Cowboys struggle to draft good DBs

[Cowboyz88]

I said it at the time and I'll say it again…as a Tech alum, I have no idea what anyone (read: Cowboys scouts and/or coaches) saw in Jamar Wall.

I thought he was very pedestrian at Tech and was shocked that he was drafted at all, much less by my favorite pro team.

That said and to be fair, he has acclimated fairly well to the CFL.

 

[perrykemp]

So, we've drafted four cornerbacks in the first three rounds since 2003. One is Byron Jones. Two of the other three made the Pro Bowl for us. I'd say that's a pretty good success rate.

It's all how you view the data and the sample size Adam.

Another more pessimistic view of it is that the Cowboys have drafted no players who were <originally> selected to the Probowl in the last 10 years.

Jenkins made it in as an injury alternate for Antoine Winfield in 2009 which is nice but the fact was he wasn't considered good enough to be one of the original pro-bowl selections.

 

[casmith07]

snip

Two comments from me:

1. I think the Cowboys do a good job of scouting talent at DB, however, I think most of the time players have gone before our selections.

2. I think the lack of finding "good DBs" had a lot to do with the Defensive Backs coach and the defensive staff for a large stretch of our franchise's history outside of the Terence Newman selection.

 

[theogt]

When you only draft 4 players in the first 3 rounds over an 11 year period, yeah, I'd say your results are going to look bad.

 

[casmith07]

I think everyone can agree our DB position has been a glaring weakness for years....

...Im just hoping with the selection of Byron we are taking a step forward

No. The DB position hasn't been a "glaring weakness." There isn't really a whole lot that has separated our defensive backs from the rest of the league. The Seahawks have a head-and-shoulders better secondary than anyone else, but that's an anomaly in today's NFL.

The change in emphasis on officiating along with the addition of the absurd illegal contact penalty has essentially negated DB as a key position that you can really have as a strength in the league. That the Seahawks are able to do what they do in the NFL now is a testament to 1) their pass rush and 2) they do in fact have better (or they did, rather) safeties and corners than the rest of the league.

I think we'll see marked improvement from our bunch this year with the addition of two elite (yes, Gregory will be elite) pass rush players and upgrades at linebacker.

 

[Galian Beast]

I think this defense stagnated because of the direction it took.

We had Greg Ellis, and then we got DeMarcus Ware... but we also switched the 3-4 and then Ellis had to pack his backs.

We then got Carpenter to complement Ware.... Have no idea why, dude was never a pass rusher in college. As a result we had to spend ANOTHER first round draft pick on outside linebacker and we got Spencer. It took a while for Spencer to really come along, but when both he and Ware were on, we were pretty good, the problem is you need more than just two pass rushers to be successful in this league. They wore down pretty quickly.

They never made a great attempt to find another pass rusher to help spell them. All the while drafting tight ends in the 2nd round and ignoring the fact that the secondary was being exposed. Note that we also kept spending pretty high draft picks on running backs and traded away the farm for Roy Williams. Meanwhile for the most part we also ignored the offensive line, but that is neither here nor there.

The problem is we relied completely on Ware to produce on this defense, and when he didn't the team suffered. We were lucky with Ratliff and Hatcher finally developed, but none of it was enough.

 

[Zekeats]

No more than 4 pro bowl seasons? That's actually a huge difference. That is more than 2x the pro bowl seasons over the same duration of time...

Yeah with 4 times the amount of draft picks in rounds 1-3.....factoring in that the amount of seasons started is a wash and factor in that the Patriots had 12-4 seasons every year as opposed to 7-9 seasons which means more notification to make more pro bowls.

 

[lostar2009]

This is why I don't trust the secondary coaches. We've never had great secondary coaches, and they've really never surprised me. The only player I'd say they've successfully developed is Scandrick and it's not as if he were a richard sherman level corner.

Scandrick came from Bosie state we had some good luck with those players, one reason why I wanted Ajayi in the 3rd or 4th.

 

[Galian Beast]

Two comments from me:

1. I think the Cowboys do a good job of scouting talent at DB, however, I think most of the time players have gone before our selections.

2. I think the lack of finding "good DBs" had a lot to do with the Defensive Backs coach and the defensive staff for a large stretch of our franchise's history outside of the Terence Newman selection.

If we had a top flight pass rush, I think both Newman and Jenkins probably end up being perennial pro bowlers.

I also think we had poor coaching, and still do. I think Henderson is the worst coach on the team. Doesn't get players to play the ball at all, never get their heads turned around.

 

[Galian Beast]

Yeah with 4 times the amount of draft picks in rounds 1-3.....factoring in that the amount of seasons started is a wash and factor in that the Patriots had 12-4 seasons every year as opposed to 7-9 seasons which means more notification to make more pro bowls.

You're also forgetting that they pick later than us as well...

 

[Galian Beast]

Scandrick came from Bosie state we had some good luck with those players, one reason why I wanted Ajayi in the 3rd or 4th.

We have zero luck with LSU

 

[Cowboyz88]

…Doesn't get players to play the ball at all, never get their heads turned around.

Perhaps I'm overstating things, but it feels like it's been that way for years, perhaps decades.

 

[casmith07]

If we had a top flight pass rush, I think both Newman and Jenkins probably end up being perennial pro bowlers.

I also think we had poor coaching, and still do. I think Henderson is the worst coach on the team. Doesn't get players to play the ball at all, never get their heads turned around.

I agree with part 1.

Part 2, you're wrong. Sorry. He's solely responsible for Scandrick's development of ball skills and has only been here for a few years. Carr lacks confidence, and Claiborne hasn't even been on the field enough to judge. Aside from that, he's developed Barry Church into a solid starter and appears to be doing the same with JJ Wilcox.

 

[Galian Beast]

Players taken 4(5)-7 should not be expected to become starters. They should be at best expected to become quality depth given enough time to develop.

But when you only use those picks to fill out a position group... you're asking for trouble.

 

[Galian Beast]

Perhaps I'm overstating things, but it feels like it's been that way for years, perhaps decades.

I mean, I'm sure it's also how long they're asked to cover for. I want to say we've had a poor pass rush for years, and I think that has caused our secondary to play accordingly. Try not to get beat deep and avoid the big play. I think that plays with the confidence of a defensive back.

This is the first year in a long time where I think the DBs are going to be allowed to play aggressively and they should have the pass rush to make the aggressiveness pay dividends.

 

[Redball Express]

It is the same for 98% of teams.......all of the pics are 4th round or later besides Newman, Jenkins, Claiborne and Wilcox. Anything after the 2nd round is a crap shoot and for every Richard Sherman there are 1,000 DeAngelo Smiths. This could be said for any team for any position and I think you may have just wasted your time.

I also thnk the constant changing of DCs has radically wounded the secondary.

First Bill Parcells, then what..Dave Campo and then Rob Ryan and then Marinelli and his predicessor OLD MAN Time..

Not to mention the changing around from 3-4 to 4-3 overall.

I don't care what anybody says..

Being a DB in either scheme is NOT the same.

It can't be.

The LBer coverages have to be different.

The safety responsibilities have to be different.

The secondary coverage calls HAVE to be different.

So stay with a scheme and go forward and draft players to fit that scheme.

We are only now doing it.

 

[Zekeats]

No more than 4 pro bowl seasons? That's actually a huge difference. That is more than 2x the pro bowl seasons over the same duration of time...

No its not. Take away one player, Asante Samuel and its a push......actually we would lead with more seasons started with less players drafted and doing so with 8 less selections in rounds 1-3.

 

[Galian Beast]

I agree with part 1.

Part 2, you're wrong. Sorry. He's solely responsible for Scandrick's development of ball skills and has only been here for a few years. Carr lacks confidence, and Claiborne hasn't even been on the field enough to judge. Aside from that, he's developed Barry Church into a solid starter and appears to be doing the same with JJ Wilcox.

Scandrick still lacks ball skills, he has terrible hands and he still does. They have improved slightly, but he still isn't great. He was always one of the more aggressive corners, but he also gets beat his fair share.

Carr lacks confidence because he is asked to take on opposing teams best receivers with no help from the secondary.

Claiborne hasn't been good even when healthy, he is beat a lot more than a top 6 draft pick should be beat. He makes plays on occasion, but is definitely beat more than he should be.

I think Wilcox had a lot more potential than any of the other guys we've drafted. Barry Church is more adequate than solid.

 

[lostar2009]

We have zero luck with LSU

Yup besides the what if with Brockers most of those guys let us down,

 

[ThreeandOut]

The 3rd CB is practically a starter these days. So any evaluation of the DB's should probably account for this as well. Scandrick's contributions in this role have made him more valuable than the two years of starting experience you show for him.