Cowboys struggle to draft good DBs

[AdamJT13]

No because we have struggled, because the investments we've actually made in the secondary have been few and far between.

Jason Hatcher was drafted as a 3-4 defensive end, and took years to develop. DeMarcus Ware and Spencer are two players, like I said earlier, you need a lot more than two players.

It's not just about drafting enough defensive backs, our numbers are almost the same as the Patriots, it's just that we haven't emphasized the position enough to put high value resources into it in the draft. As a result we've struggled to field a quality secondary consistently.

Our poor efforts in our secondary are matched by our poor efforts with pass rushers.

Sorry, I meant to say that we don't draft enough defensive backs early. In relation to where players are drafted, we have a pretty good success rate.

 

[Galian Beast]

Players who leave and play for other teams?

He was a Patriot for 5 years...

 

[Galian Beast]

Sorry, I meant to say that we don't draft enough defensive backs early. In relation to where players are drafted, we have a pretty good success rate.

Right, and my entire point is it isn't just about success rate, it's about making the investment. When you only draft players late, and you don't hit on them, and your secondary sucks as a result... you're struggling by definition...

 

[Galian Beast]

When you get a player like Romo undrafted or late in the draft, you can afford to not spend high picks on QBs. When you are missing your draft picks late on a position, you still need to invest.

 

[AdamJT13]

He was a Patriot for 5 years...

And wasn't a full-time starter until his third season, made only one Pro Bowl there, then left.

His three Pro Bowls for the Eagles didn't do the Patriots any good -- he could have had a career-ending injury in his first game for Philly and made only one Pro Bowl in his entire career, and his impact in New England would have been exactly the same.

If Murray or Spencer or Canty or Hatcher or Harris or any other player who leaves makes the Pro Bowl for his new team, that doesn't make them any better for us -- what they did for us ended the moment they walked out the door. Conversely, if Murray never gains 1,000 yards again, it doesn't make him worse for us, either.

 

[Galian Beast]

And wasn't a full-time starter until his third season, made only one Pro Bowl there, then left.

His three Pro Bowls for the Eagles didn't do the Patriots any good -- he could have had a career-ending injury in his first game for Philly and made only one Pro Bowl in his entire career, and his impact in New England would have been exactly the same.

If Murray or Spencer or Canty or Hatcher or Harris or any other player who leaves makes the Pro Bowl for his new team, that doesn't make them any better for us -- what they did for us ended the moment they walked out the door. Conversely, if Murray never gains 1,000 yards again, it doesn't make him worse for us, either.

The point of marking the pro bowls isn't even particularly to suggest that those were the players best years in particular. I'd actually say Samuels wasn't particularly great on the Eagles.

Romo for example had a great year I think in 2011 and didn't make the pro bowl.

Scandrick wasn't a full time starter this year or last year either. He was still our best corner.

It doesn't mean they were better for us, but it does speak to the quality of player we drafted.

 

[big dog cowboy]

2003 - 1st round - Terence Newman, 2 pro bowls, 11 years starting
2008 - 1st round - Mike Jenkins, 1 pro bowl, 4 years starting
2012 - 1st round - Morris Claiborne, 1 year starting
2013 - 3rd round - JJ Wilcox, 1 year starting

11 years of drafting
1st rounders - 3
2nd rounders - 0
3rd rounders - 1

Considering 4th round picks only have a 50/50 chance to make the final 53 that's actually not to bad considering only 5 premium picks were used and Mo has been mostly hurt. Very far from "struggle to draft good DB's" in my opinion.

 

[Doomsday101]

I seem to recall the same was being said about OL not that long ago. Things have been changing for the better. The job this scouting department does should be judged on it's own merits not of what took place before them

 

[Galian Beast]

I seem to recall the same was being said about OL not that long ago. Things have been changing for the better. The job this scouting department does should be judged on it's own merits not of what took place before them

I'm not sure how much turnover there has been, but I think that drafting players early allowed them to put together a good offensive line, whereas before they didn't invest any first round draft picks into the position group.

Basically my point is you can't ignore a position group and try to fill it with low drafted players. You'll end up using a lot more draft picks on these players as a result, and you'll struggle to develop players that way.

 

[Alexander]

The team should just draft 1 every year fairly high and try to continually develop them.

Good luck with that.

 

[Doomsday101]

I'm not sure how much turnover there has been, but I think that drafting players early allowed them to put together a good offensive line, whereas before they didn't invest any first round draft picks into the position group.

Basically my point is you can't ignore a position group and try to fill it with low drafted players. You'll end up using a lot more draft picks on these players as a result, and you'll struggle to develop players that way.

I think there has been significant turnover in terms of head of scouting from Ireland to now McCray. Any position we do draft people will start looking where we did not draft. OL people complained we did not draft OL. DL same thing and yet each has been addressed. This season DB went high. Fact is you only have 1 1st rd pick you can't do it all and because you did not get a certain position does not mean they are ignoring it.

 

[Galian Beast]

You've got 11 players on offense and defense.

You can't miss on your 1st round draft picks in this league, but if you hit on your 2nd and 3rd round draft picks as well, you can put together a team pretty quickly, with some free agents here and there, and hopefully you hit on some lower draft picks as well.

But when you completely ignore certain groups and keep pumping picks into the same positions (without anything to show for it) you're going to struggle.

I also think it is funny that we traded a first and a third for Roy Williams, but we won't trade 1 first round draft pick for Adrian Peterson...

 

[Galian Beast]

I think there has been significant turnover in terms of head of scouting from Ireland to now McCray. Any position we do draft people will start looking where we did not draft. OL people complained we did not draft OL. DL same thing and yet each has been addressed. This season DB went high. Fact is you only have 1 1st rd pick you can't do it all and because you did not get a certain position does not mean they are ignoring it.

You only have 1 first round draft pick, but we aren't just looking at one year here. And it isn't just about first round draft picks.

How many running backs have we drafted between rounds 1-4?
How many tight ends have we drafted between rounds 1-4?
How many linebackers have we drafted between rounds 1-4?

We wasted a ton of picks trying to find players who might fit the 3-4, we wasted a lot of time on tight ends we never used (even though they were all good players), we wasted time drafting running back after running back after passing on steven jackson....

 

[Phoenix]

2009
5th round - DeAngelo Smith, 0 years starting
5th round - Michael Hamlin, 0 years starting
6th round - Stephen Hodge, 0 years starting
7th round - Mike Mickens, 0 years starting

Let me just say how absolutely terrible this draft was. 12 draft picks, not a single starter (for our team)

Buehler, David disagrees

 

[Doomsday101]

You only have 1 first round draft pick, but we aren't just looking at one year here. And it isn't just about first round draft picks.

How many running backs have we drafted between rounds 1-4?
How many tight ends have we drafted between rounds 1-4?
How many linebackers have we drafted between rounds 1-4?

We wasted a ton of picks trying to find players who might fit the 3-4, we wasted a lot of time on tight ends we never used (even though they were all good players), we wasted time drafting running back after running back after passing on steven jackson....

The fact that we have used 1st rd on guys like Claiborne and it has not worked out is a major setback but it is not ignoring. The same could be said about Tyron Smith, Frederick and Martin had any of those picks failed it would have been a major setback. Fact is Dallas has been accused since I have been at this sight of we don't draft OL, recently We don't draft DL and now we don't draft CB. No matter what position we pick someone is going to say why didn't we get this position. Dallas used a 1st and a expensive FA picking up in 2012 had it worked as they had hoped we would not even be talking about it.
This season who did we draft in the 1st rd? Sorry this is not a case of ignoring a position

 

[Galian Beast]

The fact that we have used 1st rd on guys like Claiborne and it has not worked out is a major setback but it is not ignoring. The same could be said about Tyron Smith, Frederick and Martin had any of those picks failed it would have been a major setback. Fact is Dallas has been accused since I have been at this sight of we don't draft OL, recently We don't draft DL and now we don't draft CB. No matter what position we pick someone is going to say why didn't we get this position. Dallas used a 1st and a expensive FA picking up in 2012 had it worked as they had hoped we would not even be talking about it.
This season who did we draft in the 1st rd? Sorry this is not a case of ignoring a position

You're confusing time periods here.

For a long time the Cowboys did struggle to get offensive linemen with picks in rounds 2-4, and never went for them in round 1. That changed recently, and we've see the results, but that doesn't change the fact that our oline trouble and salary cap trouble was related to the fact that we didn't invest 1st round picks into the line, and that we missed on picks in rounds 2-4 and failed develop players from rounds 5-7....

 

[Doomsday101]

You're confusing time periods here.

For a long time the Cowboys did struggle to get offensive linemen with picks in rounds 2-4, and never went for them in round 1. That changed recently, and we've see the results, but that doesn't change the fact that our oline trouble and salary cap trouble was related to the fact that we didn't invest 1st round picks into the line, and that we missed on picks in rounds 2-4 and failed develop players from rounds 5-7....

and so are you, we have had different people in charge of the scouting. Putting what took place in past years on a guy who was not in charge of scouting. McClay now has the job and should be judged by his own merits not that if Ireland or any other person who was here before.

 

[Galian Beast]

and so are you, we have had different people in charge of the scouting. Putting what took place in past years on a guy who was not in charge of scouting. McClay now has the job and should be judged by his own merits not that if Ireland or any other person who was here before.

It's not about putting on mcclay, but the front office is still the front office. It still represents our organization, past present and future.

There are reasons why this team hasn't been successful, and that can't be ignored.

I hope they Byron Jones works out well because Claiborne was the biggest draft miss in this teams history and that wasn't Jeff Ireland.

 

[DallasBlockersClub]

At first I was thinking the cowboys struggle because they draft too many small school kids with lack of experience and don't pick them high enough, but that doesn't tell the whole story, we missed big on Claiborne and that can't be ignored.

One could argue that we had very degrees of success with Mike Jenkins and Terence Newman, but both seemed to lose their confidence.

Ironically, I don't think the issues with the secondary have simply been due to poor drafting there, though we do have our fair share of misses. I think ultimately we've seen players in our secondary lose a lot of confidence because we've put them out on an island with no consistent pass rush help. The best years where we had pass rushes we've also had pretty good results from our secondary.

So, my conclusion is that it has been a combination of poor drafting but also ignoring our pass rush for too long relying so much on one player to be the savior of the defense.


2003
1st round - Terence Newman, 2 pro bowls, 11 years starting
6th round - BJ Tucker, 0 years starting

2004
4th round - Bruce Thornton, 1 year starting (49ers)
7th round - Nate Jones, 0 years starting
7th round - Jacques Reeves - 1 year starting

2005
6th round - Justin Beriault, 0 years starting

2006
5th round - Pat Watkins, 0 years starting

2007
7th round - Courtney Brown, 0 years starting
7th round - Alan ball, 2 years starting

2008
1st round - Mike Jenkins, 1 pro bowl, 4 years starting
5th round - Orlando Scandrick, 2 years starting

2009
5th round - DeAngelo Smith, 0 years starting
5th round - Michael Hamlin, 0 years starting
6th round - Stephen Hodge, 0 years starting
7th round - Mike Mickens, 0 years starting

Let me just say how absolutely terrible this draft was. 12 draft picks, not a single starter (for our team)

2010
4th round - Akwasi Owusu Ansah, 0 years starting
6th round - Jamar Wall, 0 years starting

2011
5th round - Josh Thomas, 0 years starting

2012
1st round - Morris Claiborne, 1 year starting
4th round - Matt Johnson, 0 years starting

2013
3rd round - JJ Wilcox, 1 year starting
4th round - BW Webb, 0 years starting

2014
7th round draft pick - Ahmad Dixon, 0 years starting
7th round draft pick - Terrance Mitchell, 0 years starting

11 years of drafting
1st rounders - 3
2nd rounders - 0
3rd rounders - 1
4th rounders - 4
5th rounders - 4
6th rounders - 4
7th rounders - 7

I would say that we can at least get starters out of the first round, even 3 pro bowl appearances, but clearly we have neglected this position group.

Good post, but in context we need to remember that with terrible defensive line play any defensive back will look bad.

 

[Doomsday101]

It's not about putting on mcclay, but the front office is still the front office. It still represents our organization, past present and future.

There are reasons why this team hasn't been successful, and that can't be ignored.

I hope they Byron Jones works out well because Claiborne was the biggest draft miss in this teams history and that wasn't Jeff Ireland.

yes and the front office relies a lot of those scouts to bring in the information. Jerry nor Stephen are just grabbing guys on a whim. People who have worked for them as BP did has said as much they listen and while I agree the buck stops with them, and if a player fails that is on the front office after all they hired the person they are getting the information from but they are also smart enough to make the change and they did that. Mo was taken when Tom Ciskowski was head of scouting that following year it changed again this time McClay who was put in place as head of scouting and his imput has been good thus far.