Cowboys struggle to draft good DBs

[Galian Beast]

Good post, but in context we need to remember that with terrible defensive line play any defensive back will look bad.

I mention the pass rush in that very post you quoted

 

[DallasBlockersClub]

Haha apologies, I recant. Speed reading, it's what I do after final exams.


Edit: after re-reading your post I laughed. You mentioned pass rush several times.





Sometimes I do wonder, though, if DB draft picks have ruined careers by going to a team with no pass rush.

 

[xwalker]

At first I was thinking the cowboys struggle because they draft too many small school kids with lack of experience and don't pick them high enough, but that doesn't tell the whole story, we missed big on Claiborne and that can't be ignored.

One could argue that we had very degrees of success with Mike Jenkins and Terence Newman, but both seemed to lose their confidence.

Ironically, I don't think the issues with the secondary have simply been due to poor drafting there, though we do have our fair share of misses. I think ultimately we've seen players in our secondary lose a lot of confidence because we've put them out on an island with no consistent pass rush help. The best years where we had pass rushes we've also had pretty good results from our secondary.

So, my conclusion is that it has been a combination of poor drafting but also ignoring our pass rush for too long relying so much on one player to be the savior of the defense.


2003
1st round - Terence Newman, 2 pro bowls, 11 years starting
6th round - BJ Tucker, 0 years starting

2004
4th round - Bruce Thornton, 1 year starting (49ers)
7th round - Nate Jones, 0 years starting
7th round - Jacques Reeves - 1 year starting

2005
6th round - Justin Beriault, 0 years starting

2006
5th round - Pat Watkins, 0 years starting

2007
7th round - Courtney Brown, 0 years starting
7th round - Alan ball, 2 years starting

2008
1st round - Mike Jenkins, 1 pro bowl, 4 years starting
5th round - Orlando Scandrick, 2 years starting

2009
5th round - DeAngelo Smith, 0 years starting
5th round - Michael Hamlin, 0 years starting
6th round - Stephen Hodge, 0 years starting
7th round - Mike Mickens, 0 years starting

Let me just say how absolutely terrible this draft was. 12 draft picks, not a single starter (for our team)

2010
4th round - Akwasi Owusu Ansah, 0 years starting
6th round - Jamar Wall, 0 years starting

2011
5th round - Josh Thomas, 0 years starting

2012
1st round - Morris Claiborne, 1 year starting
4th round - Matt Johnson, 0 years starting

2013
3rd round - JJ Wilcox, 1 year starting
4th round - BW Webb, 0 years starting

2014
7th round draft pick - Ahmad Dixon, 0 years starting
7th round draft pick - Terrance Mitchell, 0 years starting

11 years of drafting
1st rounders - 3
2nd rounders - 0
3rd rounders - 1
4th rounders - 4
5th rounders - 4
6th rounders - 4
7th rounders - 7

I would say that we can at least get starters out of the first round, even 3 pro bowl appearances, but clearly we have neglected this position group.

At first I was thinking the cowboys struggle because they draft too many small school kids with lack of experience and don't pick them high enough, but that doesn't tell the whole story, we missed big on Claiborne and that can't be ignored.

One could argue that we had very degrees of success with Mike Jenkins and Terence Newman, but both seemed to lose their confidence.

Ironically, I don't think the issues with the secondary have simply been due to poor drafting there, though we do have our fair share of misses. I think ultimately we've seen players in our secondary lose a lot of confidence because we've put them out on an island with no consistent pass rush help. The best years where we had pass rushes we've also had pretty good results from our secondary.

So, my conclusion is that it has been a combination of poor drafting but also ignoring our pass rush for too long relying so much on one player to be the savior of the defense.


2003
1st round - Terence Newman, 2 pro bowls, 11 years starting
6th round - BJ Tucker, 0 years starting

2004
4th round - Bruce Thornton, 1 year starting (49ers)
7th round - Nate Jones, 0 years starting
7th round - Jacques Reeves - 1 year starting

2005
6th round - Justin Beriault, 0 years starting

2006
5th round - Pat Watkins, 0 years starting

2007
7th round - Courtney Brown, 0 years starting
7th round - Alan ball, 2 years starting

2008
1st round - Mike Jenkins, 1 pro bowl, 4 years starting
5th round - Orlando Scandrick, 2 years starting

2009
5th round - DeAngelo Smith, 0 years starting
5th round - Michael Hamlin, 0 years starting
6th round - Stephen Hodge, 0 years starting
7th round - Mike Mickens, 0 years starting

Let me just say how absolutely terrible this draft was. 12 draft picks, not a single starter (for our team)

2010
4th round - Akwasi Owusu Ansah, 0 years starting
6th round - Jamar Wall, 0 years starting

2011
5th round - Josh Thomas, 0 years starting

2012
1st round - Morris Claiborne, 1 year starting
4th round - Matt Johnson, 0 years starting

2013
3rd round - JJ Wilcox, 1 year starting
4th round - BW Webb, 0 years starting

2014
7th round draft pick - Ahmad Dixon, 0 years starting
7th round draft pick - Terrance Mitchell, 0 years starting

11 years of drafting
1st rounders - 3
2nd rounders - 0
3rd rounders - 1
4th rounders - 4
5th rounders - 4
6th rounders - 4
7th rounders - 7

I would say that we can at least get starters out of the first round, even 3 pro bowl appearances, but clearly we have neglected this position group.

You really need to look at the top 3 rounds.

2003
1st round - Terence Newman, 2 pro bowls, 11 years starting
Good for several years and had a resurgence after he went to another team. Coaching might have been a problem but the scouts probably made a good pick.

2004

2005

2006

2007

2008
1st round - Mike Jenkins, 1 pro bowl, 4 years starting
Was reasonably good on the field. They didn't do a good enough job evaluating his mental makeup.

2009

2010

2011

2012
1st round - Morris Claiborne, 1 year starting
Failed due to mental makeup. Obviously by far the worst pick.

2013
3rd round - JJ Wilcox, 1 year starting
Has been good for a 3rd rounder.

2014

 

[JoeKing]

31 other teams would have made the same mistake with Claiborne so you can't put that failure on the Cowboys... it belongs to Claiborne alone.

 

[NinePointOh]

And wasn't a full-time starter until his third season, made only one Pro Bowl there, then left.

His three Pro Bowls for the Eagles didn't do the Patriots any good -- he could have had a career-ending injury in his first game for Philly and made only one Pro Bowl in his entire career, and his impact in New England would have been exactly the same.

If Murray or Spencer or Canty or Hatcher or Harris or any other player who leaves makes the Pro Bowl for his new team, that doesn't make them any better for us -- what they did for us ended the moment they walked out the door. Conversely, if Murray never gains 1,000 yards again, it doesn't make him worse for us, either.

While true, as long as it's a conversation about drafting well or poorly, it's important to differentiate between a mistake made in the draft and a mistake made when re-signing your players. If Harris somehow turns into a superstar, we still drafted a player who apparently had superstar potential, so that's an extremely good draft decision. The reason he wouldn't be "any better for us" is because we didn't re-sign him (or maybe we didn't play him enough, or use him the right way), which is a separate question from who to draft.

If you're drafting a bunch of guys who go on to make lots of Pro Bowls with other teams, you probably don't need to improve your drafting first and foremost. You probably need to improve your coaching and your contract decisions.

 

[Galian Beast]

31 other teams would have made the same mistake with Claiborne so you can't put that failure on the Cowboys... it belongs to Claiborne alone.

How many teams traded up to draft Claiborne?

 

[JoeKing]

How many teams traded up to draft Claiborne?

That doesn't change the fact that no one had a bad grade on him at the time he was drafted.

 

[Alexander]

You really need to look at the top 3 rounds

Why stop there? Good CBs have been found in rounds 4-7 as well. That's where we got Scandrick for example. Not all of the starting corners in the league came out of the premium rounds.

 

[JPostSam]

that is an ugly list.