Crayton and Holley: Jason Garrett sabotaged Wade Phillips (audio)

[Alexander]

And this word "agenda" is thrown around way too much on this board. While it may not be part of the definition, I believe someone needs to have a stake in an outcome to have an "agenda." What "agenda" can someone have on a message board? How will someone benefit from this team's possible failure. I wish people like you would take that righteous indignation and level real criticism at the man that's destroyed this franchise instead of excusing his incompetence.

It is a stupid catch phrase that unfortunately has become cemented in the board vocabulary.

Don't like what someone says? Accuse them of having an "agenda".

Psst. By having a stance, any stance that you back, means you have an "agenda".

It is used so much and so out of context, it has gained its own specific definition unique to the board.

 

[Proximo]

I'm not even sure what you're getting all fired up about. Because a fan stated that the worse thing that can happen is to finish 9 and 7 and "sneak" into the playoffs? I got news for you, a lot of fans don't like that scenario. I'm all for making the playoffs and watching another week of football but the reality is that we're a very flawed team with a quality QB who is responsible for hiding some of those flaws. This team is weak in some key positions and our drafts have been questionable. Changes need to be made and this team needs direction while we still have a franchise QB under contract. It's called having a sense of urgency.

And this word "agenda" is thrown around way too much on this board. While it may not be part of the definition, I believe someone needs to have a stake in an outcome to have an "agenda." What "agenda" can someone have on a message board? How will someone benefit from this team's possible failure. I wish people like you would take that righteous indignation and level real criticism at the man that's destroyed this franchise instead of excusing his incompetence.

Wow you're going off on all sorts of tangents that have nothing to do with what I stated in this thread.

My point was that I find it disgusting that there's fans of this team that hope for our failure just so they can see someone they dislike get fired. I stand by that statement.

And I was also greatly amused by your assertion that me (or anyone else on here, for that matter) has excused Jerry's incompetence. Where the heck did you even get that from??

How you arrived at that conclusion is beyond mind boggling.

 

[birdwells1]

I was referring to a post earlier in the thread where an individual indicated that they hoped we would be unsuccessful in 2014 so that they could see Garrett gone.

My stance on Garrett is that being a rookie head coach in this organization is not a recipe for success. This team needs an established head coach with a proven track record to keep Jerry as far away from the football operations as possible. We may not know how good of a coach he can be until his next head coaching gig.

That being said if someone wants Garrett fired it's not because the dont like the person, they may think that as long as hes the coach the the Cowboys will never win the Championship. That person would have an agenda and that would be for the Cowboys to be successful again. His methods may differ from yours but you both want them to make deep playoff runs and eventually win the bowl y'all just have different ideas on how to get there.

 

[Oh_Canada]

I'm still trying to figure out why any professional of a reasonable intelligence would even consider the notion of sabotaging his own boss in order to get ahead. Especially in an industry like professional football where entre staffs are often judged as a whole and not independantly. Garrett has just as much to lose (if not more) by screwing a well-liked veteran coach of Phillips ilk. Come on people, this is nothing more than sour puss Crayton doing his best to keep himself in the national spotlight after a few years playing in annonimity and now in the dark of retirement.

 

[DragonCowboy]

Wow I love my fellow Cowboys fans. There is never a good reason for a fan to want his team to lose so you saying you hope we do bad in hopes of getting Garrett fired is the lowest of the low. If any fan, like some in this thread, are rooting against this team next season then you are no longer a fan and need to unplug and move on. Frankly its embarrassing that we have people like this that take part in representing this fan base.

When I said a sneak into the playoffs I should've also included a first round boot.

Obviously I would want this team to do well and win some playoff games but a one and done would be much more damaging to this franchise than another failure to make a playoff game and a chance at a real head coach.

So shove that "embarrassing" nonsense up your tailpipe.

 

[Proximo]

That being said if someone wants Garrett fired it's not because the dont like the person, they may think that as long as hes the coach the the Cowboys will never win the Championship.

Right. And in that case I think it would make more sense for said fan to hope Garrett can prove them wrong, instead of hoping for his failure just to see him gone.

 

[birdwells1]

I'm still trying to figure out why any professional of a reasonable intelligence would even consider the notion of sabotaging his own boss in order to get ahead. Especially in an industry like professional football where entre staffs are often judged as a whole and not independantly. Garrett has just as much to lose (if not more) by screwing a well-liked veteran coach of Phillips ilk. Come on people, this is nothing more than sour puss Crayton doing his best to keep himself in the national spotlight after a few years playing in annonimity and now in the dark of retirement.

This is correct if the head coach hired his own assistants but as we know Jerry hired Jason before he hired Wade and anointed him head coach in waiting. In theory Garrett was insulated from anything Wade did as the coach of the Cowboys.

 

[Dodger12]

I'm just hoping this ginger nightmare ends after this season. The worst thing that could happen is a 9-7 sneak into the wild card

This "ginger nightmare" is only going to end if we miss the playoffs again in 2014. Have fun hoping we miss the playoffs.

Some of this fan base is outright embarrassing.

I'm not even sure what you're getting all fired up about. Because a fan stated that the worse thing that can happen is to finish 9 and 7 and "sneak" into the playoffs?

Wow you're going off on all sorts of tangents that have nothing to do with what I stated in this thread.

My point was that I find it disgusting that there's fans of this team that hope for our failure just so they can see someone they dislike get fired. I stand by that statement.

And I was also greatly amused by your assertion that me (or anyone else on here, for that matter) has excused Jerry's incompetence. Where the heck did you even get that from?? How you arrived at that conclusion is beyond mind boggling.

Oh I don't know....maybe from your post history? You get so caught up defending even the slightest negative critique that you forget what you were even arguing about.

I didn't get that @DragonCowboy was hoping we'd lose from his post. Matter of fact, if we went 13 and 3 and showed improvement on offense, defense and drafting, I'd bet the people you're referring to in your "embarrassment" rant would give Jerry and Garrett their due. That's how things work. You succeed, you get props. You consistently fail, you get criticized. My standards for this franchise are better than .500 and to be grouped with teams like the Browns for our level of extended futility. That should be embarrassing to you or any fan of the team.

 

[birdwells1]

Right. And in that case I think it would make more sense for said fan to hope Garrett can prove them wrong, instead of hoping for his failure just to see him gone.

I agree, while I think that Garrett's over his head in Dallas, I think that he's went to Jerry and told him that if he's going to go out then he's going to do it his way and with his staff. I'm hoping for a deep run in the playoffs, depending on the off season acquisitions on defense, but like someone said a 9-7 finish with a playoff appearance is not good enough imo.

 

[Dodger12]

It is a stupid catch phrase that unfortunately has become cemented in the board vocabulary.

Don't like what someone says? Accuse them of having an "agenda".

Psst. By having a stance, any stance that you back, means you have an "agenda".

It is used so much and so out of context, it has gained its own specific definition unique to the board.

This may be the only place where that word has even gotten that sort of traction. But, as I like to say, I can appreciate people thinking outside the box with their arguments when they defend the team, it's organizational structure and leadership.

 

[BigStar]

I'm still trying to figure out why any professional of a reasonable intelligence would even consider the notion of sabotaging his own boss in order to get ahead. Especially in an industry like professional football where entre staffs are often judged as a whole and not independantly. Garrett has just as much to lose (if not more) by screwing a well-liked veteran coach of Phillips ilk. Come on people, this is nothing more than sour puss Crayton doing his best to keep himself in the national spotlight after a few years playing in annonimity and now in the dark of retirement.

BC he is next in line...once his boss is released (guaranteed)?

 

[BigStar]

This may be the only place where that word has even gotten that sort of traction. But, as I like to say, I can appreciate people thinking outside the box with their arguments when they defend the team, it's organizational structure and leadership.

Just call it a rant and make it some crazy idea...when proven right; circumstance. I have a great idea about his wheel I saw the other day

 

[Oh_Canada]

BC he is next in line...once his boss is released (guaranteed)?

Who cares? What if the team didn't respond to him at all and Jerry decides to go get a big name? He had plenty to lose. Now he is out of a job, no one would hire him because he has the reputation of being a coach killer and he'd end up teaching Phys Ed to some high school kids in Ohio.

 

[Proximo]

Oh I don't know....maybe from your post history? You get so caught up defending even the slightest negative critique that you forget what you were even arguing about.

I didn't get that @DragonCowboy was hoping we'd lose from his post. Matter of fact, if we went 13 and 3 and showed improvement on offense, defense and drafting, I'd bet the people you're referring to in your "embarrassment" rant would give Jerry and Garrett their due. That's how things work. You succeed, you get props. You consistently fail, you get criticized. My standards for this franchise are better than .500 and to be grouped with teams like the Browns for our level of extended futility. That should be embarrassing to you or any fan of the team.

Good lord you're all over the place, still talking about things I never even brought up. Bottom line: I said it's disgusting for a fan to hope we fail just so they can see a person get fired. It's indefensible and embarrassing, and my stance on that will not change.

And I'm still waiting for you to show me where I excused Jerry's incompetence. You made the assertion. Now back it up.

And finally, if you or anyone else thinks that 9-7 and a playoff appearance is "the worst thing that can happen" to this franchise at this time, then we're going to have to agree to disagree. I can think of several outcomes that would be much worse. If I have to explain why, I suspect you won't see my point anyway.

 

[Oh_Canada]

This is correct if the head coach hired his own assistants but as we know Jerry hired Jason before he hired Wade and anointed him head coach in waiting. In theory Garrett was insulated from anything Wade did as the coach of the Cowboys.

It's not like Jerry has ever changed his mind. Had Garrett been a colossal failure in that try out period there is no telling what Jerry does.

Besides, Wade has a history of losing the room over the course of his coaching career, the guy develops a culture of poor work habits, softness through his lack of detail and it eventually catches up to him. It has been the case everywhere he's been as a head coach and it reared it's ugly head again in Dallas, this had nothing to do with Jason Garrett regardless of whether he's a good coach himself or not.

 

[BoysFan4ever]

Wade write the book! I want to hear what you really think about Jason.

 

[Proximo]

I agree with this post.

You know, I have absolutely no problem with legit criticisms of this team when it's at the appropriate time and for the right reasons. However, I refuse to accept ridiculous, over the top negativity as "being a realist".

This team is an 8-8 squad right now. That means there's some good to go along with the bad. Hopefully, enough is done this offseason to get us over the hump so we can see some tangible progress.

Reading some of the stuff around here you'd think we finished last in the division at 3-13 and have no 1st round draft pick.

Sheesh.

 

[casmith07]

You know, I have absolutely no problem with legit criticisms of this team when it's at the appropriate time and for the right reasons. However, I refuse to accept ridiculous, over the top negativity as "being a realist".

This team is an 8-8 squad right now. That means there's some good to go along with the bad. Hopefully, enough is done this offseason to get us over the hump so we can see some tangible progress.

Reading some of the stuff around here you'd think we finished last in the division at 3-13 and have no 1st round draft pick.

Sheesh.

My problem has never been with legitimate criticism, but baseless/brainless criticism and whining. Disrespectful comments always piss me off, too.

I'm right there with you.

 

[birdwells1]

It's not like Jerry has ever changed his mind. Had Garrett been a colossal failure in that try out period there is no telling what Jerry does.

Besides, Wade has a history of losing the room over the course of his coaching career, the guy develops a culture of poor work habits, softness through his lack of detail and it eventually catches up to him. It has been the case everywhere he's been as a head coach and it reared it's ugly head again in Dallas, this had nothing to do with Jason Garrett regardless of whether he's a good coach himself or not.

Garrett was "ok" in that try out period, personally I didn't see enough from him to totally discount the hiring of another coach (I was screaming to go through the interview process).

I felt like Garrett got the treated like a comedian who's following another comedian that has just bombed, mediocre would seem great compared to how the 2010 season began.

 

[birdwells1]

Good lord you're all over the place, still talking about things I never even brought up. Bottom line: I said it's disgusting for a fan to hope we fail just so they can see a person get fired. It's indefensible and embarrassing, and my stance on that will not change.

And I'm still waiting for you to show me where I excused Jerry's incompetence. You made the assertion. Now back it up.

And finally, if you or anyone else thinks that 9-7 and a playoff appearance is "the worst thing that can happen" to this franchise at this time, then we're going to have to agree to disagree. I can think of several outcomes that would be much worse. If I have to explain why, I suspect you won't see my point anyway.

Actually the Texans, following a 2-14 season, are in a better position than we are. Neither team made the playoffs and they have the number 1 pick in the draft and in every round, with a roster that's just 1 season removed from the playoffs. This is the reason 8-8 and no playoffs stinks and 9-7 with 1 playoff game does us no good when we are trying to win a super bowl not make noise in the playoffs.