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[Montanalo]

Then you make them care, which is exactly what the Geneva Convention is about. At some point you folks will start to realize Hamas aren't the only savages in all of this.

I mean, we are in a real dark period where people jump through hoops to justify over a million innocent civilians being harmed intentionally. Some need to search their souls because they are wayward.

Isreal's stated objective is to disable Hamas and flatten (my words) Gaza.

You could argue, that curtailling municipal services is a humane means of driving the the civilian population out of the war zone. Time will tell.

By the way, I don't recall Hamas issuing a warning - as Isreal has done - prior to attacking.

 

[mattjames2010]

Isreal's stated objective is to disable Hamas and flatten (my words) Gaza.

You could argue, that curtailling municipal services is a humane means of driving the the civilian population out of the war zone. Time will tell.

By the way, I don't recall Hamas issuing a warning - as Isreal has done - prior to attacking.

There is no nuance in cutting off the water supply to 2 million innocent civilian. I will not have that discussion and I have already provided this is outright breaks the Geneva code. You're coping with Israel's response.

And whether Hamas gave a warning or not is irrelevant, it would have been a crime against humanity for them to do what they did either way. This, yet again, does not suddenly justify Israel's actions. Committing a war crime with another war crime is not justifiable anywhere.

Israel and Hamas are savages but only one of them gets supports in the billions.

 

[VaqueroTD]

There is no nuance in cutting off the water supply to 2 million innocent civilian. I will not have that discussion and I have already provided this is outright breaks the Geneva code. You're coping with Israel's response.

And whether Hamas gave a warning or not is irrelevant, it would have been a crime against humanity for them to do what they did either way. This, yet again, does not suddenly justify Israel's actions. Committing a war crime with another war crime is not justifiable anywhere.

Israel and Hamas are savages but only one of them gets supports in the billions.

The more scorched earth Israel's response, the more it will incite other nations. And they will definitely pursue it because like we did with 9/11, they feel they have an open invite for it since they were attacked.

I think it's likely that Lebanon and Hezbollah may get pulled in. The question is Iran. I think they could ride this whole thing out never admitting to any financial support of Hamas and may require engagement from someone else.

Iran is to Israel's 9/11 like Iraq was to us, only I think there may be more evidence for this one. Mainly financial support. There are reports of attacks from Hezbollah but thus far Lebanon and Iran not trying to engage.

I could see Saudi Arabia and others 'ally' with Israel, US, Europe against Iran. Not sure Israel has the financial and military resources though to go beyond Gaza.

Russia is too busy with Ukraine to get involved. Although I'm sure Ukraine is worried now because nations can't financially support both heavily -- Eastern Europe and the Middle East.

Interesting to see what China and others will do. I also hope China does not see the U.S. stretched in 2 areas of the world now and decides Taiwan is fair game.

Just hope cool heads prevail. And always seem to more long-term problems from these types of events than short-term solutions.

Just have to remind myself that there have always been wars and conflicts, and like the other news of the day, just because it can now be lived updated on the internet and social media, doesn't mean it's any worse.

 

[mattjames2010]

The more scorched earth Israel's response, the more it will incite other nations. And they will definitely pursue it because like we did with 9/11, they feel they have an open invite for it since they were attacked.

I think it's likely that Lebanon and Hezbollah may get pulled in. The question is Iran. I think they could ride this whole thing out never admitting to any financial support of Hamas and may require engagement from someone else.

Iran is to Israel's 9/11 like Iraq was to us, only I think there may be more evidence for this one. Mainly financial support. There are reports of attacks from Hezbollah but thus far Lebanon and Iran not trying to engage.

I could see Saudi Arabia and others 'ally' with Israel, US, Europe against Iran. Not sure Israel has the financial and military resources though to go beyond Gaza.

Russia is too busy with Ukraine to get involved. Although I'm sure Ukraine is worried now because nations can't financially support both heavily -- Eastern Europe and the Middle East.

Interesting to see what China and others will do. I also hope China does not see the U.S. stretched in 2 areas of the world now and decides Taiwan is fair game.

Just hope cool heads prevail. And always seem to more long-term problems from these types of events than short-term solutions.

Just have to remind myself that there have always been wars and conflicts, and like the other news of the day, just because it can now be lived updated on the internet and social media, doesn't mean it's any worse.

Israel is already threatening other countries, some that have no connection to this. Cooler heads won't prevail though - Netanyahu has bloodlust and always have. People have already forgotten the Israeli people were on the verge of dragging him out of office before this happened. His days are numbered.

(Reminder that Israel owes us billions of dollars for the Iraq fiasco, but that's a topic for a different time)

 

[Flamma]

Then you make them care, which is exactly what the Geneva Convention is about. At some point you folks will start to realize Hamas aren't the only savages in all of this.

I mean, we are in a real dark period where people jump through hoops to justify over a million innocent civilians being harmed intentionally. Some need to search their souls because they are wayward.

I'm not going to tell another country how to protect their people. A country can't put their own people at risk for the sake of their enemy's people. The idea would be to protect your first, like we did against Japan.

 

[mattjames2010]

I'm not going to tell another country how to protect their people. A country can't put their own people at risk for the sake of their enemy's people. The idea would be to protect your first, like we did against Japan.

Nearly every single expert will tell you our actions with Japan were unneeded - and I'm almost positive the US has recognized this over the years.

I just think a few of you commenting here simply dug yourself into a hole and are just now realizing what you're saying is incredibly stupid and, frankly, disgusting. Displacing and mass murdering a large amount of a certain people is genocide by definition.

 

[Flamma]

Nearly every single expert will tell you our actions with Japan were unneeded - and I'm almost positive the US has recognized this over the years.

I just think a few of you commenting here simply dug yourself into a hole and are just now realizing what you're saying is incredibly stupid and, frankly, disgusting. Displacing and mass murdering a large amount of a certain people is genocide by definition.

Those actions saved American lives. There's no disputing that.

 

[mattjames2010]

Those actions saved American lives. There's no disputing that.

The war was already winding down by the time we dropped those bombs. But the comparison here isn't apt. The better comparison is our response to 9/11. How did that work out for the US?

 

[Flamma]

The war was already winding down by the time we dropped those bombs. But the comparison here isn't apt. The better comparison is our response to 9/11. How did that work out for the US?

I'm just talking about actions that are meant to protect your own. We don't know what Israel has in mind. It may be that they want to clear Gaza completely. What they're doing could be one step towards that.

 

[mattjames2010]

I'm just talking about actions that are meant to protect your own. We don't know what Israel has in mind. It may be that they want to clear Gaza completely. What they're doing could be one step towards that.

9/11 was about "protecting our own" - it cost us a trillion dollars, thousands of American lives, estimated million in the ME. We got a couple terrorist along the way though....while the Taliban are stronger than ever today.

Israel is going to create a whole new generation of terrorists.

 

[VaqueroTD]

Nearly every single expert will tell you our actions with Japan were unneeded - and I'm almost positive the US has recognized this over the years.

I just think a few of you commenting here simply dug yourself into a hole and are just now realizing what you're saying is incredibly stupid and, frankly, disgusting. Displacing and mass murdering a large amount of a certain people is genocide by definition.

That’s not true at all. There have been attempts to make this revisionist history but no one has ever been able to fully prove this.

Without getting into the long cases and what we can and cannot establish, I’ll just leave it with common sense which is the Japanese were not afraid to kamikaze, including several Japanese Generals! They aggressively resisted takeover of every single island in the Pacific regardless of odds, with residents even finding hidden Japanese soldiers in the jungles who refused to surrender decades after the war was over. The military controlled the government and was ruled by the centuries old code of Bushido - never surrender, never be captured. The civilian politicians who did want to surrender could not convince the military until BOTH atomic bombs and Russian intervention from the mainland.

 

[mattjames2010]

That’s not true at all. There have been attempts to make this revisionist history but no one has ever been able to fully prove this.

Without getting into the long cases and what we can and cannot establish, I’ll just leave it with common sense which is the Japanese were not afraid to kamikaze, including several Japanese Generals! They aggressively resisted takeover of every single island in the Pacific regardless of odds, with residents even finding hidden Japanese soldiers in the jungles who refused to surrender decades after the war was over. The military controlled the government and was ruled by the centuries old code of Bushido - never surrender, never be captured. The civilian politicians who did want to surrender could not convince the military until BOTH atomic bombs and Russian intervention from the mainland.

Nothing I said was disputed by you - historians will outright tell you that atomic bombs were unneeded. They didn't change the outcome of the war because it was already becoming one sided by that point and winding down. Not to mention, there were already OTHER ways to go about this that we chose not to do.

There is reason why so many are pushing for a public apology from the US when visiting Japan.

 

[VaqueroTD]

Nothing I said was disputed by you - historians will outright tell you that atomic bombs were unneeded. They didn't change the outcome of the war because it was already becoming one sided by that point and winding down. Not to mention, there were already OTHER ways to go about this that we chose not to do.

There is reason why so many are pushing for a public apology from the US when visiting Japan.

Key word - SOME historians will tell you. Stop acting like this is fact, or even that a majority of historians believe it was unnecessary.

Me personally, I think most of it has to do with the ethical dilemma of nuclear weapons. I think some people believe if a bomb hadn't gone off, the world would be different, and are reaching for any reason.

That's ridiculous, the technology was coming regardless, and I'm just glad the USA was the first one to use it. Imagine **** Germany, Imperial Japan, or Stalin's USSR as the first ones with the decisions.

Not trying to derail the Israel debate, but I think if you are to have credibility on your Israel arguments, you need to have other historical war arguments correct.

 

[mattjames2010]

Key word - SOME historians will tell you. Stop acting like this is fact, or even that a majority of historians believe it was unnecessary.

Me personally, I think most of it has to do with the ethical dilemma of nuclear weapons. I think some people believe if a bomb hadn't gone off, the world would be different, and are reaching for any reason.

That's ridiculous, the technology was coming regardless, and I'm just glad the USA was the first one to use it. Imagine **** Germany, Imperial Japan, or Stalin's USSR as the first ones with the decisions.

Not trying to derail the Israel debate, but I think if you are to have credibility on your Israel arguments, you need to have other historical war arguments correct.

This is off-topic. I'm not getting into an entire debate about military strategy in a nearly 100 year old war. Drop it.

 

[Flamma]

This is my best guess. Israel will occupy Gaza for the foreseeable future at best. At worst, Israel will displace all those within and claim Gaza for their own. This has been a recurring theme throughout the decades. Israel gets attacked, and Israel takes more land.

 

[VaqueroTD]

This is off-topic. I'm not getting into an entire debate about military strategy in a nearly 100 year old war. Drop it.

Drop it? I didn’t bring it up, you did. And like Israel, it’s a moral issue as much as military strategy, so it needs to be correct to establish credibility with your other moral quandaries with the Israel/Palestine fight. You very easily glossed over some misinformation.

 

[mattjames2010]

Drop it? I didn’t bring it up, you did. And like Israel, it’s a moral issue as much as military strategy, so it needs to be correct to establish credibility with your other moral quandaries with the Israel/Palestine fight. You very easily glossed over some misinformation.

I didn't bring up Japan. Reread the conversation.

 

[Flamma]

I didn't bring up Japan. Reread the conversation.

I did. Because it was an action taken to save the lives of American troops. Troops that would have had to make a landing on Japan. They didn't have to as a result of our decisions.

I'm pretty sure Israel is going to make a similar decision to protect their own people. Without nukes of course.

 

[mattjames2010]

I did. Because it was an action taken to save the lives of American troops. Troops that would have had to make a landing on Japan. They didn't have to as a result of our decisions.

I'm pretty sure Israel is going to make a similar decision to protect their own people. Without nukes of course.

No just funneling 2 million people into one area and dropping bombs and starving the rest.

 

[Flamma]

No just funneling 2 million people into one area and dropping bombs and starving the rest.

I don't know their intentions. But Gaza will never be the same. Not a chance. My money goes on Gaza being depopulated.