Dak’s improved deep ball is way more important than any play call change

[G2]

Ratings for both for the last 5 years:

2018: 2. Brees 5. Rothy
2017: 2. Rothy 3. Brees
2016: 3. Rothy 5. Brees
2015: 3. Rothy 5. Brees
2014: 5. Rothy 6. Brees

Yes, I'm fully aware that everyone has different rating services that they believe in. This is mine. It's from Lindy's. Some of these years, Pocket Passers were separated from Mobile Qb's. That's why you see them rated so highly in some years.

Until this last season, most rating services I saw had Rothy over Brees, for the reasons I previously mentioned.

BTW, I consider these two Qb's to be very close. Brees is much more consistent, but Ben is more clutch and has an amazing ability to extend plays.

Some of the coffin nails he has driven have been pretty sick. In big games too.

 

[PAPPYDOG]

I have to disagree since I believe Dak's long ball is fine.

 

[Whirlwin]

Actually I think it's an intermediate past that needs the most work. Over the linebacker before the corner. I don't see any issue with this deep-ball whatsoever. Maybe a little more are under the ball maybe not

 

[Whirlwin]

Red zone offense was the problem with the offensive coordinator.

We lost our starting tight end. Wide receiver. And Elliot was gas by the time he took us there. Lot of reasons red zones was an issue. I think Jason Witten is going to make a difference this season. I know he hasn't been the touchdown machine in the past. But it was Prescott that threw him his first-ever playoff touchdown catch

 

[percyhoward]

Brees is much more consistent, but Ben is more clutch and has an amazing ability to extend plays.

Ben holds the ball longer and takes more deep shots, but that's a difference in style -- not something that makes him better or worse. Ben's (or Wilson's) ability to extend plays doesn't put them ahead of QB like Brees and Brady who get rid of it quicker. It doesn't matter how long the QB holds the ball, it's the result of the play that counts. Brees' ability to get the ball out quickly and decisively is probably what makes him so much better in the red zone (1st) than Ben (25th) since 2014.

And I'm not talking about "rating services," I'm drawing my own conclusions from attempts, completions, yards, TD, and INT. Brady vs Brees is a tossup, but they're both clearly a tier above Ben since 2014. Antonio Brown's QB ranked 25th in the red zone over the last five years. Think about that.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

Kellen Moore gets all the hype but the real MVP of the offseason to me is what Kitna is doing with Daks deep ball.

Even in last years “boring offense” there were easily 7 or 8 gimme TDs there that were just missed like Beasley vs the Falcons, Olawale vs Colts and how many bombs to Gallup.

Just connect on the bombs and everything changes. Whole every offense could use some updates, Daks deep ball changes everything.

Remember the great saints averaged 19 ppg the rest of the year starting vs Dallas and the Rams were nothing like their old selves once Krupp went down.

Moore having shifts will do more for the running game IMO because it moves the LBs when Zeke can cut it back.

Couldn't be more wrong

Dak was league average on deep throws last year
Our offensive scheme and game plan was either the worst or close to it

Not that difficult

 

[xwalker]

Kellen Moore gets all the hype but the real MVP of the offseason to me is what Kitna is doing with Daks deep ball.

Even in last years “boring offense” there were easily 7 or 8 gimme TDs there that were just missed like Beasley vs the Falcons, Olawale vs Colts and how many bombs to Gallup.

Just connect on the bombs and everything changes. Whole every offense could use some updates, Daks deep ball changes everything.

Remember the great saints averaged 19 ppg the rest of the year starting vs Dallas and the Rams were nothing like their old selves once Krupp went down.

Moore having shifts will do more for the running game IMO because it moves the LBs when Zeke can cut it back.

The numbers the Red Zone TD% as a bigger problem than Deep Passing.

The Cowboys were 28th in Red Zone TD% (TDs as a percent of offensive attempts).

The Cowboys were 11th in 4th quarter Explosive Plays on Offense (17th for all quarters).

 

[zenmastersauce]

If we take twice as many deep shots and hit them at the same percentage (which was about league average), it will help the offense to a degree. But remember (or realize), this offense with Cooper had no problem getting into scoring position in 2018. The problem was scoring once we were there.

2018
After trade for Cooper (Cowboys' NFL rank)
TOP per drive -- 1st
plays per drive -- 1st
yards per drive -- 7th
% of drives that reached red zone -- 7th
red zone TD% -- 29th

Teams don't make a living by scoring TD with the deep ball. 75% of all TD are scored from the red zone. So it's not really a true/false question, it's a multiple choice that has to include red zone offense.

Agreed. People tend to forget what the playoffs are really about. Every year its all about the high flying offense that does this this and that. Look where that got the Rams and Chiefs last year. I am not saying its not important but in the playoffs those deep balls are far and few in between. You have to grind it out more and be able to score in the very tight windows and tough coverage. That is what this team should be focusing on improving because that can help them win a chip.

 

[kskboys]

Ben holds the ball longer and takes more deep shots, but that's a difference in style -- not something that makes him better or worse. Ben's (or Wilson's) ability to extend plays doesn't put them ahead of QB like Brees and Brady who get rid of it quicker. It doesn't matter how long the QB holds the ball, it's the result of the play that counts. Brees' ability to get the ball out quickly and decisively is probably what makes him so much better in the red zone (1st) than Ben (25th) since 2014.

And I'm not talking about "rating services," I'm drawing my own conclusions from attempts, completions, yards, TD, and INT. Brady vs Brees is a tossup, but they're both clearly a tier above Ben since 2014. Antonio Brown's QB ranked 25th in the red zone over the last five years. Think about that.

Actually, you're not drawing your own conclusions. You're using strictly stats.

Everything matters. Stats matter, clutch matters, playoff success matters, everything.

You keep on insisting how most awesome your opinion is, but the only argument I've seen from you is derision and petty stuff. And completely discounting other experts' opinions clearly shows your bias and self absorption. Why should I do any more homework, you've made up your mind and don't pay attention to any facts thrown your way. Your argument is "Stats say so." That's it, that's all you got. Doesn't matter that Ben was considered better by many, you don't think so, so it doesn't count.

That's OK, though, you're starting to really amuse me. Throw your stats thing back at me now to make yourself feel better!!!!!!!!!

 

[percyhoward]

Your argument is "Stats say so." That's it, that's all you got. Doesn't matter that Ben was considered better by many, you don't think so, so it doesn't count.

Yes, what somebody else thinks does count. But not because of who they are, or the position they hold, or even because of how many of them say it, but because they can back it up.

I think the way to do that is objectively -- with actual evidence. Unless you want it all to boil down to a chaotic matter of preference, you kinda have to acknowledge what's actually happened on the field. Opinions are a dime a dozen. Informed opinion relies on facts. Knowledge of the facts is essential for any debate worth spending time on.

 

[percyhoward]

I am not saying its not important but in the playoffs those deep balls are far and few in between. You have to grind it out more and be able to score in the very tight windows and tough coverage.

Even in the regular season, 75% of all TD are scored from the red zone.

And you're right. In the postseason it goes up to 79%.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

Let's just drop it. We all know Brees is better than BB, especially in the last five years.

Lindy's is consistently wrong, and wrong here too. Lindy's say's Ben is better when it's close or better in tbe playoffs, that's been proven wrong and isn't true. Not only does Ben perform worse, but the offense around him also performs worse than Brees' despite Brees having less talent around him during that time.

Let's move on.

 

[xwalker]

Well, do some research because Aikman was not good on the deep balls and rarely threw them. I’m old enough that I saw every play he made as a Cowboy. The deep throw was not his forte.

Yes, in the Super Bowl seasons he didn't throw a lot of deep passes.

He started throwing deep more later. His accuracy on deep throws was probably about league average; whereas, his overall accuracy was possibly the best ever.

 

[xwalker]

Naw, I know a good QB when I see one.

I don't know if you are intentionally being funny or if you're serious.

Statements like "I know when I see it" or "I saw it with my own eyes, I don't need stats", etc. have bee used so often by clueless people at CZ that it's become an inside joke almost like "Let's trade Dexter Coakley...".

 

[Rockport]

I don't know if you are intentionally being funny or if you're serious.

Statements like "I know when I see it" or "I saw it with my own eyes, I don't need stats", etc. have bee used so often by clueless people at CZ that it's become an inside joke almost like "Let's trade Dexter Coakley...".

I don’t know if you remember Romo’s first preseason game ever. He was playing in the 4th quarter and dissed Parcells and called his own number and won the game. I knew then that he ha Moxie and was going to be an excellent QB. With Dak, it was apparent to me in preseason and then early in his first year that had the intangibles to be a great QB. He never gave up, ever. His leadership was apparent. There are a lot clueless people at CZ who live in the negative and focus only on that and what they here from the national media. It takes a lot more than talent to be a great NFL. You remember Ryan Leaf, Jamarcus Russell, Akili Smith, Paxton Lynch, Heath Shuler, David Kingler, etc. etc. etc.

 

[atlantacowboy]

Kellen Moore gets all the hype but the real MVP of the offseason to me is what Kitna is doing with Daks deep ball.

Even in last years “boring offense” there were easily 7 or 8 gimme TDs there that were just missed like Beasley vs the Falcons, Olawale vs Colts and how many bombs to Gallup.

Just connect on the bombs and everything changes. Whole every offense could use some updates, Daks deep ball changes everything.

Remember the great saints averaged 19 ppg the rest of the year starting vs Dallas and the Rams were nothing like their old selves once Krupp went down.

Moore having shifts will do more for the running game IMO because it moves the LBs when Zeke can cut it back.

You can't just claim his deep ball has improved when he's throwing in shorts and a t-shirt against nobody.

 

[xwalker]

I don’t know if you remember Romo’s first preseason game ever. He was playing in the 4th quarter and dissed Parcells and called his own number and won the game. I knew then that he ha Moxie and was going to be an excellent QB. With Dak, it was apparent to me in preseason and then early in his first year that had the intangibles to be a great QB. He never gave up, ever. His leadership was apparent. There are a lot clueless people at CZ who live in the negative and focus only on that and what they here from the national media. It takes a lot more than talent to be a great NFL. You remember Ryan Leaf, Jamarcus Russell, Akili Smith, Paxton Lynch, Heath Shuler, David Kingler, etc. etc. etc.

I'm not certain how that relates to my post.

FYI:

My girlfriend said during the preseason back then (before Romo was a starter) that Romo would win the QB position at some point.
She is a Packer's fan but does not know a LT from a DT or a TE from a WR (It was obvious that Romo had something).​

Back to my original post, the "I saw it myself, don't need..." comment has become common among people that can't support their argument with any facts or convincing details.

The "I saw it myself" concept is very similar to the wimpy kid that tells the bully "my Dad is going to beat up your Dad".

I've seen some people quote it sarcastically; therefore, I'm unclear if you were being serious or sarcastic.

 

[Rockport]

I'm not certain how that relates to my post.

FYI:

My girlfriend said during the preseason back then (before Romo was a starter) that Romo would win the QB position at some point.
She is a Packer's fan but does not know a LT from a DT or a TE from a WR (It was obvious that Romo had something).​

Back to my original post, the "I saw it myself, don't need..." comment has become common among people that can't support their argument with any facts or convincing details.

The "I saw it myself" concept is very similar to the wimpy kid that tells the bully "my Dad is going to beat up your Dad".

I've seen some people quote it sarcastically; therefore, I'm unclear if you were being serious or sarcastic.

Well, I stand by my post. You see what you want to see I guess.

 

[Corso]

I'm not certain how that relates to my post.

FYI:

My girlfriend said during the preseason back then (before Romo was a starter) that Romo would win the QB position at some point.
She is a Packer's fan but does not know a LT from a DT or a TE from a WR (It was obvious that Romo had something).​

Back to my original post, the "I saw it myself, don't need..." comment has become common among people that can't support their argument with any facts or convincing details.

The "I saw it myself" concept is very similar to the wimpy kid that tells the bully "my Dad is going to beat up your Dad".

I've seen some people quote it sarcastically; therefore, I'm unclear if you were being serious or sarcastic.

Well, I stand by my post. You see what you want to see I guess.

I liked the background...
Very cool X!

 

[RoboQB]

Nope. It was his only weakness. They had so many weapons that he didn’t have to throw deep often. It was a timing offense and the vast majority of his throws were intermediate throws where he was one of the best.

So not so much a weakness but more like a rare occurrence.
Frankly, I don't recall Troy missing on many deep passes
when the target was open.