Dak: Don't plan on being 3-5. However, that's up to the front office. You know what I mean

[CowboyFrog]

So did Tyron Smith ....... who played a harder position.

not really, back then DE's didnt really move that much..Williams had great wars with great DE's i still love watching him play against Reggie and how he gets him so pissed the preacher is cursing on the field...

 

[zrinkill]

sure and he lucked into 2 pretty good QB's if not for that think of how bad this thing would really look...30 years of Quincy, Leaf, Hutch, Money Manziel...maybe that would have brought correction sooner but who knows..Jerry is who he is..and he is the problem..

Of course he is ........ he picks the wrong players to pay and support ........ he Gm's like a fan with pet cats instead of making football decisions based off football.

 

[Whiskey Cowboy]

Absolutely 100% heck no

Troy or Roger never carried their team because they never were asked too , there's no way unless you had a time machine to bring Romo and Prescott back to those Eras and put them on Troy and Rogers teams you know both of which had some of the best talent and coaching Staffs ever assembled the run game you know Emmitt Smith, Tony Dorsett ,and many others along with an offensive line and a defense one had a name they had a moniker which fit the doomsday defense, they literally had some coaching Staffs again some of the best that were ever assembled and you're sitting here thinking that Troy or Roger can just some of these very incomplete teams and emphatically without a doubt wins a SB, i say no they could not.

Agree to disagree. Maybe Troy doesnt win a Lombardi, but im sure he wins more than 2 playoff games with the talent that's been assembled over the last decade. Troy was an exceptional leader and wouldn't have tolerated the constant post season meltdowns that we've seen from Tony and Dak. The man knew how to elevate his teammates. He knew how to win when it mattered. To compare him to Dak or Tony is laughable at best. He had a great supporting cast, but a great supporting cast won't win you three championships in 4 years. Jim Kelly went to 4 straight, but couldn't bring home the prize. He was one of the greatest to ever play the position. Put him on some of the more talented teams of this generation and the Cowboys aren't the laughing stock of the last decade.

 

[Chasing6]

The argument about the Cowboys in the 90's was always who made who better.

Was Emmitt so good or was it because of Moose and the OLine. Was the OLine so good or was it because of Emmitt's vision and finding the holes.

Was our passing game good because the defense had to be so focused on stopping Emmitt or was it because of Irvin, Troy, etc.

Was our defense that good or was it because our offense had the ball for 35 minutes a game and was playing with a lead?

You could go on and on and on arguing about this just as a Cowboy fans. Never mind trying to listen to Detroit fans try to explain why Barry Sanders was a better RB.

In my opinion, it all started with Emmitt Smith. Emmitt was the Catalyst. He set the tone. When he played well we typically won. If he did not play or was contained we lost more than 50% of the time.

 

[Chasing6]

I have said many times I liked the young version of Dak who did not have great stats ...... but would fight till the end.

The crippled and scared guy we have now does not compare to that kid.

Sorry to inform you, QB's do tend to play scared on soft teams.

 

[CowboyFrog]

Agree to disagree. Maybe Troy doesnt win a Lombardi, but im sure he wins more than 2 playoff games with the talent that's been assembled over the last decade. Troy was an exceptional leader and wouldn't have tolerated the constant post season meltdowns that we've seen from Tony and Dak. The man knew how to elevate his teammates. He knew how to win when it mattered. To compare him to Dak or Tony is laughable at best. He had a great supporting cast, but a great supporting cast won't win you three championships in 4 years. Jim Kelly went to 4 straight, but couldn't bring home the prize. He was one of the greatest to ever play the position. Put him on some of the more talented teams of this generation and the Cowboys aren't the laughing stock of the last decade.

thats easy to say because we remeber the good years..Troy did play with "Jerry Built" incomplete teams and didnt fair so well either...I love Troy, i rank him right with Roger at the top of our QB list...but just like Romo we tend to remeber only the good times...NO QB has come close to winning with a "Jerry's Way" team because the teams are not built to win...

Troy doesnt have a magic bottle that fills in the empty spots on the team Jerry leaves every year for almost 30 years now...

Defensive Starters
LDE	Tony Tolbert	26	4	16	7.5 sacks, 0 interceptions, 0 fumbles recovered
LDT	Tony Casillas	30	7	14	2.0 sacks, 0 interceptions, 1 fumble recovered
RDT	Russell Maryland*	24	2	12	2.5 sacks, 0 interceptions, 2 fumbles recovered
RDE	Charles Haley	29	7	11	4.0 sacks, 0 interceptions, 1 fumble recovered
LLB	Dixon Edwards	25	2	15	1.5 sacks, 0 interceptions, 1 fumble recovered
MLB	Ken Norton Jr.*	27	5	16	2.0 sacks, 1 interception, 1 fumble recovered
RLB	Darrin Smith	23	Rook	13	1.0 sacks, 0 interceptions, 1 fumble recovered
LCB	Kevin Smith	23	1	16	0.0 sacks, 6 interceptions, 1 fumble recovered
RCB	Larry Brown	24	2	16
SS	Darren Woodson	24	1	15	0.0 sacks, 0 interceptions, 3 fumbles recovered
FS	Thomas Everett*	29	6	16	0.0 sacks, 2 interceptions, 0

Jerry still thinks all he needs is the "Triplettes" and thats the problem.....That Dline is lethal and heads and shoulders above anything since...

 

[zrinkill]

The argument about the Cowboys in the 90's was always who made who better.

Was Emmitt so good or was it because of Moose and the OLine. Was the OLine so good or was it because of Emmitt's vision and finding the holes.

Was our passing game good because the defense had to be so focused on stopping Emmitt or was it because of Irvin, Troy, etc.

Was our defense that good or was it because our offense had the ball for 35 minutes a game and was playing with a lead?

You could go on and on and on arguing about this just as a Cowboy fans. Never mind trying to listen to Detroit fans try to explain why Barry Sanders was a better RB.

In my opinion, it all started with Emmitt Smith. Emmitt was the Catalyst. He set the tone. When he played well we typically won. If he did not play or was contained we lost more than 50% of the time.

I agree with this.

By pure numbers ...... those teams had a worse record when Irvin did not play ...... which surprised me ...... I would have assumed it would be Troy or Emmitt.

 

[zrinkill]

Sorry to inform you, QB's do tend to play scared on soft teams.

Or do the teams play soft because they see their QB panicking and looking like a deer in the headlights.

Which came first ...... the scared or the soft.

 

[Nav22]

You keep believing that.

My man, you've gotta stop replying to the wrong posts!

 

[Chasing6]

I agree with this.

By pure numbers ...... those teams had a worse record when Irvin did not play ...... which surprised me ...... I would have assumed it would be Troy or Emmitt.

Ever player on this team was better because of their teammates around them. This was a very complimentary football team.

Today Jerry is trying to build a team around 4 to 5 players, rookies and FA has beens. It is not a recipe for success.

 

[zrinkill]

Ever player on this team was better because of their teammates around them. This was a very complimentary football team.

Today Jerry is trying to build a team around 4 to 5 players, a rookies and FA has beens. It is not a recipe for success.

Again ....... I agree .....

Glad we had a civil conversation.

 

[Nav22]

Dak had great OL for several years. Dak is almost always deer in the headlights in our playoff losses.

Uh-huh.

Other than the GB game, point out our playoff losses with Dak in which our run game was effective and we won the battle in the trenches.

I'll wait.

 

[Chasing6]

Uh-huh.

Other than the GB game, point out our playoff losses with Dak in which our run game was effective and we won the battle in the trenches.

I'll wait.

Can't do it. If Dak plays bad we lose by 20+.

Moutain Mahomes plays bad they win by 14.

 

[CowboyFrog]

Can't do it. If Dak plays bad we lose by 20+.

Moutain Mahomes plays bad they win by 14.

Its crazy because people think your comparing Dak/Mahomes...NO this is a comparison between the KC FO and the Cowboys FO one is CLEARLY better than the other....

 

[Chasing6]

Its crazy because people think your comparing Dak/Mahomes...NO this is a comparison between the KC FO and the Cowboys FO one is CLEARLY better than the other....

You are 100% correct. But uneducated fans only see football games as QB vs QB.

 

[CowboyFrog]

You are 100% correct. But uneducated fans only see football games as QB vs QB.

The KC FO chose Jones over Tyreek...our FO would have chose CD everyday all day because its not about winning...

 

[Chasing6]

The KC FO chose Jones over Tyreek...our FO would have chose CD everyday all day because its not about winning...

Jerry does not know how to build a team. The last draft was extremely deep at WR. Why not start negotiations before the draft when you had some leverage???

We could have traded CD and got a top WR in the draft, signed Henry and got a DT in FA.

 

[CowboyFrog]

Jerry does not know how to build a team. The last draft was extremely deep at WR. Why not start negotiations before the draft when you had some leverage???

We could have traded CD and got a top WR in the draft, signed Henry and got a DT in FA.

Defensive Starters
LDE	Tony Tolbert	26	4	16	7.5 sacks, 0 interceptions, 0 fumbles recovered
LDT	Tony Casillas	30	7	14	2.0 sacks, 0 interceptions, 1 fumble recovered
RDT	Russell Maryland*	24	2	12	2.5 sacks, 0 interceptions, 2 fumbles recovered
RDE	Charles Haley	29	7	11	4.0 sacks, 0 interceptions, 1 fumble recovered
LLB	Dixon Edwards	25	2	15	1.5 sacks, 0 interceptions, 1 fumble recovered
MLB	Ken Norton Jr.*	27	5	16	2.0 sacks, 1 interception, 1 fumble recovered
RLB	Darrin Smith	23	Rook	13	1.0 sacks, 0 interceptions, 1 fumble recovered
LCB	Kevin Smith	23	1	16	0.0 sacks, 6 interceptions, 1 fumble recovered
RCB	Larry Brown	24	2	16
SS	Darren Woodson	24	1	15	0.0 sacks, 0 interceptions, 3 fumbles recovered
FS	Thomas Everett*	29	6	16	0.0 sacks, 2 interceptions, 0

Jerry still doesn't understand how championship teams are made...dont know how he cant see it.

 

[Chasing6]

Defensive Starters
LDE	Tony Tolbert	26	4	16	7.5 sacks, 0 interceptions, 0 fumbles recovered
LDT	Tony Casillas	30	7	14	2.0 sacks, 0 interceptions, 1 fumble recovered
RDT	Russell Maryland*	24	2	12	2.5 sacks, 0 interceptions, 2 fumbles recovered
RDE	Charles Haley	29	7	11	4.0 sacks, 0 interceptions, 1 fumble recovered
LLB	Dixon Edwards	25	2	15	1.5 sacks, 0 interceptions, 1 fumble recovered
MLB	Ken Norton Jr.*	27	5	16	2.0 sacks, 1 interception, 1 fumble recovered
RLB	Darrin Smith	23	Rook	13	1.0 sacks, 0 interceptions, 1 fumble recovered
LCB	Kevin Smith	23	1	16	0.0 sacks, 6 interceptions, 1 fumble recovered
RCB	Larry Brown	24	2	16
SS	Darren Woodson	24	1	15	0.0 sacks, 0 interceptions, 3 fumbles recovered
FS	Thomas Everett*	29	6	16	0.0 sacks, 2 interceptions, 0

Jerry still doesn't understand how championship teams are made...dont know how he cant see it.

Jerry is a feelings guy. He has never been very analytical.

 

[Whiskey Cowboy]

thats easy to say because we remeber the good years..Troy did play with "Jerry Built" incomplete teams and didnt fair so well either...I love Troy, i rank him right with Roger at the top of our QB list...but just like Romo we tend to remeber only the good times...NO QB has come close to winning with a "Jerry's Way" team because the teams are not built to win...

Troy doesnt have a magic bottle that fills in the empty spots on the team Jerry leaves every year for almost 30 years now...

Defensive Starters
LDE	Tony Tolbert	26	4	16	7.5 sacks, 0 interceptions, 0 fumbles recovered
LDT	Tony Casillas	30	7	14	2.0 sacks, 0 interceptions, 1 fumble recovered
RDT	Russell Maryland*	24	2	12	2.5 sacks, 0 interceptions, 2 fumbles recovered
RDE	Charles Haley	29	7	11	4.0 sacks, 0 interceptions, 1 fumble recovered
LLB	Dixon Edwards	25	2	15	1.5 sacks, 0 interceptions, 1 fumble recovered
MLB	Ken Norton Jr.*	27	5	16	2.0 sacks, 1 interception, 1 fumble recovered
RLB	Darrin Smith	23	Rook	13	1.0 sacks, 0 interceptions, 1 fumble recovered
LCB	Kevin Smith	23	1	16	0.0 sacks, 6 interceptions, 1 fumble recovered
RCB	Larry Brown	24	2	16
SS	Darren Woodson	24	1	15	0.0 sacks, 0 interceptions, 3 fumbles recovered
FS	Thomas Everett*	29	6	16	0.0 sacks, 2 interceptions, 0

Jerry still thinks all he needs is the "Triplettes" and thats the problem.....That Dline is lethal and heads and shoulders above anything since...

I see what you're getting at, but I still disagree. Respect the thought and effort put into the post though. There was some leftover talent from the dynasty moving into the late 90s, but the draft takes from 94-00 were awful. As players aged and left for greener pastures, the talent replacing them collectively was poor at best.

1994: Larry Allen
1995: *crickets*
1996: Randall Godfrey
1997: Dexter Coakley
1998: Greg Ellis, Flozell Adams, Darren Hambrick...probably his best effort of that era
1999: Dat Nguyen
2000: 6th rounder Mario Edwards was the best of one of the worst drafts we've seen from the Dallas Cowboys

Over that 7 year period, we saw 6 drafts that brought in 1 or fewer strong contributors. So you lose your hall of fame coach, you lose his personnel expertise, you lose talent, and don't replace it adequately, you lose Jerral's bank account to the salary cap....that's alot to account for in a short period of time, especially when you have a novice surrounded by yes men running the show. The franchise went from legendary to awful in a 3 year time frame. It didn't rebound until Tuna showed up, after which we saw a more steady influx of talent and a better operated franchise.

We can't say Troy can't win with less than excellent talent around him because we don't have the data set to accurately come to that conclusion. We can say that Dak is unable to win with exceptional talent relative to the time period because his stats dictate as much. Last year's team was easily top 5 in the league in terms of talent. It wasn't as talented as the 92-95 Cowboys, but no team has been since the salary cap was implemented. The argument that nobody has had the talent that Troy had is null and void, because the salary cap prevents such a team from being built. We have to project what we think Troy could do on a modern top 5 team, and given the circumstances, I fully believe he had the skill set and intangibles to take the teams I listed much farther in the playoffs than Dak. Does the team become a dynasty like in the 90s? I'm not going to say no, but I really doubt it....but I do think we're more successful in the postseason.