Dak gets another Top 5 ranking

LACowboysFan1

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I didn't say Cousins or Dak are elite. you are trying to draw a conclusion to argue a point, that doesn't exist. I never said you think Dak is bad. its just seems that a lot of people on this thread argue Cousins is better. so my comment. start a team. you have two choices. Cousins or Dak, so seemingly you should take Cousins. I said the same thing to MC, several others.....

and glad to hear you think Dak is a better QB..... stats not withstanding (and misleading)

Well your post was "... you seem to think he is so much better. "

If that was what you gathered from my comments, I understand, but I never said or indicated I thought Cousins was better.

Glad we have an understanding on that point....
 

MountaineerCowboy

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LOL....Dak is NOT a Top 5 QB by any means.
It won't upset me to see him anywhere from 8-11 RIGHT NOW.

This is my opinion.

QBs I would rank ahead of Dak right now (in my personal order): Rodgers, Mahomes, Brady, Watson, Wilson, Allen, and Jackson.
QBs that are right there with Dak, but wouldn't upset me if any of these guys are put ahead of Dak or vice versa on any rankings, (in my personal order): Tannehill, Herbert, Cousins, (Dak), Murray, and Ryan.

If we're talking about the future and taking age into account then my ranking would be: Mahomes, Watson, Allen, Jackson, Herbert, Dak.
The only one I'm iffy about it Herbert. He looked like an MVP caliber player his rookie season, so he is the only one that needs to show that it's not a fluke. He's the one that Dak could easily pass up on both my rankings if Herbert stinks it up.

So I have Dak 11th right now and 6th if you take age into account. Hopefully Dak forces me to move him up into that top 5 range this year.

Again, this is my personal opinion. If you don't agree that's fine, but none of this is set in stone and can easily change this coming season.
 

atlantacowboy

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I said his total career games. Not sure how you’re missing that.

His total career games vs his peers games during that time span. His winning % vs theirs. Where does he rank vs others over his career?


Can and if so will you go through the entire league and factor in and out the games that really are meaningful (by your scale) to determine how good a player is?

You are asking me to dig up all these meaningless stats to prove your point. Why would I do that? You go prove your own point.
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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Thats not true. Dak's career judged through the lense of "2016 is just as relevant as 2019" is kinda absurd. The last full season we have of Dak the team was 8-8 with the 11th ranked defense in the league. We literally did not beat a team over .500. We lost 12-10 to the Saints. Defenses fault right? We lost to the Patriots 13-9. Another defensive breakdown right? Bills 26-15. Jets 22-16.

The book on Dak is that he feasts on the NFC East padding his stats like he did in the 2019 finale against Washington which was competing for a top 3 draft pick at the time and auditioning players...... Dak hits them for 47 points and 4 TD passes. He struggled against just about everyone outside the NFC East.

If you have an issue with my opinion, I really don't care and I'm certainly not going to spend a lot of time compiling stats to convince you. Go watch the game. I did.
you literally are wrong. we did beat Philly which went 9-7 and we did beat Rams that went 9-7...

btw, was it Dak's fault Zeke fumbled on the 4th down? in a 2 point game? was it Dak's fault Witten fumbled at mid field in a 2 point game, while running with the ball? yeah, Dak should have put glue on the ball. I blame him for those fumbles.


also, as I have said many time before, wins/losses fall on the head coach. he has to be able to make the right calls to pull games out in the 4th quarter. most games go into the 4th quarter close and within a score....so make the right calls and you win. make the wrong calls and you lose. we lost three games because of bad game management. against NE, garrett got out coached by Bilicheck. but then again, that's bilicheck against a red head. against Minn. we dominated all game passing at ease, rushing for 45, and then in the end, near the redzone. where we had easily controlled Minn, we ran twice and made two passes to Zeke. why!? same in NO game...not excuses but facts.....and thus as a result of the incompetency the coach and his entire staff got fired (except for one). putting a first year OC, with all of one year total coaching experience at any level, under tutelage of Garrett in a do or die year....yeah, I say that was setting up the team to succeed....NOT.

btw, its another false perception of Dak and NFC east...check out his stats and results outside of the division. its quite similar.

I think take your biased goggles off and look at it objectively and things become much clearer
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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You forgot a 17-9 loss to the Eagles with the playoffs on the line in Week 16.
and lets not forget tony romo's losses three year in a row twice to eagles with playoff implications.

but it always comes back to that one game for all the Dak detractors. no matter how hard they try, its always the eagles game in 2019....and just like you have done in the past....its all Dak's fault. right...I thought you said wins/losses are a team thing, not a Dak thing....but then again you do move the target to win an argument often, so I am not surprised
 

Rockport

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If you could handle the truth you would give your nose and Dak’s jock a rest sometime...
 

MountaineerCowboy

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and lets not forget tony romo's losses three year in a row twice to eagles with playoff implications.

but it always comes back to that one game for all the Dak detractors. no matter how hard they try, its always the eagles game in 2019....and just like you have done in the past....its all Dak's fault. right...I thought you said wins/losses are a team thing, not a Dak thing....but then again you do move the target to win an argument often, so I am not surprised
Those years with Romo where it seemed to come down to the final game and we would lose was heart breaking also.

I do say win's and losses are a team thing, but the QBs play can greatly impact the outcome of the game. There's a reason that they keep W/L records for QBs and not other positions. They are the most important position. Therefore, when the team loses they usually get the brunt of the blame, just like when they win they get most of the credit. The QB can play well and the team lose also, it happens all the time, but in those examples that the poster I replied to provided the QB did not play well. Also, in the Philly game in week 16 of 2019 the QB for the Dallas Cowboys did not play well. I feel that is the reason we lost those games. If the QB would have played even slightly above average in those games we would've won and waltzed into the playoffs.

You don't have to agree, but you won't change my view of those particular performances.

P.S. It's not just that one game for Dak. If you read the post I replied to that poster brought up other examples. I just added one that he left out.
 

LACowboysFan1

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and lets not forget tony romo's losses three year in a row twice to eagles with playoff implications.

but it always comes back to that one game for all the Dak detractors. no matter how hard they try, its always the eagles game in 2019....and just like you have done in the past....its all Dak's fault. right...I thought you said wins/losses are a team thing, not a Dak thing....but then again you do move the target to win an argument often, so I am not surprised

Championships are the major measuring stick for quarterbacks, though there are certainly HOF quarterbacks and very highly ranked quarterbacks that never won a ring - Marino, Moon, Kelly and others.

Even like Brees, e.g. yes he has A ring, at this time he's thought of as one of the all-time greats. But years from now, there will be the "yes he was great BUT he only won one SB" whispers in the background. Multiple SB or NFL championship winning quarterbacks will always be placed just a bit higher on the "all time great NFL quarterbacks" pedestal.

No matter what Dak ultimately does in his NFL career, if he doesn't win a ring, or even just one, he'll never be quite at the top or near the top of the mountain....
 

DFWJC

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It's so funny that you mention Kirk Cousins, because Kirk Cousins will consistently give you around 4,300 yards, around 30 TDs and around 10 INTs every single year.

Dak has put up those types of numbers ONCE, but Kirk is middle of the pack and Dak is top 5, ahead of guys like Allen and Wilson......
Yeah.
I'm definitely not a Dak hater, but really, if you look at production, Cousins is right there with him....or above.

Just looking at the two individual QB stats that seem to matter most--which are TD-turnover differential and Standard QB rating---he's actually pretty good.

2019

Dak:
Differential 19
QB rating 99.7

Cousins:
Differential 20,
QB rating 107.4
-----------------------------------------------------------------
2018

Dak:
Differential 14
QB rating 96.9

Cousins:
Differential 20,
QB rating 99.7

I'd say they both have been more than solid.
 

CowboyRoy

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i don’t think he is and I’m certainly no Dak basher....

Dak overall since he has been in the league has been better than Allen. Allen's first two years were not great years by any stretch. I had him in fantasy both years so I know what he did those years. Last year, with a true #1 WR he took off. last year for him was incredible. Definitely the best full year from either QB. I have no doubt that if you give Dak THAT kind of offense he will be in conference championships as well.
 

USArmyVet

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It won't upset me to see him anywhere from 8-11 RIGHT NOW.

This is my opinion.

QBs I would rank ahead of Dak right now (in my personal order): Rodgers, Mahomes, Brady, Watson, Wilson, Allen, and Jackson.
QBs that are right there with Dak, but wouldn't upset me if any of these guys are put ahead of Dak or vice versa on any rankings, (in my personal order): Tannehill, Herbert, Cousins, (Dak), Murray, and Ryan.

If we're talking about the future and taking age into account then my ranking would be: Mahomes, Watson, Allen, Jackson, Herbert, Dak.
The only one I'm iffy about it Herbert. He looked like an MVP caliber player his rookie season, so he is the only one that needs to show that it's not a fluke. He's the one that Dak could easily pass up on both my rankings if Herbert stinks it up.

So I have Dak 11th right now and 6th if you take age into account. Hopefully Dak forces me to move him up into that top 5 range this year.

Again, this is my personal opinion. If you don't agree that's fine, but none of this is set in stone and can easily change this coming season.


8-11 is a better range for him
 

CowboyRoy

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Riddle me this. The Vikings and Cowboys pretty much match up evenly, for the most part.

If the Cowboys played the Vikings 17 times this year, what would their records be? 9-8 or 10-7? Flip a coin as to who would have more wins.

Dak may be better than Cousins right now. Cousins may be better than Dak right now. Not a lot of separation between the two. Just a matter of who shows up that day and makes plays, splash plays, plays on third down, plays in the red zone.

Dak is much better than Cousins. To argue different is ridiculous. I like Cousins, but Dak is better.

The vikings also have a better defense. Its not top 10, but its better than what the Cowboys trotted out there last year no question.
 

Future

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You are asking me to dig up all these meaningless stats to prove your point. Why would I do that? You go prove your own point.
You haven't actually made a point. You need to provide context for what you said to be relevant.
 

TwoCentPlain

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Dak is much better than Cousins. To argue different is ridiculous. I like Cousins, but Dak is better.

The vikings also have a better defense. Its not top 10, but its better than what the Cowboys trotted out there last year no question.

Well, I’m not selling snake oil. What would their records be if they played 17 games this year? Cowboys an Vikings are evenly matched. Cowboys probably have a better offense, Vikings defense.

I know exactly why you are afraid to guess.
 

MountaineerCowboy

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Dak overall since he has been in the league has been better than Allen. Allen's first two years were not great years by any stretch. I had him in fantasy both years so I know what he did those years. Last year, with a true #1 WR he took off. last year for him was incredible. Definitely the best full year from either QB. I have no doubt that if you give Dak THAT kind of offense he will be in conference championships as well.
What do you mean by "that kind of offense"? Dak plays his best when he is playing behind Zeke. That's when the team is at it's best overall also.

The Bills leading rusher had 680 yards.
Dak has never went to the playoffs without Zeke rushing for at least 1,400 yards.
That's literally DOUBLE the amount that Allen had to work with last year.

Dak can't run like Allen.
Allen already has more career rushing yards and rushing TDs then Dak in 2 less years.
Dak def. won't be running like Allen now that he has been injured.

So, I'm not sure what makes you think inserting Dak into that Bills offense would somehow make them just as good. The Bills have Diggs, Allen, and Beasley. That's basically it.

Dak has plenty of weapons to work with on his own offense. A lot more then Allen has on the Bills, that's for sure.

So, please, elaborate on just how Dak would somehow make it to the conference championship on THAT kind of offense when that is not the kind of offense that Dak thrives on.
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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Those years with Romo where it seemed to come down to the final game and we would lose was heart breaking also.

I do say win's and losses are a team thing, but the QBs play can greatly impact the outcome of the game. There's a reason that they keep W/L records for QBs and not other positions. They are the most important position. Therefore, when the team loses they usually get the brunt of the blame, just like when they win they get most of the credit. The QB can play well and the team lose also, it happens all the time, but in those examples that the poster I replied to provided the QB did not play well. Also, in the Philly game in week 16 of 2019 the QB for the Dallas Cowboys did not play well. I feel that is the reason we lost those games. If the QB would have played even slightly above average in those games we would've won and waltzed into the playoffs.

You don't have to agree, but you won't change my view of those particular performances.

P.S. It's not just that one game for Dak. If you read the post I replied to that poster brought up other examples. I just added one that he left out.
you are entitled to your opinion, and that wasn't one of Dak's best performances. he did play injured, but no excuse.

yes, QBs carry the brunt of wins/losses simply because they are highest paid on a team usually.

with that said, in all the hoopla around Dak, all other areas that were abysmal in that game are being ignored......

the Defense played pretty bad....gave up 430 yards. wentz went 31/40, about 78% completion rate....that's not good. in fact down right awful..
Zeke was able to only rush for 47 yards averaging 3.6 yards. that's the highest paid RB in the league.....and as a team we rushed for 54...that's abysmal.
cooper disappeared in a big game, yet again...only had 24 yards on 4 catches...that's on 12 targets.....that's abysmal ....
special teams once again was bad...we averaged 20 yards on two returns, they averaged 28....that gives them great field position to start
they punted the ball just 4 times all game...on 12 possession and they got in field goal range 3 times, missing 2.... that shows how bad the defense played.
they held the ball for 36 minutes, mostly because they rushed effectively (30 rushes) and 78% completion rate on 40 passes.....that's down right awful
in a 10-6 contest. offense puts a drive together, gets down to philly 26 and Pollard fumbles.....you just can't fumble in a critical, close game like this...

all the dak detractors want to point to second philly game in 2019 and build an entire case of his career around it, yet these little facts are lost in the debate. so tell me how that was good defensive play...but most point to season averages. yet focus on single game in 2019 to assess how Dak did in 2019 and blame the loss on him. so looking at defensive performance in that single game, tells me the defense sucked. sucked royally

and to top it off, the play calling and coaching in this game, once again atrocious ....the way Moore/Garrett managed that game was confusing.

so although everyone points to season this, season that, blah blah, 2019 Philly game, Dak played bad blah blah....no one wants to look at the rest of the team's performance......including coaching....why? because it defeats their argument.

and as I said, that wasn't one of Dak's best games.....
 

ghst187

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Dak overall since he has been in the league has been better than Allen. Allen's first two years were not great years by any stretch. I had him in fantasy both years so I know what he did those years. Last year, with a true #1 WR he took off. last year for him was incredible. Definitely the best full year from either QB. I have no doubt that if you give Dak THAT kind of offense he will be in conference championships as well.

i think we have the offensive firepower so Dak is gonna be without excuses, it’s the defense that has killed us but been strong for Buffalo. Based on the latest body of work I’d have to go with Allen but we don’t know how Dak would’ve played a full season out. Hopefully we will see this year with all cylinders firing
 
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