Dak is 9th-best QB in NFL per coaches, scouts and execs

[TheMarathonContinues]

I'm not the biggest fan of Jackson but he does have talent. I would sorta compare him to Vick but I would say that Lamar is a more consistent passer, but can have clunkers. When he is a good passer and running threat, it's very difficult to defend. When he isn't, it's not pretty.

Herbert, that is true in a sense but he has already shown that his physical talent is immense. As in gives his team a huge advantage when he steps on the field. It's hard for me to imagine him not having an extraordinary career.

What is the fascination with Herbert and why is he held to a different standard than nearly anyone else? He gets more love than Burrow and I don't get it.

 

[DeaconMoss]

I'm not the biggest fan of Jackson but he does have talent. I would sorta compare him to Vick but I would say that Lamar is a more consistent passer, but can have clunkers. When he is a good passer and running threat, it's very difficult to defend. When he isn't, it's not pretty.

Herbert, that is true in a sense but he has already shown that his physical talent is immense. As in gives his team a huge advantage when he steps on the field. It's hard for me to imagine him not having an extraordinary career.

I would take both over Statscott in the blink of an eye.

 

[McKDaddy]

What is the fascination with Herbert and why is he held to a different standard than nearly anyone else? He gets more love than Burrow and I don't get it.

If you have watched him play, I don't know what else to tell you. In less than 3 seasons he has thrown for more than 14,000 yards and his first two seasons he had ratings of 98.3 & 97.7. Last year he played half the year with rib injuries and he's only had one consistent weapon, Eckler.

Who's holding him to a different standard? He literally just completed his third season. I think everyone is viewing him as ascending, still learning & growing but hella talented.

 

[Whyjerry]

I'm not the biggest fan of Jackson but he does have talent. I would sorta compare him to Vick but I would say that Lamar is a more consistent passer, but can have clunkers. When he is a good passer and running threat, it's very difficult to defend. When he isn't, it's not pretty.

Herbert, that is true in a sense but he has already shown that his physical talent is immense. As in gives his team a huge advantage when he steps on the field. It's hard for me to imagine him not having an extraordinary career.

I am more opposed to Jackson. Sure he is a great athlete but he had one great season. DCs figure guys out and they seem to have figured him out. Plus I think his running ability is going to diminish. He is just not a big guy. I get bothered when people have him at the top of the league QBs. It makes no sense.

 

[Mac_MaloneV1]

So, we've seen Brady, Brees, Rivers, Luck & Roethlisberger retire in recent years. Certainly there has been a turnover of proven QB's who were always consistently in the top 10. Now you have a lot of the young guys trying to find their tier.

You saying that if even two of these guys were still playing it wouldn't shake up the list? I get that other than Luck they were all at the end of their careers but I'm sure you get the point that the list of who is top 10 is very dependent on year.

Maybe there isn't an overall lack of talent at the position relative to the past but I don't see how anyone could argue it's not in a transitionary state.

Are you quoting the wrong thing? I didn't say anything about any of that lol

 

[McKDaddy]

I am more opposed to Jackson. Sure he is a great athlete but he had one great season. DCs figure guys out and they seem to have figured him out. Plus I think his running ability is going to diminish. He is just not a big guy. I get bothered when people have him at the top of the league QBs. It makes no sense.

I would argue he's played well most seasons. But I share your concerns as did the Ravens.

It's the nature of the beast. Jackson, Hurts, Murray, etc., all bring something special to the game as long as they are legit dual threats. They give you an advantage when they play well. You can win games with lesser overall offensive talent on the field and virtually no defense can stop them.

 

[McKDaddy]

Are you quoting the wrong thing? I didn't say anything about any of that lol

Your post #17 seemed to be saying there wasn't anything supporting a lack of talent at the position.

If not what you were referring to, then yeah I mistook your post.

 

[McKDaddy]

I would take both over Statscott in the blink of an eye.

I would definitely take Herbert!!

 

[pansophy]

but therein lies the difference. statistic applies mathematically to numbers and data points collected and averaged. a ranking, is a ranking, is a ranking. its opinion based on different peoples thought processes. if we want to take a series of data points and use that to calculate averages etc., then that would make more sense than saying the middle tier of some rankings (no factual data, but opinion based) is the middle 50%.

and my point with your argument was that your opinion is that 9-24th spot is average, but in the NFL there is a huge gap between 24th rated player vs. 9th and saying, oh, they are all average. if Darnold is the 24th ranked player, you can't say Dak and Darnold are both average and thus about the same. that's too wide range of a difference in rankings even to say its all average, specially that there are 32 starting QBs.

and even in the 11th 12th range if you want to look at QBR only, then 16th player would be median, and this would put Dak above median. 11th ranked QBR is not the average of 32 QBs ranked. probably a better way would be to take QBR of each QB (or top 32 starting), average it and then that would be truly the average. and subsequently each QB would be above or below average by x margin of average QBr. again, the notion that 11th ranked is average is mathematically incorrect.

and yes, I am also looking forward to the new wrinkles in offense. I don't expect much difference, as we can't jus tear it apart and rebuild, given that would be a two year process at least.

Sure, absolutely. A ranking doesn't provide information on actual performance. Implicitly we know that the performance gap between 9 and 24 is huge but this information is not explicitly embedded in a ranking, which is why I also reference looking at QBR, in which he has been average the last 2 years as well. We can talk about high average versus low average, but the premise of this thread was that NFL people ranking Dak as 9th is a rebuke of guys calling him average, which is simply wrong.

That is the only point I'm making. In QBR terms and in this ranking Dak is in the average pack, at the high end, but still in the average pack.

I don't really see how the story gets better for Dak either. McCarthy has already said he is fine with scoring fewer points if that means fewer turnovers and more TOP so that the defense is rested. If we win everything by averaging 22 points a game instead of 30 Dak will be viewed as a bus driver, and if we lose then folks will be talking about how he is trash. Maybe fewer points mean 26 points per game instead of 30, which would be alright.

I do think we can win with him. Will say the WCO is all about YAC so his accuracy critics are going to be all over him whenever a ball is placed in a catchable place but doesn't allow for it.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

If you have watched him play, I don't know what else to tell you. In less than 3 seasons he has thrown for more than 14,000 yards and his first two seasons he had ratings of 98.3 & 97.7. Last year he played half the year with rib injuries and he's only had one consistent weapon, Eckler.

Who's holding him to a different standard? He literally just completed his third season. I think everyone is viewing him as ascending, still learning & growing but hella talented.

He's making top 5 lists all over the place.

I've seen him play. Just like I saw Matt Stafford play. And people never gave Stafford credit because the Lions stink despite not having the best personnel aside from Megatron. Herbert is on a good team personnel wise.....the past 2 years his team has been projected to be a playoff contender with one year them not even making the playoffs and the other getting kicked out in the 1st round. Meanwhile, Dak sucks, Deshaun sucks, Lamar sucks....all because of one bad year or injury. Hell even Aaron Rodgers is becoming an after thought.

Burrow love is warranted. Herbert's is premature IMO.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

I would take both over Statscott in the blink of an eye.

If Dak is Statscott what the hell is Justin Herbert lol?

 

[Mac_MaloneV1]

Your post #17 seemed to be saying there wasn't anything supporting a lack of talent at the position.

If not what you were referring to, then yeah I mistook your post.

Ah, no I meant the 9-15 part.

Like if you're going to say 9-15 are interchangeable then there's no reason not to include, like, 6, 7, and 8

 

[McKDaddy]

He's making top 5 lists all over the place.

I've seen him play. Just like I saw Matt Stafford play. And people never gave Stafford credit because the Lions stink despite not having the best personnel aside from Megatron. Herbert is on a good team personnel wise.....the past 2 years his team has been projected to be a playoff contender with one year them not even making the playoffs and the other getting kicked out in the 1st round. Meanwhile, Dak sucks, Deshaun sucks, Lamar sucks....all because of one bad year or injury. Hell even Aaron Rodgers is becoming an after thought.

Burrow love is warranted. Herbert's is premature IMO.

Barring some issue with his health or his weapons I think he will be cemented in the top 5 after this season.

Yeah, on paper the defense is pretty stout but don't quite live up to it on the field. Williams & Allen are good but neither can stay on the field. Eckler is awesome .... but when does that drop off.
So overall, I think they have been more middle of the road personnel wise. Plus, they did punt on the head coach \ philosophy he had his first season, so they have had turnover.
I honestly don't care about the playoff game. Jacksonville couldn't play worse than they did in the first half. In the second half they focused on the weaknesses and won because of them.
Whether or not the Chargers have removed those weaknesses will be a big part of whatever team success they have this year.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Sure, absolutely. A ranking doesn't provide information on actual performance. Implicitly we know that the performance gap between 9 and 24 is huge but this information is not explicitly embedded in a ranking, which is why I also reference looking at QBR, in which he has been average the last 2 years as well. We can talk about high average versus low average, but the premise of this thread was that NFL people ranking Dak as 9th is a rebuke of guys calling him average, which is simply wrong.

That is the only point I'm making. In QBR terms and in this ranking Dak is in the average pack, at the high end, but still in the average pack.

I don't really see how the story gets better for Dak either. McCarthy has already said he is fine with scoring fewer points if that means fewer turnovers and more TOP so that the defense is rested. If we win everything by averaging 22 points a game instead of 30 Dak will be viewed as a bus driver, and if we lose then folks will be talking about how he is trash. Maybe fewer points mean 26 points per game instead of 30, which would be alright.

I do think we can win with him. Will say the WCO is all about YAC so his accuracy critics are going to be all over him whenever a ball is placed in a catchable place but doesn't allow for it.

I think we can agree on this. it comes down to winning, not necessarily just scoring more, and winning is about how you put a team together, offense, defense, special teams. if we give up 20 points a game and score 24 and win more games than lose and end up in superbowl, then I am fine. I don't care who calls whom what. its about team winning.

 

[GINeric]

They can rank him whatever they want. Until he takes the team to a NFC champ game or a superbowl, Statscott can be ranked 32 or 1. Makes no difference to me. I think he gives the chance to win games but not rings. Past due for a change.

Fair enough. But he is ranked according to production on the field. They have been keeping stats/production for many decades but for some reason some people say they don't count now that Dak Prescott is in the NFL.

I wonder how that works...

With that said, you said it's past due for change if a quarterback hasn't "taken" a team to an NFC Championship or Superbowl, correct? Ok cool.

I stand to be corrected if im wrong, but.... Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Matthew Stafford, and many other quarterbacks didn't "take" their teams to Championship games or Superbowls after just 6 years of playing.... did you say the same IDENTICAL thing about them after 6 seasons?? Because if you didn't then you're just another hypocrite. Respectfully.....

Oh yeah... Aaron Rodgers won a Superbowl. So did Trent Dilpher, Matthew Stafford and Nick Foles. It's a good bet that Rodgers will be in the Hall of Fame. Will Dilpher, Foles and Stafford be inducted as well? They all have the same Superbowl success, right?

Oh wait, Eli Manning has 2 Superbowl rings, so surely he's a better quarterback than Aaron Rodgers according to your measurement system, right?

 

[Kevinicus]

so again, these random nameless polls, trying to discredit it, but its NFL Execs, Coaches and Scouts...not random. folks with names. larger poll actually with more input and tend to normalize with as many votes.
vs. one persons preference over another. btw, that same Williams who preferred Romo (which has nothing to do with ranking of QBs who play today and half this Bash Dak crowd jumped on it), also said Dak is better than Hurts, but mostly no peep on that from the same crowd.

You take the "NFL Execs, coaches, and scouts" at face value. I don't.

Who are they? What executives? What positions exactly? What teams? Which coaches? Which scouts? Until you have that, it is 100% random nameless polls.
For all you know they're taking a poll of the waterboy, or the assistant kicking scout.
And how is the poll taken? What exactly is asked? How is the ranking calculated?
You're taking absolutely no actual data and running with it.
Honestly not sure why we're talking about Williams? Never understood what point you were trying to make and what that has to do with a silly poll.
I think it was the myth point, but unlike the article which doesn't give any details, the video of Williams existed. You know exactly who he is and what he said exactly.

 

[pansophy]

This ranking puts Dak in Tier 2 but in good company in the superior range rather than high average even though its for video game purposes:

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You take the "NFL Execs, coaches, and scouts" at face value. I don't.

Who are they? What executives? What positions exactly? What teams? Which coaches? Which scouts? Until you have that, it is 100% random nameless polls.
For all you know they're taking a poll of the waterboy, or the assistant kicking scout.
And how is the poll taken? What exactly is asked? How is the ranking calculated?
You're taking absolutely no actual data and running with it.
Honestly not sure why we're talking about Williams? Never understood what point you were trying to make and what that has to do with a silly poll.
I think it was the myth point, but unlike the article which doesn't give any details, the video of Williams existed.

So then who do you take? I get that you have your own beliefs and have conviction. That is great.

They asked players, coaches, and execs to rank the QBs. Each and every NFL player, coach, and exec can be discovered through a simple google search.

 

[Kevinicus]

So then who do you take? I get that you have your own beliefs and have conviction. That is great.

They asked players, coaches, and execs to rank the QBs. Each and every NFL player, coach, and exec can be discovered through a simple google search.

Who do I take what? I'm not making a statement of belief or conviction, outside of the ridiculousness of giving any "poll" like this credence.

The exact people they asked?
What exactly they asked?
That information can be found by a simple google search?

 

[TheSport78]

Nope. Everyone who disagrees with me about Dak isn't the people I'm talking about.

I'm talking about the dumb haters who really believe that they know more about football and NFL quarterbacking than other players, coaches and GMs.

Maybe you're one of those I speak of. Are you triggered that people who know more about NFL football than you placed Dak in the top 10?

Bro, it's an NFL online forum discussing topics via thoughts and opinions. Guess what, even in 2023, it's okay to DISAGREE.