Dak is 9th-best QB in NFL per coaches, scouts and execs

[pansophy]

you say average range is the middle 50%, meaning the 9-24 range, but who says that's the average range? that's choosing what the average range is. this is rankings, not absolute data points. one could easily say the average range is the middle 20%. its opinion based, not mathematical reasoning. this is not summing up 32 numbers and then coming up with an average and variance. your math in this case is total made up stuff that doesn't apply as factual, but your opinion. one could easily say the 16th and 17th rank players are average, then you are either above or below average. and yes, he is considered in the top 72nd percentile. who says, that's average? oh yeah, you who decided that average means the middle 50%. one could say he is in the top 3rd of the league and is considered above average. as they say there is lies, there is damn lies and then there is statistics.

It’s not really opinion based. It’s a common way to breakdown distributions that may not be normal, which along with median show the typically (“average”) observed scores. It’s the basis of the boxplot and Dak is in the box. There is no boxplot based on the middle 20%.

I also said it’s not the only way to determine “average”. Another way would be to look at how QBR metrics group together. Like maybe he is 9th but his scores are right there with Mahomes etc while the average tier is clearly separately and lower. That’s not what we see though for the last 2 years. His QBR is 11th and 12th. So either way he’s in the average group, though at the top of it.

Point being, being ranked 9th doesn’t refute guys saying Dak is average but validates it. That’s the actual point here. I think Dak is good enough to win with the right cast. Unless we find ourselves drafting 4th somehow I don’t see how we get away from Dak either unless he has a significant injury, which would be very unfortunate.

im looking forward to seeing what he can do in the west coast scheme.

 

[Streifenkarl]

Think about all the Anti-Dak Cult Members who have called Dak "trash" or "average" all offseason....

And now the rest of us can officially point and laugh at them.


Nobody on this board knows better than actual NFL personnel. Go argue with a wall.

The Anti-Dakkers lose yet again, because losers lose.

Top 10 List:​

1. Patrick Mahomes – Kansas City Chiefs
2. Joe Burrow – Cincinnati Bengals
3. Josh Allen – Buffalo Bills
4. Aaron Rodgers – New York Jets
5. Justin Herbert – Los Angeles Chargers
6. Jalen Hurts – Philadelphia Eagles
7. Lamar Jackson – Baltimore Ravens
8. Trevor Lawrence – Jacksonville Jaguars
9. Dak Prescott – Dallas Cowboys
10. Matthew Stafford – Los Angeles Rams

Honorable Mention:​

• Deshaun Watson – Cleveland Browns
• Kirk Cousins – Minnesota Vikings
• Jared Goff – Detroit Lions
• Derek Carr – New Orleans Saints
• Tua Tagovailoa – Miami Dolphins

Additional Votes:​

• Kyler Murray – Arizona Cardinals
• Daniel Jones – New York Giants
• Justin Fields – Chicago Bears

https://brobible.com/sports/article...-according-to-executives-players-coaches/amp/

Nice instigating post, well done homer.

Most Dak critics put him just about there, so it seems about right to me. The point always was, the dude ain't elite. And this list confirms that. Well, as far as NFL standards go of course. Any NFL QB is elite in general.

But still, the guy doesn't have to be elite to lead this team to the SB. My personal gripe with him is how he seems to handle bad games afterwards. All that "just a bump in the road" talk. He just can't do what he did in the play offs so far anymore. In both games the D held their ground while his offense sucked. And I don't care who should get most of the blame, team game bla bla. There were enough threads about who else didn't do their job. But he's our QB, he's the most important part on the field. So get it done.

 

[CCBoy]

This will enter as being a valid fact to project with as well...

But in order to know where one is going, you must first understand from whence one came, and the 29-year-old touts one of the most impressive statistical resumes in league history and, quiet as it might be kept, is also the leader among all active wideouts in number of 1,000-yard seasons produced. He has six in his first nine tries, and that's despite being well-traveled (i.e., having to quickly pick up a new offense and establish chemistry with a new quarterback in short order).

If he racks up just one 1,000-yard season with the Cowboys, he'll surpass Brandon Marshall as the only player in NFL history to have done so with five different teams.

...Bill Belicheck traded multiple picks, including a 2017 first-rounder, to acquire Cooks via trade.

From there he'd suit up for the Los Angeles Rams, who sent a package that included a first-round pick, and I'm sure you're picking up on a few themes at this point — one being how costly it was to acquire Cooks each time he was moved.

https://www.dallascowboys.com/news/science-lab-cooks-can-make-nfl-history-in-23

The Cowboys acquired this player for a … fifth-round pick.

 

[CCBoy]

Nice instigating post, well done homer.

Most Dak critics put him just about there, so it seems about right to me. The point always was, the dude ain't elite. And this list confirms that. Well, as far as NFL standards go of course. Any NFL QB is elite in general.

But still, the guy doesn't have to be elite to lead this team to the SB. My personal gripe with him is how he seems to handle bad games afterwards. All that "just a bump in the road" talk. He just can't do what he did in the play offs so far anymore. In both games the D held their ground while his offense sucked. And I don't care who should get most of the blame, team game bla bla. There were enough threads about who else didn't do their job. But he's our QB, he's the most important part on the field. So get it done.

Or over time, some Cowboys fans realize that even the 'reverenced' quarterbacks had many examples of failures as well as poorly thrown passes as well. One can start with both Roger Staubach and Troy Aikman. They overcame...so can Dak Prescott. He still has a full deck to play with.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I mean, Williams is on video saying exactly that. He's just one guy with an opinion though. Just because he has that opinion doesn't make it a fact.

This random nameless "poll" is ridiculous. It takes some real low critical thinking ability to give it any credence.

Those videos you whine about aren't evidence of anything either, but at least they offer actual arguments behind their opinions and aren't just useless polls of nobody knows who (not to mention details of how the "poll" was taken).

so again, these random nameless polls, trying to discredit it, but its NFL Execs, Coaches and Scouts...not random. folks with names. larger poll actually with more input and tend to normalize with as many votes.
vs. one persons preference over another. btw, that same Williams who preferred Romo (which has nothing to do with ranking of QBs who play today and half this Bash Dak crowd jumped on it), also said Dak is better than Hurts, but mostly no peep on that from the same crowd.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

So wait....you're just going to gloss over the fact that you put all those words in my mouth that I didn't say, and put the complete opposite of my opinion back on me that I didn't value the NFL Execs opinions, and just change the topuc as if you hadnt said any of those false things about me?

The cool thing would be to just acknowledge you misread my post

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

It’s not really opinion based. It’s a common way to breakdown distributions that may not be normal, which along with median show the typically (“average”) observed scores. It’s the basis of the boxplot and Dak is in the box. There is no boxplot based on the middle 20%.

I also said it’s not the only way to determine “average”. Another way would be to look at how QBR metrics group together. Like maybe he is 9th but his scores are right there with Mahomes etc while the average tier is clearly separately and lower. That’s not what we see though for the last 2 years. His QBR is 11th and 12th. So either way he’s in the average group, though at the top of it.

Point being, being ranked 9th doesn’t refute guys saying Dak is average but validates it. That’s the actual point here. I think Dak is good enough to win with the right cast. Unless we find ourselves drafting 4th somehow I don’t see how we get away from Dak either unless he has a significant injury, which would be very unfortunate.

im looking forward to seeing what he can do in the west coast scheme.

but therein lies the difference. statistic applies mathematically to numbers and data points collected and averaged. a ranking, is a ranking, is a ranking. its opinion based on different peoples thought processes. if we want to take a series of data points and use that to calculate averages etc., then that would make more sense than saying the middle tier of some rankings (no factual data, but opinion based) is the middle 50%.

and my point with your argument was that your opinion is that 9-24th spot is average, but in the NFL there is a huge gap between 24th rated player vs. 9th and saying, oh, they are all average. if Darnold is the 24th ranked player, you can't say Dak and Darnold are both average and thus about the same. that's too wide range of a difference in rankings even to say its all average, specially that there are 32 starting QBs.

and even in the 11th 12th range if you want to look at QBR only, then 16th player would be median, and this would put Dak above median. 11th ranked QBR is not the average of 32 QBs ranked. probably a better way would be to take QBR of each QB (or top 32 starting), average it and then that would be truly the average. and subsequently each QB would be above or below average by x margin of average QBr. again, the notion that 11th ranked is average is mathematically incorrect.

and yes, I am also looking forward to the new wrinkles in offense. I don't expect much difference, as we can't jus tear it apart and rebuild, given that would be a two year process at least.

 

[DuncanIso]

His last Pro Bowl was 2018.

Last 3 seasons have been down up down

 

[Flamma]

I respect this guy's opinion a lot. Go to the 24 minute mark to see him talking about Dak. He has him ranked 13th, but as high as 9.

 

[thunderpimp91]

You basically have 35+ year old QBs on their last legs, backups who succeeded in limited action, and failed starters. All the QBs 30 and younger in that top third do not see VFA and are not available for trade for less than a Hershel Walker trade value in return. That was what I was getting at.

Then there is the whole bird in hand thing.

I agree with most of that, but overall we are seeing more and more viable (and some really good) qb options hit the open market at least more than what I can ever remember. I know a lot of people will disagree with me on this, but I think the transition from college to the NFL has become easier than it was in the past, both from a rules aspect and schemes from both levels have started to overlap in ways. This has generated more options....not necessarily great ones, (Brady/Cousins/Carr....maybe Jimmy G are the only ones I can think of that would be in the conversation with Dak) but the options for teams to grab that 1-3 year gap player until they land a shiny new toy in the draft is there.

It's certainly not a foolproof plan of action yet (see Indy) but I do see some legitimacy to the crowd that says to churn the QB position until you land that elite level QB to sign long term.

 

[kskboys]

This will enter as being a valid fact to project with as well...

But in order to know where one is going, you must first understand from whence one came, and the 29-year-old touts one of the most impressive statistical resumes in league history and, quiet as it might be kept, is also the leader among all active wideouts in number of 1,000-yard seasons produced. He has six in his first nine tries, and that's despite being well-traveled (i.e., having to quickly pick up a new offense and establish chemistry with a new quarterback in short order).

If he racks up just one 1,000-yard season with the Cowboys, he'll surpass Brandon Marshall as the only player in NFL history to have done so with five different teams.

...Bill Belicheck traded multiple picks, including a 2017 first-rounder, to acquire Cooks via trade.

From there he'd suit up for the Los Angeles Rams, who sent a package that included a first-round pick, and I'm sure you're picking up on a few themes at this point — one being how costly it was to acquire Cooks each time he was moved.

https://www.dallascowboys.com/news/science-lab-cooks-can-make-nfl-history-in-23

The Cowboys acquired this player for a … fifth-round pick.

I still don't comprehend why Cooks isn't more valued.

 

[gtb1943]

I agree with most of that, but overall we are seeing more and more viable (and some really good) qb options hit the open market at least more than what I can ever remember. I know a lot of people will disagree with me on this, but I think the transition from college to the NFL has become easier than it was in the past, both from a rules aspect and schemes from both levels have started to overlap in ways. This has generated more options....not necessarily great ones, (Brady/Cousins/Carr....maybe Jimmy G are the only ones I can think of that would be in the conversation with Dak) but the options for teams to grab that 1-3 year gap player until they land a shiny new toy in the draft is there.

It's certainly not a foolproof plan of action yet (see Indy) but I do see some legitimacy to the crowd that says to churn the QB position until you land that elite level QB to sign long term.

With the NFL rules so favoring the offense, and protecting the QB, I do agree that it is easier for QBs from college to do better in the NFL. Also QB coaching in college has steadily gotten better over the years so more of them are better prepared starting out.

 

[gtb1943]

I still don't comprehend why Cooks isn't more valued.

Some people just never seem to tweak the level of interest their play deserves.

 

[kskboys]

I agree with most of that, but overall we are seeing more and more viable (and some really good) qb options hit the open market at least more than what I can ever remember. I know a lot of people will disagree with me on this, but I think the transition from college to the NFL has become easier than it was in the past, both from a rules aspect and schemes from both levels have started to overlap in ways. This has generated more options....not necessarily great ones, (Brady/Cousins/Carr....maybe Jimmy G are the only ones I can think of that would be in the conversation with Dak) but the options for teams to grab that 1-3 year gap player until they land a shiny new toy in the draft is there.

It's certainly not a foolproof plan of action yet (see Indy) but I do see some legitimacy to the crowd that says to churn the QB position until you land that elite level QB to sign long term.

Yeah, me too. It's the extreme pay you have to give 2nd level QBs. Makes it almost impossible to put a super bowl team around them. Cousins is prolly the most glaring example.

As you do down the list of top QBs, the further from the top you get the more you need around them. No one should be even close to the pay of Mahomes and Burrows. And yet, inexplicably, they are. Makes no sense.

 

[McKDaddy]

You could also argue that Dak/Trevor are just as close to Rodgers/Burrow/Allen as they are to Tua/Goff.

No, you really can't. That has always been the point.

Ranking them numerically is useless. It mostly just means that right now there are only a handful that have established themselves as clearly top tier and everyone else is interchangeable in the other tiers.

 

[kskboys]

No, you really can't. That has always been the point.

Ranking them numerically is useless. It mostly just means that right now there are only a handful that have established themselves as clearly top tier and everyone else is interchangeable in the other tiers.

Right now in the NFL, it's Mahomes and Burrows and then everyone else. No one is close to these two. They simply have that inexplicable IT factor, like Brady and Montana. Can't teach it.

Allen is prolly next, and he's very good, but not top 2 good.

 

[thunderpimp91]

Yeah, me too. It's the extreme pay you have to give 2nd level QBs. Makes it almost impossible to put a super bowl team around them. Cousins is prolly the most glaring example.

As you do down the list of top QBs, the further from the top you get the more you need around them. No one should be even close to the pay of Mahomes and Burrows. And yet, inexplicably, they are. Makes no sense.

Yeah I agree. How many big contract 2nd/3rd tier QBs have made a superbowl? Jimmy G is the obvious one, maybe Stafford on an all in Rams team? Matt Ryan went once. So it CAN happen, and I think Dak is good enough to get there on a loaded team around him, but we are seeing most superbowl QBs either at an elite level, or on rookie deals.

 

[McKDaddy]

That is total garbage. There is absolutely 0 legitimate fact-based argument that supports that. Not one.

So, we've seen Brady, Brees, Rivers, Luck & Roethlisberger retire in recent years. Certainly there has been a turnover of proven QB's who were always consistently in the top 10. Now you have a lot of the young guys trying to find their tier.

You saying that if even two of these guys were still playing it wouldn't shake up the list? I get that other than Luck they were all at the end of their careers but I'm sure you get the point that the list of who is top 10 is very dependent on year.

Maybe there isn't an overall lack of talent at the position relative to the past but I don't see how anyone could argue it's not in a transitionary state.

 

[McKDaddy]

Herbert is all about potential. Jackson had one great year. Very overrated.

I'm not the biggest fan of Jackson but he does have talent. I would sorta compare him to Vick but I would say that Lamar is a more consistent passer, but can have clunkers. When he is a good passer and running threat, it's very difficult to defend. When he isn't, it's not pretty.

Herbert, that is true in a sense but he has already shown that his physical talent is immense. As in gives his team a huge advantage when he steps on the field. It's hard for me to imagine him not having an extraordinary career.

 

[DeaconMoss]

Nope. Everyone who disagrees with me about Dak isn't the people I'm talking about.

I'm talking about the dumb haters who really believe that they know more about football and NFL quarterbacking than other players, coaches and GMs.

Maybe you're one of those I speak of. Are you triggered that people who know more about NFL football than you placed Dak in the top 10?

They can rank him whatever they want. Until he takes the team to a NFC champ game or a superbowl, Statscott can be ranked 32 or 1. Makes no difference to me. I think he gives the chance to win games but not rings. Past due for a change.