Dak Prescott "Garbage time stats" Question

[LACowboysFan1]

Dak is a turnover machine so far. Can’t do that and expect to win. Let’s play 4 quarters of clean football. Shouldn’t be too much to ask for someone that wants an absurd amount of money.

No. 3 ints in 4 games, and as noted 2 of those were desperation throws that are more likely to be picked. Wentz has 7 ints. Dak has 3 fumbles, Wentz has 4.

There are many other quarterbacks with more than 3 ints, Brady, with over 20 years in the league, has 4. Cousins has 6.

If Dak's a turnover machine, those guys are turnover industries...

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

There is also the group that likes Dak and we know he can be a superbowl winning qb, but do not think he should make Mahomes money because he is not at Mahomes level.

He isn't winning NOW, what happens when he takes up even MORE salary cap space? How are we going to get any defensive help?

Qb's don't win games, teams do. And the TEAM needs an upgrade at several positions. Paying him above his level hurts the team's ability to pay for improvements.

Keep Dak, at a second tier rate of pay and I'm fine with it. Paying him elite money would be stupid.

I don't think the money is real issue here. its just something dak detractors like to bring up.

the problem is we have made all the wrong calls and signed the wrong players on defense. while for whatever reason we seem to keep hitting it on the offensive side.

we have to huge contracts to Jaylon Smith and Lawrence...so Dak's salary or pending salary wasn't an issue to hand out contracts like that, but we are getting zilch out of both...well, I stand corrected we got 0.5 sacks from lawrence in the past 12 games....we could have signed Jones instead of cooper, but we decided to invest on the offensive side. we have drafted awfully on the defensive side, with LVE (always injured, who had injury history), Charlton, Hill, Chidobe, gave up one for cooper, smith and on and on and on. we use premium picks in the draft and take busts or average players. none of the players above are difference makers.

so its not about the money. its about spending our resources and not getting anything in return. imagine if Lawrence given his contract would have had 8 sacks in the past 12 games. or Jaylon smith actually played at the level of his contract and was actually a top 10 LB in the league....we now signed Griffin, who hasn't produced. and have failed to upgrade the saftey in gawd knows how long.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Is it impossible for both sides of the ball to share in the blame?

one side more (way more) than the other...imagine if this defense was just bad enough to give up 32 points a game. would have still been worst in the league, but we would be 3-1

 

[OmerV]

I have noticed a common theme here when it comes to Dak. There are 2 sides of the fence. Those that like him and see that he can lead this team to a Super Bowl. And those that dont like him, no matter how he performs for whatever their reasons are.

Now with that being said. My question hinges on certain statements I have seen on this board about his "garbage time stats".

Now people like to say he pads his stats etc. But the same people then sit there and say he threw a game ending pick to seal the win for the other team.

Now correct me if I am wrong here, but if he is just padding his stats in garbage time. How is he throwing a game ending pick? I mean the game is already over in your eyes. It cant be both. So either he is getting garbage time stats and padding his resume, or he is playing to win and throwing a game ending pick. Pick one. It cant be both.

Fair point.

Other flaws in their argument …

* How is "HE" padding his stats? People make it seem as if Dak is making the decision to pad his stats, when it's actually circumstances that cause the team to throw more.
* Other QBs get credit for stats in games where they get a big lead or fall way behind, so why shouldn't Dak?
* Dak's passing has brought the team back in games they fell behind and gave the team a chance to win, and they actually won the game against Atlanta, so I don't know how those stats were worthless or "garbage".

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Why are you intentionally taking things out of context? Is your viewpoint that difficult to defend?

what context? nothing is taken out of context except for those who want to dismiss the offensive output in the 4th quarter when it mattered.....is that so hard to understand?

 

[Hennessy_King]

Dak (Empty Calories) Prescott......hmmm think we might have something here?

Maybe he has a future selling diet food to Big Mike and our other large folks out there?

Score was tied. Dak gets stripped sack by garrett. they down 21-14 then next offensive play zeke fumbles then they score again and its 14-28. I mean at that point you have to do what you can to get back in the game. Then of course the defense gave up the next 21 points without any short fields lol. You can hang 14 points on the offense but the defense themselves gave up 35 points lol

 

[75boyz]

Question then becomes is Dak capable of putting up monster numbers if the team's not behind? Lots of people criticized Aikman because his stats were so weak, but since he had Emmitt and a power running game he didn't have to throw. But so many say he was an extremely accurate quarterback, in which case there's evidence that if he wanted to, or had to, he could have thrown the ball much more and had many more touchdowns and lots more yardage.

I think we may never find out...

You nailed it. Got his own team out to a lead of 14-7. And then turnovers and it's 28-14 and all of a sudden 41-14.
Then re-enter all the 4th quarter yards while behind and facing deep zone.

Last year's stats against playoff teams say no because the deficits faced against all those teams were all within one score to 10 points at most. So playoff teams did not play prevent and he could not pad his stats.

Against non playoff/ poor team defenses last year he gained most of his stat padded yardage.

But your basic premise is true. Is he a modern day consistent 300 yd passer against non prevent defenses?

Mixed bag, I guess

Good post

Go Cowboys

 

[Pessimist_cowboy]

No. 3 ints in 4 games, and as noted 2 of those were desperation throws that are more likely to be picked. Wentz has 7 ints. Dak has 3 fumbles, Wentz has 4.

There are many other quarterbacks with more than 3 ints, Brady, with over 20 years in the league, has 4. Cousins has 6.

If Dak's a turnover machine, those guys are turnover industries...

If you want to shy away from reality that’s your choice. Those turnovers are the main reason why this team is 1-3. Giving good teams gifts is not a way to win in this league.

 

[HungryLion]

Score was tied. Dak gets stripped sack by garrett. they down 21-14 then next offensive play zeke fumbles then they score again and its 14-28. I mean at that point you have to do what you can to get back in the game. Then of course the defense gave up the next 21 points without any short fields lol. You can hang 14 points on the offense but the defense themselves gave up 35 points lol

And forced zero turnovers.


Zero.



I don’t think people understand how hard it is for nfl teams to win games when their defense literally forces zero turnovers. Like it flies against all the data. You gotta force turnovers.

 

[Aviano90]

No. 3 ints in 4 games, and as noted 2 of those were desperation throws that are more likely to be picked. Wentz has 7 ints. Dak has 3 fumbles, Wentz has 4.

There are many other quarterbacks with more than 3 ints, Brady, with over 20 years in the league, has 4. Cousins has 6.

If Dak's a turnover machine, those guys are turnover industries...

The funny thing is these guys have been clamoring for a QB to "carry the team". They believed Romo could so his stats in losing games were essential to keeping the team competitive and the turnovers were the necessary evil that came along with being a one man show. Now that Dak is carrying the team and turning the ball over the eyes have opened that these mistakes also help lose games despite being the most productive player on a bad team. The question is do they continue being hypocrites, do they give Dak some slack, or do they change their opinion of Romo?

 

[OmerV]

No. 3 ints in 4 games, and as noted 2 of those were desperation throws that are more likely to be picked. Wentz has 7 ints. Dak has 3 fumbles, Wentz has 4.

There are many other quarterbacks with more than 3 ints, Brady, with over 20 years in the league, has 4. Cousins has 6.

If Dak's a turnover machine, those guys are turnover industries...

Of course 2 of those fumbles were strips while trying to throw, which falls on the blocking.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

It’s on both the offense and the defense. Notice that the game was fine until the offense coughed up the ball twice once again on back to back possessions giving the browns short fields, kills any momentum you have. Then the offense decides to stop generating any positive offense until the 4th. Sorry but not sure how you claim that it’s all the defense.

this doesn't change the fact that the defense has problems stopping anyone. in the first 8 possessions they gave up 7 scores. and its not like the dallas offense is unique in having turnovers....all other teams do, so lets not look at it in silo. but other teams, defenses make a stop or 2 along the way. and did you notice, when the defense actually made stops in the late 3rd and 4th quarter, the offense got back in quickly and scored......

Brady and tampa offense threw a pick 6. not just a turnove. a pick 6. but they won...why? because their defense held the other team to 31 points. imagine if our defense could do that...we would be 3-1.

and no matter how you try to dice/slice and spin this. the game was within 3 points with about 4 minutes to go.....and defense gives up 1 50 yard run to a WR at that....seriously....this loss was all on defense....can't spin it any other way.

btw, many teams, week in week out, go a quarter or two without scoring....or even just score 3 points in two quarters, yet they win.....

and why are we dismissing the fact of the offense in the first quarter. getting 200 yards. scoring 14....is that what you expect the offense to do every quarter? every game. score 10-14 points every quarter for this team to have a chance.


seriously

 

[Hennessy_King]

And forced zero turnovers.


Zero.



I don’t think people understand how hard it is for nfl teams to win games when their defense literally forces zero turnovers. Like it flies against all the data. You gotta force turnovers.

We have i think 1 takeaway? right? I think the average for a defense is 1.5 per game. So if we were average we would have 6 takeaways right now.

 

[dckid]

The same people who claim Dak gets garbage time stats also claim "I never felt like we were out of the game" with Romo. It's just an agenda.

Who cares about Romo? I am not a Dak guy, nor am I Romo guy. I want to see this team win after 25 years of garbage!!!
The current team is not fit to win. We really need a GM to come in an honestly evaluate our talent and then make the right decision. This person needs 2-5 years to get the house in order.
My plan would really be to tank, trade Gallup to a desperate team like maybe GB for a first round pick next year. This really might be the year GB could get to a SB. Adams, Gallup, Lazard.. I'ts worth a shot. We are not going to sign Gallup that is for sure.
I love Amari, and I know someone would give up a #1 at least, I could see the Chargers giving up a 1 & 3 for him. Herbert, Allen, Amari & Ekeler... now we are talking about a team to compete with the Chiefs.
Let's try to bottom out, make the decision at QB. If next years class is anything like last years we have a shot a great QB prospect. We will probably not get to the Jets, Denver, Giants level. We would have to purposely tank games and the NFL will not allow that.
Let Dak sign with some other team. I could see Chicago give him 30 a year. The worst that Dak gets is 35 per year if the cap holds in true free agency.
We get all that cap space back, go out and sign some defensive talent, DT, LB, Safety, Corners.

I think the O-line is salvageable, get the guys healthy.

 

[blueblood70]

I have noticed a common theme here when it comes to Dak. There are 2 sides of the fence. Those that like him and see that he can lead this team to a Super Bowl. And those that dont like him, no matter how he performs for whatever their reasons are.

Now with that being said. My question hinges on certain statements I have seen on this board about his "garbage time stats".

Now people like to say he pads his stats etc. But the same people then sit there and say he threw a game ending pick to seal the win for the other team.

Now correct me if I am wrong here, but if he is just padding his stats in garbage time. How is he throwing a game ending pick? I mean the game is already over in your eyes. It cant be both. So either he is getting garbage time stats and padding his resume, or he is playing to win and throwing a game ending pick. Pick one. It cant be both.

when you have a legitimate shot at winning the game its not garbage padding stats IMO..ATL proves its never truly over..

garbage stats are like being down 18 with 2mns left and you get 80yards and td to make it and 11point loss etc

last season a lot of us called it padding stats because nearly 70% of daks positive yardage and TDs came against the worst teams and whn it came time to play the goods defenses the offense all but disappeared,,IMHO its year to year thing, we can take look back after 16 games and see what was real and what was simply stat padding..

making the last game 3 points with what 4mins to go or what not is not stat padding you had legitimate chance to win and all points and stats accumulated trying to win are real..

it can go both ways we can say all that last 100yards CLE got were stat padding because it was at the end? nah its just fan thing

 

[Hennessy_King]

this doesn't change the fact that the defense has problems stopping anyone. in the first 8 possessions they gave up 7 scores. and its not like the dallas offense is unique in having turnovers....all other teams do, so lets not look at it in silo. but other teams, defenses make a stop or 2 along the way. and did you notice, when the defense actually made stops in the late 3rd and 4th quarter, the offense got back in quickly and scored......

Brady and tampa offense threw a pick 6. not just a turnove. a pick 6. but they won...why? because their defense held the other team to 31 points. imagine if our defense could do that...we would be 3-1.

and no matter how you try to dice/slice and spin this. the game was within 3 points with about 4 minutes to go.....and defense gives up 1 50 yard run to a WR at that....seriously....this loss was all on defense....can't spin it any other way.

btw, many teams, week in week out, go a quarter or two without scoring....or even just score 3 points in two quarters, yet they win.....

and why are we dismissing the fact of the offense in the first quarter. getting 200 yards. scoring 14....is that what you expect the offense to do every quarter? every game. score 10-14 points every quarter for this team to have a chance.


seriously

Exactly the people that know and watch football not just the cowboys can see what is happening to this defense is not "normal". Patriots defense gave up 19 points to the chiefs even with their qbs throwing 3 ints.

 

[Aviano90]

Who cares about Romo? I am not a Dak guy, nor am I Romo guy. I want to see this team win after 25 years of garbage!!!
The current team is not fit to win. We really need a GM to come in an honestly evaluate our talent and then make the right decision. This person needs 2-5 years to get the house in order.
My plan would really be to tank, trade Gallup to a desperate team like maybe GB for a first round pick next year. This really might be the year GB could get to a SB. Adams, Gallup, Lazard.. I'ts worth a shot. We are not going to sign Gallup that is for sure.
I love Amari, and I know someone would give up a #1 at least, I could see the Chargers giving up a 1 & 3 for him. Herbert, Allen, Amari & Ekeler... now we are talking about a team to compete with the Chiefs.
Let's try to bottom out, make the decision at QB. If next years class is anything like last years we have a shot a great QB prospect. We will probably not get to the Jets, Denver, Giants level. We would have to purposely tank games and the NFL will not allow that.
Let Dak sign with some other team. I could see Chicago give him 30 a year. The worst that Dak gets is 35 per year if the cap holds in true free agency.
We get all that cap space back, go out and sign some defensive talent, DT, LB, Safety, Corners.

I think the O-line is salvageable, get the guys healthy.

The majority of the Dak hate stems from what occurred in 2016. A lot of people care about Romo. It's the primary reason most people are so critical of Dak. And don't let the salary situation fool you. Most people hated Dak when he was making $465k a year and significantly outperforming his contract.

If you're not one of those posters, then good for you. But it helps to understand why something is occurring.

 

[Hennessy_King]

when you have a legitimate shot at winning the game its not garbage padding stats IMO..ATL proves its never truly over..

garbage stats are like being down 18 with 2mns left and you get 80yards and td to make it and 11point loss etc

last season a lot of us called it padding stats because nearly 70% of daks positive yardage and TDs came against the worst teams and whn it came time to play the goods defenses the offense all but disappeared,,IMHO its year to year thing, we can take look back after 16 games and see what was real and what was simply stat padding..

making the last game 3 points with what 4mins to go or what not is not stat padding you had legitimate chance to win and all points and stats accumulated trying to win are real..

it can go both ways we can say all that last 100yards CLE got were stat padding because it was at the end? nah its just fan thing

Exactly i mean the fact we are within 3 and the defense gives up a 50 yard td run had the be the most disgusting i've seen in a long time.

 

[StuckMojo]

When you have a terrible defense you need to control the clock and keep the other offense on the bench. But I don’t believe Moore is capable of a ball control offense because he seems lost in scheming a running game. Also our offense has to hold onto the ball and cut out the turnovers.

 

[dckid]

The majority of the Dak hate stems from what occurred in 2016. A lot of people care about Romo. It's the primary reason most people are so critical of Dak. And don't let the salary situation fool you. Most people hated Dak when he was making $465k a year and significantly outperforming his contract.

If you're not one of those posters, then good for you. But it helps to understand why something is occurring.

Dak and Romo are literally functionally equivalent. Good QB's. period, full stop Nothing more.
For them to win a SB, they need to pull an Eli Manning, Brad Johnson. In the era of Elite QB's neither one of these guys can win a SB.
Dak will never be as good as the elite guys... just wont happen