Dak vs Deshaun Watson

[Aerolithe_Lion]

you actually are talking up Garrett!? really....

garrett has a lot of good resources...regardless of what rounds they were drafted. Kurt Warner was literally bagging groceries and two years later he won the superbowl and is in HOF now....it doesn't matter where the players are drafted and how they get in the NFL, once you know their talent, its your job to maximize... Garrett's scheme's were ok, not much different than rest of NFL, but he never adjusted to today's NFL and his problem was game day management. he had a tendency to grab defeat from jaws of victory way too often. his play calling on game days left a lot to be desired. I give him credit though, he managed Jerry fairly well.

Yeah he was problematic as a head coach and was kept on way too long, but in the context of comparing him directly to Bill O’Brien… he does not come out poorly.

I understand Cowboys fans having a particular grudge against Garrett, but go on a Texans forum some time and ask how they felt about BOB. Half-jokingly, I’m even willing to bet some would have served prison time if it meant getting him away from the franchise.

Garrett was a failure, BOB was reviled.

 

[Future]

Accuracy

Deshaun Watson is the single most accurate Quarterback who's ever lived. No, Seriously.

Quarterback Accuracy, Career

Dak's up there too, but not where Deshaun is. And Dak's accuracy is actually going down as he's asked to throw it more. 65.9% his last 2 years, vs 67.8% his rookie year.


Proficiency

Proficiency is the point where efficiency meets prolificity. We've established Deshaun is highly accurate, but in 2020 he had a historically prolific season as well. He completed 70% of his passes in 2020, which does seem to be a recurring achievement amongst QBs the last 5 years or so. But not at the crazy rate he was doing it: Deshaun Watson led the entire NFL in yards per attempt in 2020, at 8.9 It is the highest yards per attempt for a 70% completion passer in NFL history. He wasn't dinking and dunking, he wasn't playing it safe, he was straight up bombing the ball downfield... and maintaining 70%. For comparison's sake, Drew Brees never had a YPA season higher than 8.3.

Additionally, Deshaun didn't exactly have a Dallas offense around him. The only team's QB's who were sacked more than DW were Wentz/Hurts. 31st in pass protection. Texans were also 31st in rushing yards, you knew what they were going to do on offense. Also don't forget this is the season AFTER they traded away the NFL's best WR. Led league in ypa, yards, completion percentage. Drew Brees is the only other quarterback in NFL history to throw for 4800+ yards in a season at 70% completion. For comparison, Dak's 4900 season in 2019 was at a 65% clip. Craziest part of this stat is Deshaun was only 13th in attempts! He is the only QB in NFL history to lead the league in passing yards despite not being in the top 10 in attempts. In a season where Brady played like he did, Rodgers played like he did, Mahomes played like he did, it's pretty nuts.

Deep Ball Passing

We'll stick to 2019 for this one, as it was Dak's last full season, Dak's best season, and not Deshaun's impossible 2020 to make it fairer. Dak was heralded for his deep ball passing in 2019, being amongst the league's leaders, but lets look at how that played out a little deeper.

Above we see Deshaun amongst the top of the league in deep ball accuracy, but Dak is actually not too far behind. However, this is a list of 20 yards or greater, what is generally considered a deep ball. If we move the sticks to 30+ yards, it looks a bit different:

Deshaun remains amongst the most accurate QB's at throwing the deeper passes (far right column), while Dak drops all the way between Jacoby Brissett and Mitchell Trubisky. If you notice the green column in the middle, thats passes between 20-30 yards, and Dak's completion percentage there is unusually high... that's what's inflating his overall deep completion percentage. If you want a 23 yard post, Dak is as good as any. But if you want to go for the big one... also notice Deshaun has 20 completions of 20+ yards in 2019, easily the most of anyone. He's really good at it and he knows it.



Probably some other categories where Deshaun looks pretty good, but these are the 3 that stand out the most to me.

These lack co

Accuracy

Deshaun Watson is the single most accurate Quarterback who's ever lived. No, Seriously.

Quarterback Accuracy, Career

Dak's up there too, but not where Deshaun is. And Dak's accuracy is actually going down as he's asked to throw it more. 65.9% his last 2 years, vs 67.8% his rookie year.


Proficiency

Proficiency is the point where efficiency meets prolificity. We've established Deshaun is highly accurate, but in 2020 he had a historically prolific season as well. He completed 70% of his passes in 2020, which does seem to be a recurring achievement amongst QBs the last 5 years or so. But not at the crazy rate he was doing it: Deshaun Watson led the entire NFL in yards per attempt in 2020, at 8.9 It is the highest yards per attempt for a 70% completion passer in NFL history. He wasn't dinking and dunking, he wasn't playing it safe, he was straight up bombing the ball downfield... and maintaining 70%. For comparison's sake, Drew Brees never had a YPA season higher than 8.3.

Additionally, Deshaun didn't exactly have a Dallas offense around him. The only team's QB's who were sacked more than DW were Wentz/Hurts. 31st in pass protection. Texans were also 31st in rushing yards, you knew what they were going to do on offense. Also don't forget this is the season AFTER they traded away the NFL's best WR. Led league in ypa, yards, completion percentage. Drew Brees is the only other quarterback in NFL history to throw for 4800+ yards in a season at 70% completion. For comparison, Dak's 4900 season in 2019 was at a 65% clip. Craziest part of this stat is Deshaun was only 13th in attempts! He is the only QB in NFL history to lead the league in passing yards despite not being in the top 10 in attempts. In a season where Brady played like he did, Rodgers played like he did, Mahomes played like he did, it's pretty nuts.

Deep Ball Passing

We'll stick to 2019 for this one, as it was Dak's last full season, Dak's best season, and not Deshaun's impossible 2020 to make it fairer. Dak was heralded for his deep ball passing in 2019, being amongst the league's leaders, but lets look at how that played out a little deeper.

Above we see Deshaun amongst the top of the league in deep ball accuracy, but Dak is actually not too far behind. However, this is a list of 20 yards or greater, what is generally considered a deep ball. If we move the sticks to 30+ yards, it looks a bit different:

Deshaun remains amongst the most accurate QB's at throwing the deeper passes (far right column), while Dak drops all the way between Jacoby Brissett and Mitchell Trubisky. If you notice the green column in the middle, thats passes between 20-30 yards, and Dak's completion percentage there is unusually high... that's what's inflating his overall deep completion percentage. If you want a 23 yard post, Dak is as good as any. But if you want to go for the big one... also notice Deshaun has 20 completions of 20+ yards in 2019, easily the most of anyone. He's really good at it and he knows it.



Probably some other categories where Deshaun looks pretty good, but these are the 3 that stand out the most to me.

Because stats don’t have meaning without context. We all hope for meaning

There's no context to any of this, so there is no meaning.

Key contextual items missing:
- Drop %
- Game score
- Time of game
- Weather
- Defensive quality
- Down and distance
- Separation

 

[Whyjerry]

that's like trying to figure out who is shietier....race to the bottom LOL

In 6 full seasons BO made the playoffs 4 times. 4 times divisional winner. In 9 full seasons Garrett went to the playoffs 3 times. 3. BO is a much better coach.

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

In 6 full seasons BO made the playoffs 4 times. 4 times divisional winner. In 9 full seasons Garrett went to the playoffs 3 times. 3. BO is a much better coach.

Conversely, Jason Garrett won 12 games in his fourth season as head coach. BOB didn’t even win 10 games until his fifth season. Garrett led a team to a first round bye twice… BOB has never done that. What Bill O’Brien HAS done is lead his team to 2 4-win seasons (second was when he got fired partway through for failing to win a single game). Garrett in 9 full years had 1 losing record.

The 4 playoff appearances you mentioned? Came at the behest of Marcus Mariota who’s no longer a starting QB, came against Blake Bortles who’s no longer a starting QB, and twice came against the guy who replaced Luck when he was injured/retired suddenly.

The AFC South was handed to BOB on a silver platter (as shown by 2 of his division championships being 9 win teams).

Here’s a fun stat about BOB: his playoff defeats were by an average of 21 points. His superior offensive mind averaged 13.5 points in those games. How many times did Garrett get blown out in the playoffs? Was it every time? Was there even any time?

 

[Cowboy4ever]

From a QB talent stand point - Watson is more talented. If Dak had the OL that Watson has had, I doubt anyone is even talking about Dak, as he is prob a backup or out of the league. But in all other areas including injuries, leadership, off the field, etc Dak is light years ahead of Watson.

 

[Cowboy4ever]

In 6 full seasons BO made the playoffs 4 times. 4 times divisional winner. In 9 full seasons Garrett went to the playoffs 3 times. 3. BO is a much better coach.

is this serious? BOB was a HORRIBLE coach and even worse GM. His ONLY saving grace is that he coached during a time the AFC South was complete trash. The NFC East may not have been much better but it was not the dumpster fire the AFC South was. And while I know people hate Garrett, I get it.. but really.. the Texans were is so bad of shape player wise, cap wise, draft wise, they couldn't even get a coach.. compare that to how Garrett left the Cowboys. Its not even close.

 

[Whyjerry]

is this serious? BOB was a HORRIBLE coach and even worse GM. His ONLY saving grace is that he coached during a time the AFC South was complete trash. The NFC East may not have been much better but it was not the dumpster fire the AFC South was. And while I know people hate Garrett, I get it.. but really.. the Texans were is so bad of shape player wise, cap wise, draft wise, they couldn't even get a coach.. compare that to how Garrett left the Cowboys. Its not even close.

How Garrett left the Cowboys? They were 6-10 and have a losing culture. The records of the 2 stand.

 

[Whyjerry]

Conversely, Jason Garrett won 12 games in his fourth season as head coach. BOB didn’t even win 10 games until his fifth season. Garrett led a team to a first round bye twice… BOB has never done that. What Bill O’Brien HAS done is lead his team to 2 4-win seasons (second was when he got fired partway through for failing to win a single game). Garrett in 9 full years had 1 losing record.

The 4 playoff appearances you mentioned? Came at the behest of Marcus Mariota who’s no longer a starting QB, came against Blake Bortles who’s no longer a starting QB, and twice came against the guy who replaced Luck when he was injured/retired suddenly.

The AFC South was handed to BOB on a silver platter (as shown by 2 of his division championships being 9 win teams).

Here’s a fun stat about BOB: his playoff defeats were by an average of 21 points. His superior offensive mind averaged 13.5 points in those games. How many times did Garrett get blown out in the playoffs? Was it every time? Was there even any time?

You guys are nuts. When was the last time the Commanders and Giants were contenders? The NFCE has been average to below for years.

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

You guys are nuts. When was the last time the Commanders and Giants were contenders? The NFCE has been average to below for years.

And the Eagles progressively built and fielded a super bowl champion during Garrett’s tenure, and the Giants fielded a super bowl champion during Garrett’s tenure. Actually the only division to have multiple champions in that span (Only if counting KC won after Garrett was already fired).

But yeah, the Football Teamers did usually suck.

 

[Whyjerry]

And the Eagles progressively built and fielded a super bowl champion during Garrett’s tenure, and the Giants fielded a super bowl champion during Garrett’s tenure. Actually the only division to have multiple champions in that span (Only if counting KC won after Garrett was already fired).
But yeah, the Football Teamers did usually suck.

The Giants made the playoffs twice in Garrett’s 10 years. Twice. Please do a better job than that. Be better.

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

The Giants made the playoffs twice in Garrett’s 10 years. Twice. Please do a better job than that. Be better.

Yeah and one of those was the NFL Champion NY Giants.

But you want me to be Better than the Jaguars who made the playoffs only once during BOB’s reign? That much better? Or perhaps The Colts who made it the same number of times the Giants did before BOB got fired? Or perhaps the Tennessee Titans who ALSO made it the same number of times the giants did before BOB got fired? If the Giants were in the AFC South in that period they’d fit right in.

Hows that for better?

 

[Whyjerry]

Yeah and one of those was the NFL Champion NY Giants.

But you want me to be Better than the Jaguars who made the playoffs only once during BOB’s reign? That much better? Or perhaps The Colts who made it the same number of times the Giants did before BOB got fired? Or perhaps the Tennessee Titans who ALSO made it the same number of times the giants did before BOB got fired? If the Giants were in the AFC South in that period they’d fit right in.

Hows that for better?

Not really. If you just looked at their records you wouldn’t sound like such a yutz.

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

Not really. If you just looked at their records you wouldn’t sound like such a yutz.

I did. BOB has never won 12 games in his life. Garrett has multiple times. When BOB won his division, it was with 9 and 10 win teams edging out organizations in perpetual rebuild. When Garret did, he won 12 and 13 games while absolutely dominating the competition. Your team in 2016 was strong, one of the best in Cowboys history (and with a rookie QB no less). BOB did get fired mid season for going ohfer though, he’ll always have that feather in his hat.

 

[Whyjerry]

I did. BOB has never won 12 games in his life. Garrett has multiple times. When BOB won his division, it was with 9 and 10 win teams edging out organizations in perpetual rebuild. When Garret did, he won 12 and 13 games while absolutely dominating the competition. Your team in 2016 was strong, one of the best in Cowboys history (and with a rookie QB no less). BOB did get fired mid season for going ohfer though, he’ll always have that feather in his hat.

Whatever dude. You clearly love Garrett. 10 years. 2 playoff wins. The guy sucked. He won’t even be able to keep his OC job much longer.

 

[America's Cowboy]

you win championships by passing better

Watson is a significantly better passer. Just look at the numbers posted by Aerolithe in the thread. And this is despite Dak having a way way better OL and receiving core and RB

Wrong.

The Texans ended up with the 23rd out of 32 ranked Olines by the end of the 2020 season...

While the Cowboys ended up with the 27th ranked Oline, much worse than the Texans.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2020-offensive-line-rankings

 

[America's Cowboy]

If Dak and Watson would've switched teams 4 years ago we'd have a ring by now.

 

[Captain-Crash]

what's Deshaun Watson doing on this? He sucks.

Rank Player Rate Years Tm
1 Patrick Mahomes 108.7 2017-2020 kan
2 Deshaun Watson 104.5 2017-2020 htx
3 Aaron Rodgers 103.9 2005-2020 gnb
4 Russell Wilson 101.7 2012-2020 sea
5 Drew Brees 98.7 2001-2020 2TM
6 Kirk Cousins 97.9 2012-2020 2TM
7 Tom Brady 97.3 2000-2020 2TM
Dak Prescott 97.3 2016-2020 dal
9 Tony Romo 97.1 2004-2016 dal
10 Steve Young+ 96.8 1985-1999 2TM

 

[Captain-Crash]

And what's Cousin doing on that list with 9 years of stats verse 5 years of stats from the legend. These stats lie.

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

Whatever dude. You clearly love Garrett. 10 years. 2 playoff wins. The guy sucked. He won’t even be able to keep his OC job much longer.

Oh no, Garrett should have been fired years ago. But when comparing a rotten apple to a pre-digested one, well…

Garret was fired because he took teams with high expectations and disappointed. BOB got fired because he lost his team, no one enjoyed playing for him, he threw away maybe the best player in team history purely out of spite, and he got blown out every time he did manage to make the playoffs.

Jason Garrett kept the seat warm for Mike McCarthy. BOB set the Texans back… 5 years? More? Deshaun Watson isn’t demanding to get out if they had real leadership. They’re depleted of talent, still don’t have any first round picks, and are about to lose their franchise QB. BOB didn’t just get himself fired, he got the next guy fired too. Now that’s bad.

 

[basel90]

all the stats out there say Dak is better in some areas. Watson in others and all the stats are very close..... he didn't play in CCG (as your buddy says, you just lied LOL), he played in the divisional round and lost.
so perhaps your made up facts/rules help you to form your opinion. your choice

Yes my mistake ( not a lie ) it was divisional game against KC not CCG . They had the 24-0 lead in that game before KC came back .