Dak vs. Romo - Deep passing

[AdamJT13]

No you're looking at total yards passes went regardless if it was YAC or AY

Those are broken down by distance as in how far the pass was thrown, not the yardage gained on the play.

 

[TwoDeep3]

Cough Torrin Tucker...

Some people are brand new...

Romo made Austin, Crayton, and Robinson look like world stars.

He also sat on the bench being tutored by Sean Payton and Bill Parcells. Not trying to suggest he and Dak are the same. My point is it seems the people on this site, and I am one, jump to conclusions rather quickly. Maybe we just need to give this kid a little time before we get out the torches.

 

[Aviano90]

No you're looking at total yards passes went regardless if it was YAC or AY

No I'm not. It's from the splits and it is measuing how far the passes were thrown from LOS. Here is a link to one of the "splits" for Dak's on the 2017 stats. It is the 2nd set of stats from the bottom. This is not measuring the total yards of the play.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/2577417/dak-prescott

 

[Bullflop]

Holy Christ -- Dal vs. Romo? How realistic or fair is that from the get-go? I've seen enough of this thread. It's absurd. As a rookie, Romo was no better than Dak. Nuts to this!

 

[Angus12]

I also think a lot of people forget that Romo had the luxury of T.O taking slants for 80 yards and drumming up his stats lol

Gotta love facts

Yep. Love facts.

Except these facts don't really mach up with your claim. In 2006, Terrell Owens' longest reception was 56 yards. In 2007? 52 yards. In 2008, he got a little closer. 75 yards.

I guess Romo's stats weren't drummed up as much as you were saying.

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/terrell-owens-player-stats

 

[Galian Beast]

No I'm not. It's from the splits and it is measuing how far the passes were thrown from LOS. Here is a link to one of the "splits" for Dak's on the 2017 stats. It is the 2nd set of stats from the bottom. This is not measuring the total yards of the play.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/2577417/dak-prescott

Thanks for clarifying, but I can't help but notice you left off some really important numbers.

Let's compare 2014 and 2017.

Romo had 83 attempts between 11-20 yards. Romo hit on 57.8 percent of these passes.
Dak had 98 attempts between 11-20 yards. Dak hit on 44.9 percent of these passes.

What about further?

Romo had 25 attempts between 21-30 yards. Romo hit on 60 percent of these passes.
Dak had 22 attempts between 21-30 yards. He hit on 31.8 percent of these passes.

41+

Romo had 7 attempts and hit 42.9 percent of these passes.
Dak had 6 attempts and hit on only 33.3 percent of these passes.

So it isn't just that he attempts fewer of these really long passes, but that with his poor down field accuracy he also hits on fewer.

Just for the record this is what Romo did in 2007

11-20 yards, 128 attempts, hit on 50 percent of them
21-30 yards, 64 attempts, hit on 44.2 percent of them
31-40 yards, 14 attempts, hit on 50 percent of them


I think it's hilarious people even want to have this conversation.

 

[Super_Kazuya]

Yep. Love facts.

Except these facts don't really mach up with your claim. In 2006, Terrell Owens' longest reception was 56 yards. In 2007? 52 yards. In 2008, he got a little closer. 75 yards.

I guess Romo's stats weren't drummed up as much as you were saying.

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/terrell-owens-player-stats

If only there was a video where we could verify the authenticity of a claim

I would say out of all the plays in this video, 3 maybe 4 of them you could say T.O. generated the bulk of the yardage with his feet. The rest were generated by the flight of the ball, and there were a LOT of bombs.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Those are broken down by distance as in how far the pass was thrown, not the yardage gained on the play.

the main issue I see with those accuracy stats is what is deemed accurate. What I often see with Dak is that he is close but the ball is not consistently placed where the leverage dictates.

You will see the DB with inside leverage and the ball ends up inside. Trail position and the ball is thrown short etc.

So if the ball is within a yard of the receiver it is counted as a catchable ball but it is not necessarily a properly leveraged throw. Close is not only for horseshoes and hand grenades.

 

[Cowboyz88]

Dak could, and hopefully will, win the freaking Super Bowl and the same old fans wouldn’t be happy because their prescious Romo didn’t win it.

Dak has shown a whole lot of “it” (with accompanying and often overlooked stats), yet fans still yearn for Romo.

The idolization of Romo is beyond unbearable at this point.

 

[AdamJT13]

Thanks for clarifying, but I can't help but notice you left off some really important numbers.

Let's compare 2014 and 2017.

So you're comparing Romo's best season -- when he had the sixth-highest passer rating of all-time -- to Dak's worst season?

Romo had 83 attempts between 11-20 yards. Romo hit on 57.8 percent of these passes.
Dak had 98 attempts between 11-20 yards. Dak hit on 44.9 percent of these passes.

What about further?

Romo had 25 attempts between 21-30 yards. Romo hit on 60 percent of these passes.
Dak had 22 attempts between 21-30 yards. He hit on 31.8 percent of these passes.

41+

Romo had 7 attempts and hit 42.9 percent of these passes.
Dak had 6 attempts and hit on only 33.3 percent of these passes.

Again, the key comparison in this thread is how OFTEN each quarterback throws deep.

As your own numbers confirm, the difference is not significant.

 

[AdamJT13]

the main issue I see with those accuracy stats is what is deemed accurate. What I often see with Dak is that he is close but the ball is not consistently placed where the leverage dictates.

You will see the DB with inside leverage and the ball ends up inside. Trail position and the ball is thrown short etc.

So if the ball is within a yard of the receiver it is counted as a catchable ball but it is not necessarily a properly leveraged throw. Close is not only for horseshoes and hand grenades.

If every quarterback is measured exactly the same way, do you really think Dak's accuracy stats are any more "misleading" than those for other quarterbacks? Or is he somehow the only one who benefits?

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

If every quarterback is measured exactly the same way, do you really think Dak's accuracy stats are any more "misleading" than those for other quarterbacks? Or is he somehow the only one who benefits?

Sure. QBs that are pinpoint in their accuracy are not differentiated as such while QBs that are close are conflated with them. If you want to discuss specifics great but begging the question is not an argument. You are not arguing the mechanics I am talking about at all.

Fact is once you start putting in concepts like "catchable" and the like it is important to discuss the ramifications. Dak struggles to place balls according to leverage and it is worse the farther it is down the field. when his mechanics get bad it absolutely goes in the toilet.

 

[Galian Beast]

So you're comparing Romo's best season -- when he had the sixth-highest passer rating of all-time -- to Dak's worst season?




Again, the key comparison in this thread is how OFTEN each quarterback throws deep.

As your own numbers confirm, the difference is not significant.

Adam, you're smarter than this.

I compared Romo's last season, given this was his ability before the team decided to move away from him. Despite health concerns, Romo was peak Romo. Not to mention I also gave numbers for his 2nd season which you ignored...

And as I said, it isn't just about how often the QBs throw deep, but rather also how effective they are when they do it.

 

[Galian Beast]

If every quarterback is measured exactly the same way, do you really think Dak's accuracy stats are any more "misleading" than those for other quarterbacks? Or is he somehow the only one who benefits?

His accuracy beyond 20 yards is especially questionable.

 

[Cowboyz88]

Fuzzy and Galian bagging on Dak. Shocked.

Add WillieBeamon and we can start taking roll.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Fuzzy and Galian bagging on Dak. Shocked.

Add WillieBeamon and we can start taking roll.

I am not always negative about Dak. I love his leadership, his ability to run playfakes, his mobility, his pocket presence, and while his accuracy is not pin point it is still pretty good particularly at intermediate ranges. I didn't think Aikman threw a good deep ball either; it certainly does not preclude success.

You actually want to discuss the issue or just whine because not everything said about Dak is sunshine and rainbows?

 

[HungryLion]

I am not always negative about Dak. I love his leadership, his ability to run playfakes, his mobility, his pocket presence, and while his accuracy is not pin point it is still pretty good particularly at intermediate ranges. I didn't think Aikman threw a good deep ball either; it certainly does not preclude success.

You actually want to discuss the issue or just whine because not everything said about Dak is sunshine and rainbows?

A fair and reasonable assessment.

 

[Galian Beast]

Fuzzy and Galian bagging on Dak. Shocked.

Add WillieBeamon and we can start taking roll.

Similarly to Fuzzy, I think Dak could have been a decent successor under the right circumstances. I don't think he is being done any favors, nor do I think the team is being done favors with him starting right now either. He's just not an elite QB, and at this rate, I don't think he ever will be.

 

[AdamJT13]

Sure. QBs that are pinpoint in their accuracy are not differentiated as such while QBs that are close are conflated with them. If you want to discuss specifics great but begging the question is not an argument. You are not arguing the mechanics I am talking about at all.

So do you think it's better to have a quarterback who either has pinpoint accuracy or is terribly off-target, resulting in fewer catchable passes overall, than to have a quarterback who throws more catchable passes?

Fact is once you start putting in concepts like "catchable" and the like it is important to discuss the ramifications.

Yes, because once the ball leaves the quarterback's hand, he does not control whether the pass is caught.

Dak struggles to place balls according to leverage and it is worse the farther it is down the field.

So all of those different analyses that name Dak as one of the most accurate deep passers are incorrect? Because Fuzzy Lumpkins says so?

 

[Aviano90]

Thanks for clarifying, but I can't help but notice you left off some really important numbers.

Let's compare 2014 and 2017.

Romo had 83 attempts between 11-20 yards. Romo hit on 57.8 percent of these passes.
Dak had 98 attempts between 11-20 yards. Dak hit on 44.9 percent of these passes.

What about further?

Romo had 25 attempts between 21-30 yards. Romo hit on 60 percent of these passes.
Dak had 22 attempts between 21-30 yards. He hit on 31.8 percent of these passes.

41+

Romo had 7 attempts and hit 42.9 percent of these passes.
Dak had 6 attempts and hit on only 33.3 percent of these passes.

So it isn't just that he attempts fewer of these really long passes, but that with his poor down field accuracy he also hits on fewer.

Just for the record this is what Romo did in 2007

11-20 yards, 128 attempts, hit on 50 percent of them
21-30 yards, 64 attempts, hit on 44.2 percent of them
31-40 yards, 14 attempts, hit on 50 percent of them


I think it's hilarious people even want to have this conversation.

I made the post because I think it is hilarious people think Dak does nothing but dink and dunk and the raw numbers indicate he throws the ball downfield about the same rate as Romo did for his career. That was the point.

As for your point, yes Romo had years that we’re better. That also means he had years that were worse.

This thread wasn’t intended to try and determine who was the better downfield passer but rather Dak, does indeed, throw the ball down the field at the rate this offense has done over a period of time where they had a QB performing at a level some people to consider Hall of Fame worthy.

Do you dispute that or can you shed light as to why fans are now upset we aren’t passing the ball deep more often than we have been or why they haven’t been upset about lack of deep passing until 2016?