Dak vs. Romo - Deep passing

[charron]

How many years of Romo throwing interceptions trying to complete those "passes" did it take before he finally became the QB he did?
Lol, you guys act like we had 2014 Romo his entire career which is BULL****.
Romo lost us damn near as many games as he won us with his style of play.

I am amazed at all the Dak hate when we're so incredibly lucky to even have the chance of him being a franchise QB...how many franchises throw away years of draft picks trying to find one and we could have potentially found one in the 4th round? EVERYBODY should be rooting so hard for this kid to figure it out and succeed. He doesn't have to be Rodgers or Brady he just needs to be able to contribute enough to the TEAM enough we can win games. He's a young DEVELOPING QB who like every other QB needs time to do so. People who expect a second year QB to delivering Rodgers type numbers are insane, that would be great sure but it's completely unrealistic. With the start to his career Dak has had he deserves time to develop.
If Dak was a 1st round pick he'd be given every chance to ensure he developed until we knew 10000% fact he wasn't what we need here. If we're gonna cut him loose and find someone else we better be damned sure he's not a franchise QB. It'd be sad to see him go to another team and become a decent QB.

Completely wrong. Agreed that romo took alot of chances but he had to most years. 1. He lacked a stud at rb excluding barber who had 1 maybe 2 decent years and 1 great year with murray. Romo also had 1 full year with a great offensive line, even though many still called for free's head daily. We only had a really good defense in 2007 then blew it to heck in 2008. Romo also lesd the league in come from behind wins....that means teams knew he was throwing and he did it anyway. Dak fans continue to blame his struggles on other players....just let me know when dak is the person that carries this team to a win. The issue is being able to afford a good supporting cast once dak gets his 2nd contract. If he is making less than 20 mil a year no problem but if he needs more then it may be hard to pay for enough talent to win deep playoff games. That was more the issue with romo, same with rogers and other elite qb's.

 

[jay94]

I don't care what stats say, sure Romo couldn't run for the first down and Dak is still very young, but at this point the two aren't close. I would also argue Dak has had better talent in his two years than Romo had 95% of his career.

 

[Galian Beast]

Completely wrong. Agreed that romo took alot of chances but he had to most years. 1. He lacked a stud at rb excluding barber who had 1 maybe 2 decent years and 1 great year with murray. Romo also had 1 full year with a great offensive line, even though many still called for free's head daily. We only had a really good defense in 2007 then blew it to heck in 2008. Romo also lesd the league in come from behind wins....that means teams knew he was throwing and he did it anyway. Dak fans continue to blame his struggles on other players....just let me know when dak is the person that carries this team to a win. The issue is being able to afford a good supporting cast once dak gets his 2nd contract. If he is making less than 20 mil a year no problem but if he needs more then it may be hard to pay for enough talent to win deep playoff games. That was more the issue with romo, same with rogers and other elite qb's.

Can't recall Romo having 8 games in a season with less than 200 yards passing... 15 games under 300. 6 games without a passing touchdown...

 

[408Cowboy]

What were romo's stats his first two years?

 

[Aviano90]

What were romo's stats his first two years?

I have the actual numbers at work, but I believe his numbers were better than his career average and better than Dak's first 2 years.

 

[408Cowboy]

I have the actual numbers at work, but I believe his numbers were better than his career average and better than Dak's first 2 years.

He was on the bench he didn't have any stats

 

[Irvin88_4life]

Once again you are making my case, he isn't as good as his numbers can allude to.

What are you taking about. You realize Aikman was terrible his first few years. You got this backwards, Dak is better then his numbers.

 

[Aviano90]

He was on the bench he didn't have any stats

LOL. Got me.

 

[AdamJT13]

I have never seen you petulant, Adam. it is an interesting look for you. That is an adorable strawman; I never said that terribly off-target was better.

Fact is that "catchable" throws do not consider DB leverage when they are "dropped" and as such it is misleading. That goes doubly so when you have these miniscule samples that make up Dak's deep throw dataset. 3 or 4 extra misses would be huge considering the denominators.

When Dak throws inside into inside leverage it is not a good throw amd with vice versa and the perpendicular orientation. QBs are taught to place the ball opposite the leverage for a reason. Watching Dak's deep ball cut ups it becomes exceedingly obvious how this is an issue.

If you cannot actually discuss the mechanics behind the statistics and continue to go with this childish form of retort instead then that is extremely disappointing.

So you are claiming that Dak's accuracy numbers from three different sources are all misleading because, unlike every other quarterback, he somehow benefits from what is considered "accurate," and you accuse me of setting up a straw man by pointing out the obvious flaw in your claim? Interesting.

And even if "accurate" passes include those that aren't precisely perfect, that still doesn't explain why having a higher percentage of accurate passes but fewer precise passes (if that's even the case for Dak) is somehow worse than having more precise passes but a lower percentage of accurate ("catchable") passes overall -- especially when inaccurate passes are more likely to be intercepted.

 

[AdamJT13]

2014 was Romo's last full season, and 2017 was Prescott's last full season. 2017 was also Prescott's 2nd year and I also threw in 2007 which was Romo's 2nd year as a starter.

As I've said, not only does Romo go deeper than Prescott more often through out his career, particularly when the team was built to do so, but he was always more accurate when he did.

QB rating on such a small sample size? You must have been hacked...

It's downright hilarious that you would use "small sample size" to dismiss the EXACT SAME STATS you used in your post. Actually, my sample was a LARGER sample size because I combined three splits to avoid using such a small sample size.

Or did you forget that you actually compared SEVEN whole attempts for Romo to SIX whole attempts for Dak?

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

So you are claiming that Dak's accuracy numbers from three different sources are all misleading because, unlike every other quarterback, he somehow benefits from what is considered "accurate," and you accuse me of setting up a straw man by pointing out the obvious flaw in your claim? Interesting.

And even if "accurate" passes include those that aren't precisely perfect, that still doesn't explain why having a higher percentage of accurate passes but fewer precise passes (if that's even the case for Dak) is somehow worse than having more precise passes but a lower percentage of accurate ("catchable") passes overall -- especially when inaccurate passes are more likely to be intercepted.

Sure it explains it. The drops are dropped from the attempts total which inflates completion percentage and YPA. That is my central point that you don't once acknowledge.

I never claimed that strawman you insist on but someone who is terribly inaccurate won't be close so he will not get the benefit from drops that Dak does.

And the issue is not "aren't precisely perfect." I have been talking about leverage and leveraging throws and stating that Dak does not have good ball placement downfield. Try talking in those terms if you are trying to restate my argument. At the very least demonstrate how it is irrelevant.

 

[Melonfeud]

Unfortunately, this data is just for the actual yards of the play and not for the air yards traveled. So while I believe that the analysis is still fine as a blunt tool, it is not necessarily indicative of the depths of the field to which a QB will throw.
Romo shouldn’t be confused with Dan Fouts, but he was very willing to throw the ball to the deep middle of the field. Dak is just a dink and dunk guy.
Here’s a stat for Dak slobberers to chew on: under Dak “The Mad Bomber” Prescott, the Cowboys are 31st in the league in 20 yard pass plays since 2016:

http://pfref.com/tiny/GIERf

As is usually the norm, it's generally the THREADS Apex once
Super_Kazuya decides to participate,,,








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[Galian Beast]

It's downright hilarious that you would use "small sample size" to dismiss the EXACT SAME STATS you used in your post. Actually, my sample was a LARGER sample size because I combined three splits to avoid using such a small sample size.

Or did you forget that you actually compared SEVEN whole attempts for Romo to SIX whole attempts for Dak?

I wasn't looking at qb rating... And all I did was give an entire breakdown, I never highlighted one area to suggest that was the definitive proof as you hilariously just did.

Adam, you've gone off the deep end.

 

[HellCrowe]

I don't think that's the point of this thread. I think the point is people have become fascinated with the "deep ball" even though it wasn't something Romo did much better. It's just a easy and lazy criticism to have of Dak.

I beg to differ. There’s a lot of back and forth pointing out Daks ability to throw the deep pass. See video posted, see accuracy %s of deep passes, etc. It’s like a double rainbow. It happens but how many have we actually seen?

 

[DandyDon1722]

I also think a lot of people forget that Romo had the luxury of T.O taking slants for 80 yards and drumming up his stats lol

That's what receivers are supposed to do lol. Somewhere, Montana, Young and Rice are laughing.

 

[Aviano90]

I beg to differ. There’s a lot of back and forth pointing out Daks ability to throw the deep pass. See video posted, see accuracy %s of deep passes, etc. It’s like a double rainbow. It happens but how many have we actually seen?

How about I keep it as neutral as possible. In the Jason Garrett era we haven't thrown the ball deep a lot and need/needed to do it more often regardless of who the the QB is?

 

[CowboyRoy]

It appears Cowboys fans have become fascinated with deep passing since Dak took over as QB. I have compiled the career totals for Dak and Romo using data obtained on ESPN under "Splits" for each QB. It will list the passing stats based upon distance thrown. Here is what the breakdown looks like for the 2 QBs showing the % of total passes thrown for each distance followed by the completion % at each distance.

Romo
Behind LOS - 15.5% of total passes; 79.2% completion percentage
1-10 yards - 51.8% of total passes; 71.5% completion percentage
11-20 yards - 22% of total passes; 54.8% completion percentage
21-30 yards - 6.6% of total passes; 39.6% completion percentage
31-40 yards - 2.9% of total passes; 36% completion percentage
41+ yards - 1.1% of total passes; 28.6% completion percentage

Dak
Behind LOS - 14.2% of total passes; 84.5% completion percentage
1-10 yards - 54.8% of total passes; 70.7% completion percentage
11-20 yards - 22.2% of total passes; 53.0% completion percentage
21-30 yards - 5.6% of total passes; 37.3% completion percentage
31-40 yards - 2.5% of total passes; 34.8% completion percentage
41+ yards - 0.8% of total passes; 28.6% completion percentage

Dak's numbers are not too far off from what Romo's were for his career. It's not like our offense has been a deep pass juggernaut that stopped when Dak became the QB.

How about you post the stats for rushing and rushing TD's for the two?

 

[Little Jr]

Its amazing that people can take a post and turn it into something that has nothing to do with the OP.

I see, who had a better running game, who had better WRs, who had better OL, who had a better team over all, even breaking down catchable passes and cb leverage which really doesnt have anything to do with the OP.

I think we can all agree Dak has been called a dink and dunk QB by many. I know we can agree, that at no time in Romos career, was he ever called a dink and dunk QB. The post is just showing that the false narrative that dak is a dink and dunk QB isnt true just like every other false narrative about dak isnt true more times than not. Unless of course, Romo was a dink and dunk QB and Im pretty sure no one will say that.

I will never understand why you have to bash one to compliment the other. Why you have to dislike one to like the other. Romo did great things for the Cowboys. He never got us to where we all want to be but thats not all on him. Dak did great his rookie year and came down to earth a little in his 2nd seaosn but that also wasnt all on him. I have no issues with critique of Daks play but to compare him to vets and expect the same thing from a 2nd year guy is a little silly. Does he need to improve things in his game? Sure, but who doesnt?

 

[AdamJT13]

Sure it explains it. The drops are dropped from the attempts total which inflates completion percentage and YPA. That is my central point that you don't once acknowledge.

"The drops are dropped from the attempts total" -- say what?

I never claimed that strawman you insist on but someone who is terribly inaccurate won't be close so he will not get the benefit from drops that Dak does.

Again -- what? Dak doesn't get any "benefit from drops" in any of the accuracy breakdowns. Whether the pass is caught or dropped doesn't affect whether it was judged to be accurate.

And the issue is not "aren't precisely perfect." I have been talking about leverage and leveraging throws and stating that Dak does not have good ball placement downfield. Try talking in those terms if you are trying to restate my argument. At the very least demonstrate how it is irrelevant.

None of the accuracy stats use the term "leveraging throws," so whatever you think that means to you, it has nothing to do with any of the stats. Try talking in terms used in the stats if you are trying to refute them.

 

[AdamJT13]

I wasn't looking at qb rating

So when you say "it isn't just about how often the QBs throw deep, but rather also how effective they are when they do it," by "how effective they are," you only mean completion percentage and NOT passer rating, right? Because that's the only measure of effectiveness that you used in your post. As if yards, touchdowns and interceptions are meaningless.

And all I did was give an entire breakdown

Yes, you gave an "entire breakdown" of seven passes by Romo and six passes by Dak on throws of 41 yards or more, mentioning only completion percentage. And an "entire breakdown" of 25 passes by Romo and 22 passes by Dak on throws of 21-30 yards, mentioning only completion percentage.

Oh, and you CONVENIENTLY skipped over the passes in between -- you know, those 18 passes by Romo that went 31-40 yards and those 10 passes by Dak that went 31-40 yards. Was it because Dak completed 40 percent and Romo completed 22 percent? Nah, that couldn't be it.

You want a larger sample size? How about Dak's ENTIRE CAREER on passes thrown 21 yards downfield or more? He has a passer rating of 112.0 -- is that effective enough for you?

We can take any sample size you want from Romo's career for comparison. Over his ENTIRE CAREER, he had a passer rating of 101.2 on passes 21 yards downfield or more. If we just look at his peak -- the four years from 2011 to 2014 -- he had a 104.3 passer rating on throws 21 yards downfield or more. If we cherry pick just his two best seasons, 2011 and 2014, his rating on passes 21 yards or more goes up to 110.9. That's tremendous, but it's STILL below Dak's 112.0 in the only two seasons of his career.

None of this means that Dak is somehow better than Romo or even that he is even in Romo's class yet. What it does mean is that anyone who thinks Dak hasn't been effective when he throws deep clearly has not been paying attention.