Darnold > Prescott

[thunderpimp91]

This is a great take and something to think about.

But is there a list or category/chart tracking whether holding calls were issued to quarterbacks? I ask because I haven't really heard of that as a quarterback stat most times but I also realize that can happen when holding on the ball to long.

With that said, that couldn't apply to quarterbacks on running plays when he hand the ball off to the backs and we get holding calls.

Here's another thing to think about as well.... when a quarterback holds on to the ball too long, is it due to the receivers inability to get open? We were playing against a number one 49ers defense.... could the linemen have committed holds due to an excellent pass rush?

Its a tough one, and unfortunately the penalty stat tracking is pretty limited. Even offensive holding calls are all lumped together where I wish they would split them up by run & pass plays. So its all subjective and its been so long since I've watched that game that I can't tell you whose fault what was. I just think its important to keep those things in mind because even though a penalty isnt directly labeled to a specific person doesnt mean that they are not part of the problem. Similar to Mahomes and Josh Allen. Both their teams are often towards the top of the league in holding calls and both are players known to extend plays with their feet. It doesnt make them bad players, but their style of play will sometimes cause additional penalties. I cant say for Dak in that playoff game if he was part of the issue or not, but he was 4th highest in the playoffs that year for time to throw per PFF. That doesnt mean much but does give us something to dive into if someone really has the time and wants to make a pro or con Dak argument with more substance.

 

[GINeric]

Never argued that. Dont twist things around to defend Dak.

Never argued Darnold was Josh Allen or Mahome or Stafford.

Just that he's better (now, this year ) than Dak is and ever was.

No, he wouldn't have led the Cowboys to the SB. But he DID lead the Seahawks to the SB. And what I'm arguing (not really arguing, just acknowledging reality), is that DAK wouldn't have done what Darnold did. He would not have led the Seahawks to the SB if he was their QB, and everything else was equal.

They never woulda had the #1 seed with Dak, with the exact same team. They never woulda outdueled the Rams and HOFer Stafford with Dak in the playoffs. He would choked in the playoffs . Like he always does. Like he's always done

And these are respectable takes, but to say Dak would have never done that with that Seattle team is debatable.

Dak has been a top 10 producing quarterback every season he has finished healthy, Darnold didn't do that. As great as Darnold has become, he was the 3rd overall player taken in draft, yet this is the first season he has been considered better than Dak.

Why wasn't he better than Dak since he entered the league? Darnold certainly elevated the Seahawks this year but.... why hasn't he elevated the Jets, Panthers, 49ers and Vikings the way he elevated the Seahawks?

This is not twisting things to defend Dak, this is just speaking facts. Again, Dak has been top 10 production wise his whole career, why hasn't Darnold until this season? Its no knock on Darnold because I respect the hell outta his game, but saying what Dak could or couldn't do with that same Seattle team, front office and coaching staff isn't concrete.

I can use your same logic and say Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson and Nick Foles would have won atleast two of the Bill's four Superbowls if they would have been the quarterback instead of Jim Kelly.

 

[GINeric]

Its a tough one, and unfortunately the penalty stat tracking is pretty limited. Even offensive holding calls are all lumped together where I wish they would split them up by run & pass plays. So its all subjective and its been so long since I've watched that game that I can't tell you whose fault what was. I just think its important to keep those things in mind because even though a penalty isnt directly labeled to a specific person doesnt mean that they are not part of the problem. Similar to Mahomes and Josh Allen. Both their teams are often towards the top of the league in holding calls and both are players known to extend plays with their feet. It doesnt make them bad players, but their style of play will sometimes cause additional penalties. I cant say for Dak in that playoff game if he was part of the issue or not, but he was 4th highest in the playoffs that year for time to throw per PFF. That doesnt mean much but does give us something to dive into if someone really has the time and wants to make a pro or con Dak argument with more substance.

I can tell you this.... no matter WHOSE at fault for the penalties, there's a reason that no coach, quarterback or complete team has ever won a playoff game vs a number one defense after committing 14 penalties.

It has never been done by any team in over 100 years of NFL football, thats why its hilarious that the Dallas Cowboys are blamed for failing to pull that off. It goes to show that people really lack the understanding of how professional football is played.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Dak's contract makes all those decisions HARDER. You admit he's not elite, but he DEMANDS elite pay. That means the FO has near zero margin for error when deciding in free agency or bubble players. So the answer to the question, "Why do you keep talking about Dak?" is that all roads lead back to the albatross of a contract.

there was a simple choice to make. Jerry could have said, no I walk away. but the moron GM cornered himself without having any other options. 3rd time he has done that....
I can ask for a billion, doesn't mean I should get it or deserve it. but once its handed out, it is what it is, you deal with it. philly does. detroit does. our GM is in elementary school of cap management.

so albatross...hmmm, how did we have 65M on the cap last year? and how did we hand out so many contracts. and how did we end up with 25M left on the cap.
the only year II remember the jethro and son actually manage the cap in some way, but ended up signing bunch of garbage FAs. garbage trades( except for QW and clark).

please don't get into things that are hard for you to understand just because you want to continue your crusade....if 5M more than the rest of the market handicap's the cowboys and its an albatross then you don't understand cap and jerry and stephen are morons.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Eagles and DET appear to be falling down after their spending sprees. What a spending spree does is open up a very small window for the super bowl. Some are saying the Lions missed theirs and it's over now. To be seen.

I thiink both of them felll becaue they lost key coaches, namely their OCs. Philly got rid of theirs and we see value of ben johnson having lifted chicago to win the division and #2 seed and saw Caleb williams come to his own a little. so its no necessarily losing anyone particular. they had all their players or key players from year before. we even experienced value of coaching when we had eberflus and we saw how that turned out.

 

[GINeric]

Dak's contract makes all those decisions HARDER. You admit he's not elite, but he DEMANDS elite pay. That means the FO has near zero margin for error when deciding in free agency or bubble players. So the answer to the question, "Why do you keep talking about Dak?" is that all roads lead back to the albatross of a contract.

Over half of the quarterbacks in the NFL probably have max contracts. Thats elite money. Other than Mahomes, what quarterback is earning their max dollar contracts?

Name them. I can only think of one max dollar contract quarterback who i can say truly earns his money and thats Mahomes. Other than that, I don't no about any other quarterback, do you?

 

[CowboysLakerBamaFan]

How is Darnold better this year?

was Seahawks defense a primary reason for seattle success? we simply won't know if Dak could have or not because he didn't benefit from Seattle defense. you are making assumptions. Darnold great benefited from a defense that gave up average of 17 points. they won 3 games this year scoring less than 20. when was the last time cowboys won a game like that?

I am not defending Dak, just because I am not incessantly dumping on him doesn't mean I am defending him, which is a mistake Hate Dak Cult members tend to make.

Gave up 28 to the Rams.

Dak doesn't overcome that.

 

[GINeric]

Gave up 28 to the Rams.

Dak doesn't overcome that.

Dak overcame being 21 points down to help lead us to a win over the defending Superbowl champion Eagles.... and that was despite having a bottom 3 defense.

That same Eagles team beat the Rams.

Not saying Dak would have won that game with Seattle, but im definitely not saying he wouldn't have.

 

[kskboys]

Eh it’s the same thing. The cowboys pretty regularly use the cap as an excuse not to spend money on the open market. The more they misuse cap space the more they can cry poor to the fan base.

Can't agree. Difference between being tight and lacking the brain power.

 

[thunderpimp91]

Can't agree. Difference between being tight and lacking the brain power.

I think they are more strategic with this than you think. The reason for not being more aggressive in FA last year? The parsons negotiations. The year prior? The lamb/Dak negotiations.

They weaponize the cap to cry poor to the fans.

Everything these guys do signifies cheap, including trading for guys like Kenneth Murray instead of just signing a backer in FA. When he can Jerry always sets his contracts up so he doesn’t dip into team funds and can use the revenue sharing checks when they start to hit team accounts.

 

[CowboysLakerBamaFan]

Dak overcame being 21 points down to help lead us to a win over the defending Superbowl champion Eagles.... and that was despite having a bottom 3 defense.

That same Eagles team beat the Rams.

Not saying Dak would have won that game with Seattle, but im definitely not saying he wouldn't have.

I missed the part where we did that in January in the playoffs.

Sorry...my bad.

 

[GINeric]

I missed the part where we did that in January in the playoffs.

Sorry...my bad.

Well you didn't say he never did it in January.... you said he never or would never come from behind being down. I gave just one of a few examples to show that he did.

Actually he didn't comeback vs the Eagles, the Dallas Cowboys came back vs the Eagles.

No quarterback has ever or will ever comeback vs another team. TEAMS comeback and win vs teams.

Sorry my bad....

 

[djejenkins]

If you ignore EVERY statistic, sure. Dumb thread

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Gave up 28 to the Rams.

Dak doesn't overcome that.

Dak and the cowboys. We have a tendency to pull defeat from jaws of victory.

 

[atlantacowboy]

Sam is a good QB and it's clear that he can be successful with a quality team around him.

That being said, he's not better than Dak.

Last time I saw them both on the same field , it was pretty obvious Darnold was better. Darnold has accomplished more than Dak. Getting his team to the Super Bowl certainly puts him over the top.

 

[CowboysFever1973]

Well you didn't say he never did it in January.... you said he never or would never come from behind being down. I gave just one of a few examples to show that he did.

Actually he didn't comeback vs the Eagles, the Dallas Cowboys came back vs the Eagles.

No quarterback has ever or will ever comeback vs another team. TEAMS comeback and win vs teams.

Sorry my bad....

Some players have that it factor. They will themselves and the team follows. Dak isn’t that guy. He can’t do it in January and he doesn’t even make it to January football all the time!

 

[GINeric]

Some players have that it factor. They will themselves and the team follows. Dak isn’t that guy. He can’t do it in January and he doesn’t even make it to January football all the time!

I agree with you about the it factor. But there are still more important factors involving a team opposed to one person.

Jim Kelly had 4 tries at a Superbowl victory and failed. Trent Dilfer, Nick Foles, Brad Johnson and Jim McMahon were all never considered to be elite quarterbacks, yet they got it done in the Superbowl.

Does that mean Jim Kelly isn't that guy but the others I've listed are?

Does that mean Dilfer, McMahon, Foles and Johnson have that "it factor"?

Yes Darnold played great this season, but where was his it factor with the Jets, Panthers, 49ers and Vikings? People said Darnold didn't have that it factor until this year.

From the year Dak was having, how do you know with a better defense he wouldn't have gotten over the hump this year in the playoffs? Darnold career was trash before the end of last season pouring into this season but he got over the hump.

Dak has had a better career up to this point than Darnold so if Darnold can get over the hump after years of trash play and COMPLIMENTED with a solid team AND coaching around him, how can you say Dak can't?

 

[kskboys]

I thiink both of them felll becaue they lost key coaches, namely their OCs. Philly got rid of theirs and we see value of ben johnson having lifted chicago to win the division and #2 seed and saw Caleb williams come to his own a little. so its no necessarily losing anyone particular. they had all their players or key players from year before. we even experienced value of coaching when we had eberflus and we saw how that turned out.

In Philly's case it is. They miss Milton Williams badly.

Of course, their running QB isn't running anymore. Turns out he's a poor passer. We could've told them that!!!!

 

[Vanilla2]

so what you’re saying is that he finally lived up to his draft status?

 

[Hadenough]

Dak scored TWELVE POINTS vs SF....TWELVE. So there's your answer to "less than 13 points".

The man is a choker. You keep dreaming up scenarios that are "Choke-proof": "Bub.b..b.b.ub...what if we gave Dak an all-time defense?" HE WOULD STILL CHOKE...you simply don't get that the man's nerves are SHOT.

Spot on! Reminds me of the last game of the season against the eagles where if Dallas wins they are in the playoffs. The defense held the Eagles to 13 points. Dak leads Dallas to 3 FGs.
Wentz was playing with WRs off the street and Dak couldn’t do jack. He choked big time.