Dean Blandino on Micah holds

[Proof]

MARCUSROCK on NFL OFFICIALS

the still shot is nearly a more accurate portrayal than the video if you get my drift ... lol

 

[MarcusRock]

"46 quarters OMG" is a valid reaction even without a deep dive. It's nearly impossible for a player of Micah's caliber to go that long, rush that frequently, and not force a penalty. Just through common sense and law of averages. That's before getting to the numerous times he's been blatantly held for all to see. I'll give you credit, you've been able to present logical arguments against some of them and present intricacies and wonky-isms of the rules, but there is still no way to hand wave away the fact he's gone so many games without a single hold called.

Also, haven't gone back to his previous seasons to compare, but against his contemporaries he's got the highest amount of pressures and pressure rates and the lowest penalties called for outside of khalil mack who has 2 holds against him and 20+ less pressures, and aaron donald who also has 2 holds and 20+ less pressures. They both also have a substantially lower pressure rate. There's just really no valid justification. And at this point since blandino is openly admitting even one instance is a hold, it completely invalidates any argument to the contrary, because that single hold > 0

I haven't hand waved it yet. I've seen him get blatantly held and have it not get called. But if it were "almost every play" like people say, there'd be tons more tape or at least game by game accounts. Refs are going to miss some. And yes, some are hard to explain how they were missed. But until someone can quantify "impossible" given Micah's "caliber" with actual numbers, especially when you speak of "averages" that imply numbers but don't give any, "46 Quarters" is just a number with zero context as to why that should be extraordinary because nothing establishing ordinary has even been half attempted until you speak of his contemporaries here. And even so, things aren't equal when it comes to how these guys rush and the competition they face. Off-hand, Micah tends to rush on a QB's blind side off the edge so he's seeing LTs a lot and those tend to be your best OLs, do they not? I mean Trent Williams handled Micah just fine. Maybe Micah's tendencies have been studied and people know how to block him effectively just long enough. QBs also know to speed up their clocks. Tons of variables.

I simply want more context than, "Oh, it has to be the case that he should draw more holding calls just because of who he is." Really? No one's even comes close to establishing that higher pressure rates equal more holding calls. Not even attempted. So watching a growing number is supposed to invoke outrage when you really don't know if you should actually be outraged because no one provides contextual numbers? This in a society where everyone now says you can't trust any data you're fed but this one is swallowed whole because it provides ammo against "the system." Unreal. Art does imitate life, lol.

 

[Proof]

I haven't hand waved it yet. I've seen him get blatantly held and have it not get called. But if it were "almost every play" like people say, there'd be tons more tape or at least game by game accounts. Refs are going to miss some. And yes, some are hard to explain how they were missed. But until someone can quantify "impossible" given Micah's "caliber" with actual numbers, especially when you speak of "averages" that imply numbers but don't give any, "46 Quarters" is just a number with zero context as to why that should be extraordinary because nothing establishing ordinary has even been half attempted until you speak of his contemporaries here. And even so, things aren't equal when it comes to how these guys rush and the competition they face. Off-hand, Micah tends to rush on a QB's blind side off the edge so he's seeing LTs a lot and those tend to be your best OLs, do they not? I mean Trent Williams handled Micah just fine. Maybe Micah's tendencies have been studied and people know how to block him effectively just long enough. QBs also know to speed up their clocks. Tons of variables.

I simply want more context than, "Oh, it has to be the case that he should draw more holding calls just because of who he is." Really? No one's even comes close to establishing that higher pressure rates equal more holding calls. Not even attempted. So watching a growing number is supposed to invoke outrage when you really don't know if you should actually be outraged because no one provides contextual numbers? This in a society where everyone now says you can't trust any data you're fed but this one is swallowed whole because it provides ammo against "the system." Unreal. Art does imitate life, lol.

bro… when you admit you’ve seen him blatantly held and it not get called it undercuts any other point you’re attempting to make. yes the “he’s being held every play” crowd is hyperbolic, but without any context, with out any numbers, without any deep dive the fact that we’ve seen him blatantly held without it being called is enough on its own to take umbrage with how long it’s been since he was awarded a call. i’ll readily admit that i can’t say definitively that more pressures equals more holds, but only because i don’t think it’s worth exploring because it’s an acceptably intuitive conclusion. sone things just don’t deserve the research unless trying to disprove (imo)

but to sum it up, we agree he’s been blatantly and obviously held and it not called and that it’s been a surprisingly long time since he’s had a call made, so i don’t see the point calling out anyone for being outraged over it even if they’re incorrectly outraged in other cases.

 

[MarcusRock]

bro… when you admit you’ve seen him blatantly held and it not get called it undercuts any other point you’re attempting to make. yes the “he’s being held every play” crowd is hyperbolic, but without any context, with out any numbers, without any deep dive the fact that we’ve seen him blatantly held without it being called is enough on its own to take umbrage with how long it’s been since he was awarded a call. i’ll readily admit that i can’t say definitively that more pressures equals more holds, but only because i don’t think it’s worth exploring because it’s an acceptably intuitive conclusion. sone things just don’t deserve the research unless trying to disprove (imo)

but to sum it up, we agree he’s been blatantly and obviously held and it not called and that it’s been a surprisingly long time since he’s had a call made, so i don’t see the point calling out anyone for being outraged over it even if they’re incorrectly outraged in other cases.

My point is we don't know if this is exactly as it's been all his previous years. So you say "surprisingly" but the surprisingly has never been quantified. So it's not surprising to me because I don't know what "usual" is. Neither do any of you. You were all told it's surprising and you go along. It's convenient to as a fan, I get it. I just want to look at actual data. Missed calls do happen. Would be nice to question refs on why they do or don't make calls but that's not possible. But if something's called odd, I like to make sure it's actually odd. Nothing more.

 

[BobSacamano]

I agree with Blandino to an extent. The more you fight through holds, the less officials will notice them. However, you can't just give up fighting so the holding call will be made because there's a good chance the officials still won't call it. It needs to just be continually harped on until the officials get it. Not by Micah but by the media, by the team, etc.

By now the refs should be scrutinizing how much he’s held as they do how much a star QB is ‘roughed up’.

It is not as if the league refs are being sequestered during the season like a jury is throughout a murder trial. I don’t see why they haven’t come round to it yet.

 

[Proof]

My point is we don't know if this is exactly as it's been all his previous years. So you say "surprisingly" but the surprisingly has never been quantified. So it's not surprising to me because I don't know what "usual" is. Neither do any of you. You were all told it's surprising and you go along. It's convenient to as a fan, I get it. I just want to look at actual data. Missed calls do happen. Would be nice to question refs on why they do or don't make calls but that's not possible. But if something's called odd, I like to make sure it's actually odd. Nothing more.

yeah and everyone else’s point is if it’s exactly as it has been previous years is irrelevant. if it is the same it’s an indictment overall, if it’s not the same it’s an indictment this year. you’re playing semantic word games with “surprising” replace it with disappointing or whatever adjective better scratches your itch. a defensive player that has historic and freakish pass rush abilities who we’ve seen get blatantly held not get any holding calls for an extended period of time is wild. if you need data and proof it’s wild that’s a you thing, and on brand.

but i’ll settle for both you and blandino acknowledging he’s been blatantly held and it not called and be comfortable with how that supports our grievances. all good

 

[MarcusRock]

yeah and everyone else’s point is if it’s exactly as it has been previous years is irrelevant. if it is the same it’s an indictment overall, if it’s not the same it’s an indictment this year. you’re playing semantic word games with “surprising” replace it with disappointing or whatever adjective better scratches your itch. a defensive player that has historic and freakish pass rush abilities who we’ve seen get blatantly held not get any holding calls for an extended period of time is wild. if you need data and proof it’s wild that’s a you thing, and on brand.

but i’ll settle for both you and blandino acknowledging he’s been blatantly held and it not called and be comfortable with how that supports our grievances. all good

Fine by me. The Quarters number just can't be called "surprising" or "odd" when a norm isn't known, only assumed but never researched.

By the way, wanna buy my house for $8M? It's a surprisingly low price for this part of the country and neighborhood. An odd bargain, really.

 

[gimmesix]

By now the refs should be scrutinizing how much he’s held as they do how much a star QB is ‘roughed up’.

It is not as if the league refs are being sequestered during the season like a jury is throughout a murder trial. I don’t see why they haven’t come round to it yet.

Well, I don't think there's as much urgency to get holding correct and slow down offenses as there is to protect QBs.

 

[Rayman70]

He can say what he wants, but after watching it all season its definitely intentional.

yup, its plausible deniability

 

[Proof]

Fine by me. The Quarters number just can't be called "surprising" or "odd" when a norm isn't known, only assumed but never researched.

By the way, wanna buy my house for $8M? It's a surprisingly low price for this part of the country and neighborhood. An odd bargain, really.

your analogies are absolutely horrible. there’s no context to your house as compared to one of the most dynamic pass rushers in HISTORY getting no calls.

the surprising nature of the conversation is the most impactful pass rusher in the league getting minimal to no calls. i already addressed your semantic aversion to “surprising” doubling down on it and with absolutely terrible analogies just further illustrates your lack of credibility.


“zack martin barely has sky holding penalties so why is it hard to believe no one’s held micah?” you’re talented at bootlicking the refs and deciphering the rule book, but zero critical thinking beyond that

 

[1942willys]

your analogies are absolutely horrible. there’s no context to your house as compared to one of the most dynamic pass rushers in HISTORY getting no calls.

the surprising nature of the conversation is the most impactful pass rusher in the league getting minimal to no calls. i already addressed your semantic aversion to “surprising” doubling down on it and with absolutely terrible analogies just further illustrates your lack of credibility.


“zack martin barely has sky holding penalties so why is it hard to believe no one’s held micah?” you’re talented at bootlicking the refs and deciphering the rule book, but zero critical thinking beyond that

Fine by me. The Quarters number just can't be called "surprising" or "odd" when a norm isn't known, only assumed but never researched.

By the way, wanna buy my house for $8M? It's a surprisingly low price for this part of the country and neighborhood. An odd bargain, really.

THIS IS NOT THE HOLDING YOU ARE LOOKING FOR

 

[CowboyStar88]

I saw this thread on the subject.

 

[MarcusRock]

your analogies are absolutely horrible. there’s no context to your house as compared to one of the most dynamic pass rushers in HISTORY getting no calls.

Neither is there context to getting no holding calls with no historical data on getting holding calls to call it out of the ordinary compared to calls refs miss anyway. As for my house, I'm telling you it's extraordinary and you can just see it with your own eyes as well as by report of others. It has a fantastic reputation. Just don't go researching similar property values for financial statistics to see if it's really $8M. The eye test speaks for itself. It's a steal. I've said before your screen name is ironic. Free country.

 

[CowboyStar88]

2.. That’s it.

 

[Doomsay]

This is why I constantly bring up the wording of the rule. "Material restriction" implies that some restriction is fine. So if you can effectively fight off what might have been a material restriction to a mere mortal, it only looks like acceptable restriction at those speeds. So it combines with the other wording about the defender's path to the ball and if it looks like his path is not being impacted then he doesn't look like one who's being held. But that will never fly when there are "46 Quarters, OMG!" headlines out there.

Fells like a Packer fan to me, anybody but the Cowboys.

 

[Doomsay]

2.. That’s it.

Anybody that doesn’t see a problem with this is a fraud.

 

[GMO415]

Perhaps the refs are saving it for the playoffs......NOT

 

[CWR]

I haven't hand waved it yet. I've seen him get blatantly held and have it not get called. But if it were "almost every play" like people say, there'd be tons more tape or at least game by game accounts. Refs are going to miss some. And yes, some are hard to explain how they were missed. But until someone can quantify "impossible" given Micah's "caliber" with actual numbers, especially when you speak of "averages" that imply numbers but don't give any, "46 Quarters" is just a number with zero context as to why that should be extraordinary because nothing establishing ordinary has even been half attempted until you speak of his contemporaries here. And even so, things aren't equal when it comes to how these guys rush and the competition they face. Off-hand, Micah tends to rush on a QB's blind side off the edge so he's seeing LTs a lot and those tend to be your best OLs, do they not? I mean Trent Williams handled Micah just fine. Maybe Micah's tendencies have been studied and people know how to block him effectively just long enough. QBs also know to speed up their clocks. Tons of variables.

I simply want more context than, "Oh, it has to be the case that he should draw more holding calls just because of who he is." Really? No one's even comes close to establishing that higher pressure rates equal more holding calls. Not even attempted. So watching a growing number is supposed to invoke outrage when you really don't know if you should actually be outraged because no one provides contextual numbers? This in a society where everyone now says you can't trust any data you're fed but this one is swallowed whole because it provides ammo against "the system." Unreal. Art does imitate life, lol.

Higher pressure rates mean you're beating the oline. When you beat your man or men, they are more prone to compensate and hold. They aren't holding guys they have well blocked.

Surely we can agree holding is merely a last effort to block?

There's no need to commission a study for common sense, in that guys with higher rates would be held more often.

While I think there's merrit in comparing Parsons to other pass rushers, he has acknowledged the top guys don't get the calls they earn either. So I'm not sure a study would establish anything unless you adjusted it per players pressure rate. No one is going to do that though. The league is not looking to find fault or take points off the scoreboard. Neither of those help with ratings. Maybe PPF or some other advanced metrics player would take up the cause.

To be completely transparent I don't have a clue how many times he's held a game. I do know he's generated a ton of pressure and not having drawn a flag in "46 quarters" is unbelievable.

Of course we disagree that he should be focused on more than his team mates for the simple fact he wins so often. Still even watching the entire line it seems far fetched he'd go this long.

 

[big dog cowboy]

His excuse that it isn't intentional doesn't pass the logic test. Mere incompetence WOULD even out over the long haul. Incompetence would also mean that Parsons would get a favorable holding call once in a while even when the blockers don't hold him.

Nothing Blandino says passes the logic text. He is the village idiot personified.

 

[MarcusRock]

Higher pressure rates mean you're beating the oline. When you beat your man or men, they are more prone to compensate and hold. They aren't holding guys they have well blocked.

Surely we can agree holding is merely a last effort to block?

There's no need to commission a study for common sense, in that guys with higher rates would be held more often.

Agree with you but there doesn't need to be a big study. Look at the pass rush win rate champs and look at the holds they drew the past few seasons to see what that looked like. No one here even knows how many holds Parsons drew last season or the one before. I'm just marveling at someone throwing up a tally for folks to get outraged about and folks are like, "Okay, sold!" because it's convenient to believe. Same as the "8 games without an opposing OL being called for holding .... on passing plays only" tweet that sent people into a tizzy when no one asked exactly how rare that was that they should be outraged about it. When I actually looked, Detroit had a 7 game stretch the very same season. I believe that was pre-Parsons. Who was tearing it up for us then that that should be "unbelievable?" I ask these questions and expect the human nature responses. I'll still ask them though.