Defense Defense Defense

[CCBoy]

Any metric. 3/4 starting safeties are journeymen.

Panthers:

Roman Harper
Kurt Coleman

They're both the epitome of journeyman.

Broncos:

TJ Ward
Darian Stewart

Ward is a good safety, but I wouldn't call him great. Darian Stewart is a journeyman.

Cherry picking again, are we? Answer what was presented. How good as compared to what, Pro Bowl balloting or how their respective secondaries integrate to a total defense?

 

[CCBoy]

He has done some good things but they do not necessarily equate to success on the football field. This is his make-or-break year.

NO ONE HAS ARGUED THAT POINT FROM THE START!!

 

[CyberB0b]

Cherry picking again, are we? Answer what was presented. How good as compared to what, Pro Bowl balloting or how their respective secondaries integrate to a total defense?

I'm not cherry picking. I said any metric you wish. That is the opposite of cherry picking. Those 4 safeties aren't elite.

 

[Zimmy Lives]

NO ONE HAS ARGUED THAT POINT FROM THE START!!

WELL OKAY, THEN!!!

 

[mattjames2010]

I like the fact most of the examples you give for the defense being elite are losses (San Diego, Green Bay, Denver, Giants(twice) and Vikings) and beating a 4-12 team (Skins) by one point (at home no less).

An elite defense would have had a couple of pick sixes and helped win a couple of those games or at least given the offense a short field to work with (11 interceptions total).

That's what elite defenses do.

The 2009 defense played well enough to get us beat for the most part.

The main reason we did as well as we did was Romo and if he didn't play well then guess what?

We lost!

Your argument is finished. It has been.

I've given you statistics of that year that lines them up with being an elite defense of 2009. Either provide something that counters it or it's time throw up the white flag.

 

[DandyDon52]

Right! Texans were just a perfect example of great D who got after people and just a pedestrian O that won't help you in playoffs

obrien played the wrong qb ! he should have played the weed !!

 

[DandyDon52]

No it didn't.

NE carved up SEA's vaunted Defense all game.

And If SEA pulled it out with a last minute drive it was Russell Wilson and Marshawn Lynch that would get the credit.

Neither Defense played well.

last play was a great defensive int, that won the game.
neither of those teams had a great offense or great defense, which is why that was a golden chance for dallas to win a SB.
Carolina has both denver just has a great defense, so Carolina should win.......unless denver defense can hold carolina
to like 16 or less.

 

[CCBoy]

I'm not cherry picking. I said any metric you wish. That is the opposite of cherry picking. Those 4 safeties aren't elite.

Then that is being biased again, a metric was given...how the defense does as a whole...the point from the start.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Then if discussion is not your attempt...simple, stay out of them and don't claim knowledge about when all you really do is doubt...you can't even explain what is vainly presented as a counter.

Good night...sleep well.

When the Packers, Giants, or Ravens all were on top...they simply had very strong defenses and an offense that could at least stay competitive with scores in a game.

Loss of strong defenses usually come around multiple injuries and cap demand that kills the cap numbers of a team. Most teams, who were good, hit those periods...most.

Its not that I don't want a discussion but instead of engaging in one you're telling me to go and watch what happened on Sunday. It changes year to year. Not too long ago everyone thought the league was changing to where you would need a mobile quarterback in order to win. A few years later Peyton Manning, the most immobile quarterback in the league is in the Super Bowl......


The Giants were the 25th ranked defense the year they won the Super Bowl in 2011 and in 2007 they were the 17th ranked defense. So what are you chasing year to year? What are you trying to emulate. Always trying to emulate the last winners and then the next year a new team wins and a different way then the previous team won. I just don't understand it. The Cowboys should try it. Just go in build your team THE RIGHT WAY which is on the line of both sides of hte football. They have one side set. They need to get to the other sides line. Start from the line out. Then worry about fixing wide receiver which needs improvement but doesn't really need fixing.

 

[CCBoy]

Its not that I don't want a discussion but instead of engaging in one you're telling me to go and watch what happened on Sunday. It changes year to year. Not too long ago everyone thought the league was changing to where you would need a mobile quarterback in order to win. A few years later Peyton Manning, the most immobile quarterback in the league is in the Super Bowl......


The Giants were the 25th ranked defense the year they won the Super Bowl in 2011 and in 2007 they were the 17th ranked defense. So what are you chasing year to year? What are you trying to emulate. Always trying to emulate the last winners and then the next year a new team wins and a different way then the previous team won. I just don't understand it. The Cowboys should try it. Just go in build your team THE RIGHT WAY which is on the line of both sides of hte football. They have one side set. They need to get to the other sides line. Start from the line out. Then worry about fixing wide receiver which needs improvement but doesn't really need fixing.

Fix the defensive line...try Gregory, Lawrence, Crawford, and Hardy. On the offensive side, the acquiring of Smith, Frederick, Martin, and Collins a pretty determined shot at both front lines.

As to a rewrite of history, the Giants were definitely known for their defense, as were the Ravens and even Green Bay when they were competitive.

Go back and look at the dominant years of Cowboy history, and they demonstrate a very tough and competitive defense.

As to successful top shelf Cowboy teams, look again, they had two top shelf players and the asking prices for them were in the first rounds for both receivers...go back and look. Start with Irvin and Harper.

As to the 'magic show' you imply, when defenses that reach the final match aren't top notched, the determining factors then shift to mistakes and top producing offenses. But that is when a defense by either team, isn't really top notched. But the rule of thumb is, in the playoffs, defense carries a team through.

Mobile quarterbacks have never been in disfavor, but when the rest of the team wasn't strong enough, the quarterback running around just lasts so long. What does change games, is a vertical and effective passing offense and a strong/pounding running game gains advantages.

One doesn't merely find a workable category and go with it...and expect to win. Ask Philadelphia about that. Or the Giants when their defense falls beyond acceptible levels.

 

[Nightman]

last play was a great defensive int, that won the game.
neither of those teams had a great offense or great defense, which is why that was a golden chance for dallas to win a SB.
Carolina has both denver just has a great defense, so Carolina should win.......unless denver defense can hold carolina
to like 16 or less.

You are just as bad as the other guy.

NE won and was in the Super Bowl because of their offense.

Just because the final play was a good one by the defense it doesn't change anything,

Was it great defense by NE that allowed SEA to go 80yards in under a minute to end both halves. No.
Was it great defense that led NE to 2 long scoring drives in the 4th quarter, no it was Tom Brady.

 

[KingintheNorth]

I've heard the argument here many times that you can't have All-Pro's at every position and my response has always been 'How about some?'... but I get the argument.

The Panthers have a good game plan on defense.

They have the edge rushers... Johnson, Allen, and Ealy..and beef in the middle... Lotuleilei, Short, and Edwards...forming a nice 6-man rotation.

They have 3 talented linebackers, playing sideline-to-sideline, flying to the ball in Kuechly, Davis, and Thompson

and they have a lockdown cb who quarterbacks and game plan avoid like the plague in Norman.

They hide two step-slow safeties and a marginal CB in Harper, Coleman, and McClain. Since everyone else does their job, those 3 just have to not suck and that defense is going to create turnovers.

Throw in a power running game and a dangerous QB, and you have the formula for success.

I think we have the making of a talented young d-line, as well as Sean Lee and Byron Jones. Scandrick is valuable as well. We just have too many other weak spots to try and hide.

Here's hoping Jerry does his annual switch of which team he wants to resemble and picks that defense.

 

[CCBoy]

I've heard the argument here many times that you can't have All-Pro's at every position and my response has always been 'How about some?'... but I get the argument.

The Panthers have a good game plan on defense.

They have the edge rushers... Johnson, Allen, and Ealy..and beef in the middle... Lotuleilei, Short, and Edwards...forming a nice 6-man rotation.

They have 3 talented linebackers, playing sideline-to-sideline, flying to the ball in Kuechly, Davis, and Thompson

and they have a lockdown cb who quarterbacks and game plan avoid like the plague in Norman.

They hide two step-slow safeties and a marginal CB in Harper, Coleman, and McClain. Since everyone else does their job, those 3 just have to not suck and that defense is going to create turnovers.

Throw in a power running game and a dangerous QB, and you have the formula for success.

I think we have the making of a talented young d-line, as well as Sean Lee and Byron Jones. Scandrick is valuable as well. We just have too many other weak spots to try and hide.

Here's hoping Jerry does his annual switch of which team he wants to resemble and picks that defense.

I'll listen to a reasonable discussion, any time...

 

[IrishAnto]

Your argument is finished. It has been.

I've given you statistics of that year that lines them up with being an elite defense of 2009. Either provide something that counters it or it's time throw up the white flag.

Ah! the old I'm right and your wrong reply.

A person who solely relies on statistics has already lost the argument.

You know where you can stick your white flag.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

All right gentlemen, Let's stop the sniping at each other.

 

[CCBoy]

• 

Not a political posting...

 

[CCBoy]

• 

 

[Craig]

All right gentlemen, Let's stop the sniping at each other.

Youre basically saying to stop communicating if youre saying that to someone on them internets.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Youre basically saying to stop communicating if youre saying that to someone on them internets.

But I am sexy so I can say it and get away with it.

 

[CCBoy]

But I am sexy so I can say it and get away with it.