Defense Defense Defense

[mattjames2010]

Then your definition of "elite" is different to mine.

An elite defense is excellent week in, week out. It will be in the top percentile right across the board (rushing/passing defense, turnovers, scoring etc.).

It will stand up then the offense isn't playing well.

Two back to back shutouts aren't evidence of the above especially as the first shutout was against the 4-12 Skins.

And again we have the performance against the Vikings.

Yes, it's very different than yours. In a football context, "elite" fits the 2009 Cowboys defense.

Only 4 games that season did our defense give up more than 20 points in a game, two of those games were points given up in garbage time. The only teams that scored over 21 were the Giants and Vikings. No other team scored more than 20 points, both our divisional matchups against the Commanders and they didn't score a single TD in either of those game. We held three high powered offenses to 17 points, San Diego, Green Bay Packers, and New Orleans Saints. 9th against the pass, 4th against the run. In the context of football, again, the label is apt.

And stand up when the offense isn't playing well? Dude, it held the Commanders to 6 points in a game we won by scoring ONE TD. 7-6. It held Packers to 0 points for most of the game when our offense couldn't score a single TD until late in the 4th quarter. Hell, our defense is what kept us in the first Eagles game when we were trailing until the pass to Austin sealed the game, held Denver down when our offense couldn't score more than 10 points.

 

[utrunner07]

I doubt we'll ever have an elite defense under Marinelli.

funny how people said the same about wade when he was here and now he has the top defense in the league (and btw its not just wade that this has been the case with). now its marinelli and garrett taking the falls, wonder how long it will take some of you to realize what the real problems are in dallas.

 

[Galian Beast]

I would really like this entire draft to be dedicated to the defense.

I think we can fix all of our offensive issues in free agency this year (WR/RB/QB).

 

[tyke1doe]

2009 - top 10 against the pass, top 5 against the run, gave up 7 total points in a three week span.

I'm gonna go ahead and say we had a heck of an elite defense in 09.

So much for the "Romo has never played with an elite defense" narrative.

 

[tyke1doe]

Then your definition of "elite" is different to mine.

An elite defense is excellent week in, week out. It will be in the top percentile right across the board (rushing/passing defense, turnovers, scoring etc.).

It will stand up then the offense isn't playing well.

Two back to back shutouts aren't evidence of the above especially as the first shutout was against the 4-12 Skins.

And again we have the performance against the Vikings.

So if an elite defense drops the ball once and has a bad game once, it no longer qualifies to be elite?

 

[Galian Beast]

So much for the "Romo has never played with an elite defense" narrative.

2009 was a good year for the Cowboys. They went to the second round in the playoffs, and got destroyed when their offensive line got exposed by the vikings.

 

[IrishAnto]

Yes, it's very different than yours. In a football context, "elite" fits the 2009 Cowboys defense.

Only 4 games that season did our defense give up more than 20 points in a game, two of those games were points given up in garbage time. The only teams that scored over 21 were the Giants and Vikings. No other team scored more than 20 points, both our divisional matchups against the Commanders and they didn't score a single TD in either of those game. We held three high powered offenses to 17 points, San Diego, Green Bay Packers, and New Orleans Saints. 9th against the pass, 4th against the run. In the context of football, again, the label is apt.

And stand up when the offense isn't playing well? Dude, it held the Commanders to 6 points in a game we won by scoring ONE TD. 7-6. It held Packers to 0 points for most of the game when our offense couldn't score a single TD until late in the 4th quarter. Hell, our defense is what kept us in the first Eagles game when we were trailing until the pass to Austin sealed the game, held Denver down when our offense couldn't score more than 10 points.

I like the fact most of the examples you give for the defense being elite are losses (San Diego, Green Bay, Denver, Giants(twice) and Vikings) and beating a 4-12 team (Skins) by one point (at home no less).

An elite defense would have had a couple of pick sixes and helped win a couple of those games or at least given the offense a short field to work with (11 interceptions total).

That's what elite defenses do.

The 2009 defense played well enough to get us beat for the most part.

The main reason we did as well as we did was Romo and if he didn't play well then guess what?

We lost!

 

[IrishAnto]

2009 was a good year for the Cowboys. They went to the second round in the playoffs, and got destroyed when their offensive line got exposed by the vikings.

It's a sad day when you get your *** spanked in the final game of the season and that's considered a good year.

Last year was a good year as we went down fighting.

 

[tyke1doe]

2009 was a good year for the Cowboys. They went to the second round in the playoffs, and got destroyed when their offensive line got exposed by the vikings.

Sometimes, it just happens. You can have a great team and still not get to the Super Bowl. Shrug.

 

[IrishAnto]

So if an elite defense drops the ball once and has a bad game once, it no longer qualifies to be elite?

You saying the 2009 defense only had one bad game?

They gave 33 & 31 points to an 8-8 Giants team and 34 to the Vikings where they were of little help to a struggling offense.

They did what the Cowboys defense usually does, play well (for the most part) for 55-56 min and then let the opposition score the points needed to win or tie the game.

That's not an elite defense (especially one with 8 former no 1 draft picks on it).

And that's the way it's been (for the large part) whether Zimmer, Phillips, Ryan or Marinelli have been in charge which was the point of my original post on this thread.

 

[Galian Beast]

It's a sad day when you get your *** spanked in the final game of the season and that's considered a good year.

Last year was a good year as we went down fighting.

Sometimes, it just happens. You can have a great team and still not get to the Super Bowl. Shrug.

When I say it was a good year, I mean that the team had an legitimate shot at winning the super bowl. Unfortunately the weaknesses got exposed. Both in 2007 and 2009 we beat the teams that ended up winning the Super Bowl. We beat the Giants 2/3 times in 2007 and we beat the Saints in 2009. The Vikings were just a bad match up for us.

Both those teams could have won a super bowl. I think they were actually better placed to do so than our team last year, that had a particularly weak defense.

 

[IrishAnto]

When I say it was a good year, I mean that the team had an legitimate shot at winning the super bowl. Unfortunately the weaknesses got exposed. Both in 2007 and 2009 we beat the teams that ended up winning the Super Bowl. We beat the Giants 2/3 times in 2007 and we beat the Saints in 2009. The Vikings were just a bad match up for us.

Both those teams could have won a super bowl. I think they were actually better placed to do so than our team last year, that had a particularly weak defense.

For the last 20 seasons "coulda been a contender" would be an apt motto for the Cowboys.

At some point you have to admit that in that time span we're just not a well run team.

 

[StarBoyz83]

There's for sure room for a ton upgrades on the defense.

Oscan and lee are solid. And crawford will start since he was just signed. Other than that meh. Church is decent but had a bad year.

 

[CCBoy]

I don't care what these teams did. Everyone wants to copy what he other winners do.......what did the Packers do? What did he Giants have? The Ravens? Things change from year to year.

Then if discussion is not your attempt...simple, stay out of them and don't claim knowledge about when all you really do is doubt...you can't even explain what is vainly presented as a counter.

Good night...sleep well.

When the Packers, Giants, or Ravens all were on top...they simply had very strong defenses and an offense that could at least stay competitive with scores in a game.

Loss of strong defenses usually come around multiple injuries and cap demand that kills the cap numbers of a team. Most teams, who were good, hit those periods...most.

 

[CCBoy]

For the last 20 seasons "coulda been a contender" would be an apt motto for the Cowboys.

At some point you have to admit that in that time span we're just not a well run team.

Not exactly...as during that same run, were playoff teams by Bill Parcells, Wade Phillips, and Jason Garrett. And they had the ability to advance while there as well.

Your look might be just as successful by claiming race and gene failures...

 

[IrishAnto]

Not exactly...as during that same run, were playoff teams by Bill Parcells, Wade Phillips, and Jason Garrett. And they had the ability to advance while there as well.

Your look might be just as successful by claiming race and gene failures...

I have no idea what your saying here.

Are you suggesting the last 20 years were just bad luck?

 

[CCBoy]

I have no idea what your saying here.

Are you suggesting the last 20 years were just bad luck?

Never mind, you chose not to show understanding...the reason was plainly given. You want a thesis given back, that you can just issue a disclaimer to...

 

[IrishAnto]

Never mind, you chose not to show understanding...the reason was plainly given. You want a thesis given back, that you can just issue a disclaimer to...

Whatever...

 

[Galian Beast]

For the last 20 seasons "coulda been a contender" would be an apt motto for the Cowboys.

At some point you have to admit that in that time span we're just not a well run team.

At some point? I don't think the team is well run. I think we have a pretty poor head coach who has no business being head coach of an NFL team. He should have been a QBs coach for a decade before becoming an offensive coordinator, and an offensive coordinator for another ten years before becoming a head coach. Garrett has been fast tracked and for no reason whatsoever.

He played way too late into his career as a backup. Most coaches would retire much earlier and then go immediately into position coaching for a while. This guy was literally a QBs coach for two years and then was hired as an offensive coordinator... that's insane. It's not even like he developed someone in Miami either. He was an offensive coordinator for 3 and a half years before being made a head coach.

He has to be one of the least experienced head coach in nfl history.

 

[CCBoy]

At some point? I don't think the team is well run. I think we have a pretty poor head coach who has no business being head coach of an NFL team. He should have been a QBs coach for a decade before becoming an offensive coordinator, and an offensive coordinator for another ten years before becoming a head coach. Garrett has been fast tracked and for no reason whatsoever.

He played way too late into his career as a backup. Most coaches would retire much earlier and then go immediately into position coaching for a while. This guy was literally a QBs coach for two years and then was hired as an offensive coordinator... that's insane. It's not even like he developed someone in Miami either. He was an offensive coordinator for 3 and a half years before being made a head coach.

He has to be one of the least experienced head coach in nfl history.

As a player, his knowledge of the game was tested extensively by the Cowboys as part of his role as backup. This wasn't a blank slate as suggested. He gained diversity through changes of coahces as well as team. Once a coach, one can't say that he was limited by a positional job, as most coaches develop up through that very start on a staff in the NFL.

That or a path through the collegiate ranks in a similar manner. True, he wasn't yet a head coach...but who would have been that foolish to start a short coaching career at that level? No one, of course...but Jason was interviewed on the same level as all other candidates at that time.