Defense

[Zimmy Lives]

this is like one of those far too clever for their own good meme's where you say something snarky and clever and think the world will suddenly go HOLY **** I'VE BEEN WRONG ALL THESE YEARS.

yea, when was the last time a meme did that to you?

in any event, let's just also put away all manning has done for the broncos to get THE TEAM in a position to be there.

This.

Manning did his job in the Denver offensive scheme. It was pretty obvious, though, that Denver was going to rely on their defense to win games in the playoffs and SB.

If you think about it, Dallas had the same game plan most of the season. They tried to keep it close on offense (with a backup QB) and hoped to rely on their defense to make a key stop or big play. Only problem is, Dallas did not have the Denver playmakers on defense.

 

[Alexander]

If you think about it, Dallas had the same game plan most of the season. They tried to keep it close on offense (with a backup QB) and hoped to rely on their defense to make a key stop or big play. Only problem is, Dallas did not have the Denver playmakers on defense.

Phillips' defense is also far more aggressive than most defenses, especially now where he felt that after a year out of football, he had something to prove. And he had the freedom to focus solely on the gameplan each week.

Most coaches, even good defensive ones, do not go for the throat in tight situations. Even their players noted that tendency from Phillips when comparing him to Jack Del Rio. He simply would be more aggressive and let the defenders pin their ears back.

Marinelli's schemes are nothing of the kind. They are conservative by nature constantly and require that "key stop" or "big play" by a player stepping up, with the system constraints to make that play, i.e. perfect execution, just the way it was drawn up on the white board. The concepts of pressure in the two schemes are radically different.

 

[Zimmy Lives]

Phillips' defense is also far more aggressive than most defenses, especially now where he felt that after a year out of football, he had something to prove. And he had the freedom to focus solely on the gameplan each week.

Most coaches, even good defensive ones, do not go for the throat in tight situations. Even their players noted that tendency from Phillips when comparing him to Jack Del Rio. He simply would be more aggressive and let the defenders pin their ears back.

Marinelli's schemes are nothing of the kind. They are conservative by nature constantly and require that "key stop" or "big play" by a player stepping up, with the system constraints to make that play, i.e. perfect execution, just the way it was drawn up on the white board. The concepts of pressure in the two schemes are radically different.

I agree. This is why Dallas needed better QB play. This defense lacks the playmakers necessary to win a SB but better QB play would have placed them in better opportunities to win games going into the 4th quarter with a lead.

 

[gimmesix]

Watching these past few superbowls and still nobody sees that you win championships with an elite defense.

I'm all in on getting this defense corrected and a top 5 elite unit.

A 39 year old QB had 140 yards 0 TDs and an interception and won because of that defense he has.


Let's reach for a rookie QB though

I'm with you. I think Jerry's goal before Romo and Witten are gone needs to be to make this defense as strong as it possibly can be and give them a chance to get what Ware has. Watching Denver's defense last night made me feel bad for Tony.

Draft Jack and a top DT with those first two picks, add a few defensive players through FA, and bring in the top backup you can find for Romo. Draft a mid-round QB to see if you can develop one. If not, there will be other opportunities to find Romo's successor.

It's sad that we've wasted such a good quarterback by rarely putting a top-notch defense around him. Now, there are a few things we need to do on offense, but they pale in comparison to what we need to do to make this defense top five.

 

[Alexander]

I agree. This is why Dallas needed better QB play. This defense lacks the playmakers necessary to win a SB but better QB play would have placed them in better opportunities to win games going into the 4th quarter with a lead.

A defense that can win consistently without scoring is going to eventually cave unless everything breaks right. Even with a dominant defense it is hard to ask for a win when you don't even have the benefit of an offensive TD until late in the game. Denver got away with that on more than a few occasions throughout the year. Part of that is the playmaking, the other part is the pressure of the scheme and the stress it puts on the opposing offense to get back in it. Carolina still had a chance to get back in it several times. I saw a defense that stressed a very strong offense into forcing plays, especially when the run was completely negated and Newton had to throw. They simply were not used to playing an aggressive defense in a tight football game.

 

[Stash]

Phillips' defense is also far more aggressive than most defenses, especially now where he felt that after a year out of football, he had something to prove. And he had the freedom to focus solely on the gameplan each week.

Denver hired him for the job he does best and is best suited for - defensive coordinator. And, accordingly, got the best results.

Most coaches, even good defensive ones, do not go for the throat in tight situations. Even their players noted that tendency from Phillips when comparing him to Jack Del Rio. He simply would be more aggressive and let the defenders pin their ears back.

Marinelli's schemes are nothing of the kind. They are conservative by nature constantly and require that "key stop" or "big play" by a player stepping up, with the system constraints to make that play, i.e. perfect execution, just the way it was drawn up on the white board. The concepts of pressure in the two schemes are radically different.

I remember some heated debates a few years ago when it was revealed that we were transitioning back to the 4-3 defense under Garrett. Many of us were worried about going back to the days of struggling to find a pass rush.

 

[conner01]

They weren't better than Denver's defense today...

The panthers defense played very well
To me it wasn't as much about which defense was better as it was which QB handled the adversity the best

 

[Alexander]

I remember some heated debates a few years ago when it was revealed that we were transitioning back to the 4-3 defense under Garrett. Many of us were worried about going back to the days of struggling to find a pass rush.

The pass rush is easier to predict in a 4-3 versus a 3-4. Anyone who tells you that the concepts of changing up which 4 rusher does not have an effect is simply uninformed.

That said, you can have a 4-3 and run some 3-4 concepts, as quite a few teams do.

But if you are running a very plain scheme like the Tampa 2 you had better have two incredible edge rushers, not a pretty good one and an okay one. And your DTs better be dynamic as well or the stunts and twists from the four rushers are going to be ineffective more often than not. Dallas' issue is they have not had the DL to make it work. A lot of that has to do with some very stubborn personnel decisions and more than a little wishful thinking with certain players.

 

[jterrell]

Watching these past few superbowls and still nobody sees that you win championships with an elite defense.

I'm all in on getting this defense corrected and a top 5 elite unit.

A 39 year old QB had 140 yards 0 TDs and an interception and won because of that defense he has.


Let's reach for a rookie QB though

Amazingly, both sides had a great defense.
As bad as Manning was he played better football and his team won.
The Panthers will spend all off-season trying to UPGRADE THEIR OFFENSE.

good talk.

 

[jterrell]

The pass rush is easier to predict in a 4-3 versus a 3-4. Anyone who tells you that the concepts of changing up which 4 rusher does not have an effect is simply uninformed.

That said, you can have a 4-3 and run some 3-4 concepts, as quite a few teams do.

But if you are running a very plain scheme like the Tampa 2 you had better have two incredible edge rushers, not a pretty good one and an okay one. And your DTs better be dynamic as well or the stunts and twists from the four rushers are going to be ineffective more often than not. Dallas' issue is they have not had the DL to make it work. A lot of that has to do with some very stubborn personnel decisions and more than a little wishful thinking with certain players.

The Panthers WRs were just not good enough to beat Denver CBs in 1 on 1s. Denver had enough guys to constantly send 5 plus cover everyone and spy Newton.
Game over.

 

[Alexander]

The Panthers WRs were just not good enough to beat Denver CBs in 1 on 1s. Denver had enough guys to constantly send 5 plus cover everyone and spy Newton.
Game over.

They were in position several times to make the catches but didn't. Brown and especially Ginn let them down.

Will have to wait to see what the numbers were, but I don't think they were sending five at Newton. They sent four most of the time, it is how it seemed to me. That was different from what Phillips did to Brady which was send only three quite a bit.

 

[Stash]

The pass rush is easier to predict in a 4-3 versus a 3-4. Anyone who tells you that the concepts of changing up which 4 rusher does not have an effect is simply uninformed.

Or willfully blinding themselves to the truth. I find the 3-4 defense to be fundamentally superior in terms of innovation, flexibility, versatility, and creativity.

That said, you can have a 4-3 and run some 3-4 concepts, as quite a few teams do.

Yeah, the Broncos did that very thing last year, which wa smart considering they already had what are essentially how 3-4 rushers in Miller and Ware. That made the full-time transition under Wade that much smoother.

But if you are running a very plain scheme like the Tampa 2 you had better have two incredible edge rushers, not a pretty good one and an okay one.

To me, it looks only a bit less outdated than what Father Time Monte Kiffin was running. Vanilla and uninspired, risk averse and lacking in creativity. The one time he looked to have shaken things up a bit (the first Washington game) looked to me like the best performance all year.

And your DTs better be dynamic as well or the stunts and twists from the four rushers are going to be ineffective more often than not. Dallas' issue is they have not had the DL to make it work. A lot of that has to do with some very stubborn personnel decisions and more than a little wishful thinking with certain players.

At the very least, you need. DT that can command a double team on some level of a regular basis. Teams have little reason to do that with Crawford, and absolutely no reason to worry about Hayden. Marinelli's vanity project has cost this defense for far too long and it's time to show some respect for the 1-technique / nose tackle position already.

 

[Stash]

The Panthers WRs were just not good enough to beat Denver CBs in 1 on 1s. Denver had enough guys to constantly send 5 plus cover everyone and spy Newton.
Game over.

I can't think of a team that compares to Denver's cornerbacks. They've simply been amazing in stocking their team through any and all avenues.

Talib, a free agent signing who may be an idiot but is one of the best in the league.

Chris Harris, one of the best undrafted free agent cornerback finds ever.

And Roby, a first round draft pick.

 

[Seven]

Doesn't matter what you think about Cam but they went 17-2 and went to a superbowl and lost to number 1 defense

So. Dallas went 12-4 and lost too.

It's not what I think, it's what we know.

Newton proved as such with his childish behavior after the game.

I should've called him a brat and a hack.

He's got a lot of growing up to do...............

 

[Nexx]

Phillips' defense is also far more aggressive than most defenses, especially now where he felt that after a year out of football, he had something to prove. And he had the freedom to focus solely on the gameplan each week.

Most coaches, even good defensive ones, do not go for the throat in tight situations. Even their players noted that tendency from Phillips when comparing him to Jack Del Rio. He simply would be more aggressive and let the defenders pin their ears back.

Marinelli's schemes are nothing of the kind. They are conservative by nature constantly and require that "key stop" or "big play" by a player stepping up, with the system constraints to make that play, i.e. perfect execution, just the way it was drawn up on the white board. The concepts of pressure in the two schemes are radically different.

Very similar in nature to our offensive philosophy

 

[Alexander]

Very similar in nature to our offensive philosophy

Both are old and antiquated systems led by stubborn coaches who are not exactly open to change and are not known for their ability to adapt.

 

[Seven]

Both are old and antiquated systems led by stubborn coaches who are not exactly open to change and are not known for their ability to adapt.

Amen.

If I hear "Rushmen" or "Tampa 2" one more time, I think I'll puke.....................

 

[Alexander]

Amen.

If I hear "Rushmen" or "Tampa 2" one more time, I think I'll puke.....................

The most frustrating part is that Marinelli can be a little flexible.

He called some interesting gameplans against the Patriots and the first Washington game. But other than that, it was status quo.

Honestly, I think he needs to step up his game. I just do not know if he is that type. He is capable of doing it here and there, but the kind of sustained unpredictability just does not seem like something he has the desire or energy for.

Do not get me wrong, Phillips' machinations got stale too. He usually does well in one place, but then settles down.

 

[Sydla]

For Christmas I wanted a new, exciting, fresh coaching staff.

Santa screwed me.

 

[CATCH17]

Phillips' defense is also far more aggressive than most defenses, especially now where he felt that after a year out of football, he had something to prove. And he had the freedom to focus solely on the gameplan each week.

Most coaches, even good defensive ones, do not go for the throat in tight situations. Even their players noted that tendency from Phillips when comparing him to Jack Del Rio. He simply would be more aggressive and let the defenders pin their ears back.

Marinelli's schemes are nothing of the kind. They are conservative by nature constantly and require that "key stop" or "big play" by a player stepping up, with the system constraints to make that play, i.e. perfect execution, just the way it was drawn up on the white board. The concepts of pressure in the two schemes are radically different.

It's bend don't break football.

I'm convinced that we switched back to this style of Defense because of all the injuries we had in Rob Ryans last season as coach and they wanted a defense that they could call guys off the street and they could know the defense in 5 minutes.


Same goes with the offense really.


Garrett wants to keep it simple and ignore the chess side of football and put games 100% on the players.

He's taken it 1 step further by letting teams know that we will run it everytime on first down and if we come out in a certain formation we will also run in it 100% of the time.