Defensive Backs Combine Numbers

[Hoofbite]

mayock: they ask him about that jordy nelson play in every interview.



"So talib......what happened"

 

[TheCount]

Cromartie's official time is a 4.33, whew, maybe he will be there at 22 afterall.

And Talib's hips looked much better the second time he did the drill to the opposite side of the field. Show's good hands yet again to get the ball up high.

 

[WoodysGirl]

Talib could slip
11:43 AM Tue, Feb 26, 2008 | Permalink
Albert Breer E-mail News tips
Kansas CB Aqib Talib, of Richardson Berkner fame, won't fall out of the first round. But I'm having a hard time seeing how he's going to leave Indy atop a lot of teams draft boards at corner.

His 40 time was just good, and in a position drill where he was asked to turn his hips down a straight line, then break on a ball, he looked out of control. Meanwhile, our main man Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie shone in that drill, looking smooth down the line, then high-pointing the ball in the air.

Now, Rodgers-Cromartie represents a risk because of the level he played at collegiately. But if you didn't know better, from watching these drill, you'd probably think DRC was the better prospect. I'm just sayin'.


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The entry "Talib could slip" is tagged: Aqib Talib , Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie , NFL scouting combine

Categories: NFL Draft

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Wheatley wins bragging rights
11:20 AM Tue, Feb 26, 2008 | Permalink
Albert Breer E-mail News tips
No one thought Kansas CB Aqib Talib would top the DB charts in the 40-yard dash. But would you believe that he wasn't even the fastest Richardson product at the combine?

Colorado CB Terrence Wheatley went to Plano East, but his CU profile lists Richardson at his hometown, and he managed beat out Talib by .09 in the dash. Tried to call local sports guru Timmy Tabloid to verify this. He didn't answer, probably because he's still sore about the fact-checking I did on his faulty report earlier. Here's the unofficial top 10 DBs in the 40:

1. Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, Tennessee State: 4.28
2. Tyrod Branch, UConn: 4.29
3. Orlando Scandrick, Boise State: 4.30
4. Justin King, Penn State: 4.31
5. Josh Barrett, Arizona State: 4.33
6. Quintin Demps, UTEP: 4.37
7. Terrence Wheatley, Colorado: 4.38
8. Michael Grant, Arkansas: 4.39
9. Mike Jenkins, South Florida: 4.40
10. Leodis McKelvin, Troy: 4.40


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The entry "Wheatley wins bragging rights" is tagged: Aqib Talib , NFL scouting combine , Terrence Wheatley

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History made
11:13 AM Tue, Feb 26, 2008 | Permalink
Albert Breer E-mail News tips
LSU's Jonathan Zenon just finished the final 40 ever in the RCA Dome, clocking a 4.57.

The dome will be demolished over the summer, to make way for more convention space, and the event will move to the Colts new place -- Lucas Oil Stadium.

The NFL has a two-year deal to stage the combine there. And there have been rumblings that Dallas wouldn't mind getting itself in the bidding for the event down the line, which would mean trying to secure it for 2011.


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Deion's baffled
11:07 AM Tue, Feb 26, 2008 | Permalink
Albert Breer E-mail News tips

Deion Sanders just said on the NFL Network that he's baffled by how bad the safety play is in some places these days. His logic makes sense, too.

I wrote a whole enterprise story on this back in Boston last year. And it basically said what Deion's saying -- Better athletes should be placed at safety.

One of the guys I talked to for the story was Texas' Duane Akina, who told me the players he was rolling out at safety were actually better athletically, in some cases, than the corners. Hence the first-round selections of Michael Huff and Michael Griffin.

Anyway, it's an evolution thing within the game -- with more cover-2 defenses, which ask safeties to cover more ground, and spread offenses, which force matchups with safeties covering receivers. And it's something, I think, that's been a problem for the old-school, in-the-box types, like Roy Williams.


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Tribble does OK for himself
11:04 AM Tue, Feb 26, 2008 | Permalink
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One guy I think could have decent value in the middle rounds is Boston College CB DeJuan Tribble.

He's not going to be a shutdown corner, I'd agree.

But the way I see it is that this kid -- who was considered a first-round prospect in the middle of the college season -- plays smart, can cover an area and has a way of finding himself around the ball.

He just ran a 4.55. That's not going to make him millions. But I think it's good enough not to kill him, when som suspected he might bomb the run.

 

[TheCount]

The woes of live blogging, Cromartie's official time is #1 and Talib came back on the next drill and looked much better.

Cromartie has blazing feed though, I was hoping they'd show more film of him in college.

 

[Displaced Cowboy]

huh? you play 10 yds off so you don't get burned with safety help but still get you *** handed to you? I don't want a player like that. He maybe a great athlete but if he can't play football I don't want him. If you think he can be developed, then pick him in the 7th round. that's where developmental prospects are picked not 2nd round.

funny stuff

 

[Chuck 54]

The DC at VA Tech calls Flowers the best cover CB he's ever had there (includes DHall)...however, Flowers played the boundary side of the field (probably due to his speed or run support/size)...Macho Harris played the wide side of the field for the past two years.

 

[ThatsmyQB]

Throw out all those "Jerry Rice only ran a 4.6" comments, because they're meaningless. If he'd trained with today's trainers he might have broken a 4.3.

I don't think it's so cut and dry.
I mean DEION ran how fast how many years ago?
Bob Hayes ran HOW FAST how long ago?
Plus you got guys like Anquan Boldin running a 4.78 and being a STUD W.R. in the NFL!

I think you gotta look at how they perform ON THE FIELD and if you got two or three guys at a position ranked all close to each other, THEN you would use the pseed to put one ahead of the other, but I would be hesitant to plug someone in higher based SOLELY on speed over game film!
Remember Emmitt running bad bet on film he rarely ever got caught from behind they said wehn evaluating him, and Boldin like I said, and Irvin ran a 4.6 I believe, and he wasn't slow on the field either.

SPEED to me just pushes up a guy if they're closely ranked on film prior to the combine, I'd be weary of moving a guy up who I had as a 3rd round W.R. based on game film because he ran a 4.3 at the combine, cause if he was that fast, then his GAME FILM should of had him ranked higher to begin with, so something is missing.

We all knew guys like McFadden and Justin King and Dexter Jackson were FAST, so just because they ran fast at the combine shouldn't make them move up or down based on where you had them ranked prior to the combine based on game film IMO!

Also I personally have no idea why they don't make the players run the 40 yard dash and basically every drill just about in FULL PADS!
I mean, some players are FAST without pads and once the pads and extra weight and bulk they don't run as fast where others can run just as fast with pads on or off, my guess is that's what players like Irvin, Rice, Boldin can do, the extra weight and bulk doesn't slow them down, but players like a Dexter Jackson who ran a 4.27 might only run a 4.4.5 with pads on cause his body is smaller and all the extra stuff on slows him down considerably more than a guy like James Hardy who's 6'5 and 220 pounds.

Bottom line, don't put too much stock in the combine numbers, guys like Mike Mamula happen every year, go by GAME FILM and you'll be a lot better off and only use SPEED and Bench press to move guys who are rated the SAME on game film.
Mark Stepnoski was small for a center and I'm sure he wasn't a good bench presser, could be wrong, but he wasn't a HUGE GUY or a muscle guy, and was very small even in his day, but he used such great leverage, he was fine, pro-bowl fine, so while bench press and speed are important, I'd only use is to move guys up or down if they are ranked so closely together, but would never move a guy heads and shoulders above another guy based solely on the combines.

 

[WoodysGirl]

^^
This post needs more exclamation points!!!!

 

[ThatsmyQB]

The DC at VA Tech calls Flowers the best cover CB he's ever had there (includes DHall)...however, Flowers played the boundary side of the field (probably due to his speed or run support/size)...Macho Harris played the wide side of the field for the past two years.

Can you explain the boundary side and the wide side of the field, I never heard those terms before.

 

[ThatsmyQB]

^^
This post needs more exclamation points!!!!

this post is a waste of everyone's time!

 

[jterrell]

Can you explain the boundary side and the wide side of the field, I never heard those terms before.

In College the CBs can, and do at VaTech, flop sides based on distance from the sideline.

In theory the wide side guy is the more pure cover guy and the boundary guy stops the run better.

 

[jterrell]

I don't think it's so cut and dry.
I mean DEION ran how fast how many years ago?
Bob Hayes ran HOW FAST how long ago?
Plus you got guys like Anquan Boldin running a 4.78 and being a STUD W.R. in the NFL!

40 times are vastly overrated to be sure... except perhaps at CB where the guys job is to run. And seeing them in pads would be very nice.

Deion ran a 4.2x.

Boldin had a hammy injury. He is a 4.4 to 4.5 guy when healthy. He is not Keyshawn Johnson slow.

Jerry Rice got better every day after he entered the league. He improved his speed, strength, route-running and hands.

If the ugy cna play football then shows up as a playmaker becaus eof his athleticism that is a guy you want to draft: see Demarcus Ware for example.

A guy like our own Roy Williams was a huge play-maker but his pedestrian speed and lack of upper body strength have followed him to the pros.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

this post is a waste of everyone's time!

whoa, calm down newb, she was complimenting you

and only I am allowed to give her guff

 

[WoodysGirl]

whoa, calm down newb, she was complimenting you

and only I am allowed to give her guff

Actually I wasn't so much complimenting him as I was reading it with Screamin Stephen A. Smith's voice in my head. It read very well actually.

As for my post being a waste of time, well, it wouldn't be the first.

And no, B.S., you're not allowed to give me guff.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Can you explain the boundary side and the wide side of the field, I never heard those terms before.

Like JT said, the distinction comes from the college hash marks being so much wider than they are in the pros. In college, the side of the field opposite the far hash is so much wider and more open than the one closer to the boundary that the best cover guys are usually put there. In the NFL, the hash marks are so close together that there's not enough difference to do that.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

And no, B.S., you're not allowed to give me guff.

not even a smidgen?

 

[WoodysGirl]

not even a smidgen?

I'll have to think about it...


uhm, nope.

 

[5mics]

Talib? He'll be there at 22. And I hope we DON'T take him, unless Jenkins, DRC, Cason, and McKelvin are all gone.

I'm glad DRC blew-up cuz the CB I prefer is.....McKelvin. Now maybe the Texans will take DRC and we get McKelvin!

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I'll have to think about it...


uhm, nope.

I hate quick thinkers

 

[theogt]

I don't think it's so cut and dry.
I mean DEION ran how fast how many years ago?
Bob Hayes ran HOW FAST how long ago?

Of course some guys ran fast in the past. The point is that 40 times as a whole are better now than in the past because of training. None of us know what kind of training Rice had when he came out, but coming out of a small school I doubt he had great training in the 40. You can almost gurantee, however, that guys today received the proper training, so their 40 time is their "true time" in the sense that it's the best time they could put up with the maximum amount of training.

Plus you got guys like Anquan Boldin running a 4.78 and being a STUD W.R. in the NFL!

I think you gotta look at how they perform ON THE FIELD and if you got two or three guys at a position ranked all close to each other, THEN you would use the pseed to put one ahead of the other, but I would be hesitant to plug someone in higher based SOLELY on speed over game film!

Of course. The exception might be for guys like DeMarcus Ware or DRC -- small school guys that didn't play against great competition in college such that you could compare his ability well against the other players on the field. In that case, if their numbers match the film, you'd obviously place them higher on your draft board than you would if they had slow Combine numbers.

Remember Emmitt running bad bet on film he rarely ever got caught from behind they said wehn evaluating him, and Boldin like I said, and Irvin ran a 4.6 I believe, and he wasn't slow on the field either.

40 time for RBs is a useless stat.

SPEED to me just pushes up a guy if they're closely ranked on film prior to the combine, I'd be weary of moving a guy up who I had as a 3rd round W.R. based on game film because he ran a 4.3 at the combine, cause if he was that fast, then his GAME FILM should of had him ranked higher to begin with, so something is missing.

We all knew guys like McFadden and Justin King and Dexter Jackson were FAST, so just because they ran fast at the combine shouldn't make them move up or down based on where you had them ranked prior to the combine based on game film IMO!

Agreed.

Also I personally have no idea why they don't make the players run the 40 yard dash and basically every drill just about in FULL PADS!
I mean, some players are FAST without pads and once the pads and extra weight and bulk they don't run as fast where others can run just as fast with pads on or off, my guess is that's what players like Irvin, Rice, Boldin can do, the extra weight and bulk doesn't slow them down, but players like a Dexter Jackson who ran a 4.27 might only run a 4.4.5 with pads on cause his body is smaller and all the extra stuff on slows him down considerably more than a guy like James Hardy who's 6'5 and 220 pounds.

I don't think running with pads really adds much. What makes a guy look faster on the field isn't because he runs faster with pads on, but because his instincts and reaction time make him look faster. You're not going to get that out of just putting pads on them while they run the 40.

Bottom line, don't put too much stock in the combine numbers, guys like Mike Mamula happen every year, go by GAME FILM and you'll be a lot better off and only use SPEED and Bench press to move guys who are rated the SAME on game film.

Of course.