Defensive Player of the Year

[percyhoward]

I'm not sure where you're looking...

Thanks for the info. I was looking under sack leaders, where the passes defended stat is included for some players, but not Ware.

Notice how his forced fumbles don't appear on the page you posted.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Top 5 in Sacks (total tackles)
Allen 15.5 (64 tackles)
Kerney 14.5 (60)
Ware 14 (84)
Williams 14 (59)
Umenyiora 13 (52)

Ware's tackle total shows that he's more than just a sack specialist. Not only does he have the most tackles of the top 5 sack leaders, he has the most tackles of the TOP 20.

It's pretty amazing when Wade says that Ware makes more plays than any outside backer he's ever had when you think about him coaching the likes of Rickey Jackson, Bryce Paup (DPOY), Cornelius Bennett (if I read the dates right), and Merriman... And those just off the top of my head.

 

[Vtwin]

As has been mentioned, tackles are an unofficial stat and cannot be compared between players on different teams or in different games. Besides, inside linebackers on bad teams often pile up tackle numbers. (Just ask Eugene Lockhart.) Their opponents run the ball so much, and their teammates are so bad, that they can't help but make a lot of tackles.

A DPOY should be a guy who makes impact plays, not just piles up tackles downfield or magically inspires teammates with his mere presence.

But yet you always trot out the "tackles" stat in defense of #31.

Aye yi yi......

 

[Bob Sacamano]

thanks for the correction Percy, I thought he had a bunch

 

[superpunk]

Thanks for the info. I was looking under sack leaders, where the passes defended stat is included for some players, but not Ware.

Notice how his forced fumbles don't appear on the page you posted.

It's at the top in quick stats. Not sure why that's the only place it appears.

 

[Chuck 54]

Top 5 in Sacks (total tackles)
Allen 15.5 (64 tackles)
Kerney 14.5 (60)
Ware 14 (84)
Williams 14 (59)
Umenyiora 13 (52)

Ware's tackle total shows that he's more than just a sack specialist. Not only does he have the most tackles of the top 5 sack leaders, he has the most tackles of the TOP 20.

I don't see why being the top sack guy makes you the best defensive player, though I agree with your point when comparing him to other sack guys.

Not one of them has even 1 sack per game...I just don't see how that makes them the MVP of defense....Charles Haley was more disruptive in Dallas with constant pressure even when he didn't get sacks, more disruptive than Ware at this early stage of his career, but he didn't win that award here either.

I think a guy who makes 174 tackles from the LB spot is more valuable...Willis has been described by other guys around the NFL as a beast and as "a bowling ball of butcher blades", whatever that means.

I'd take him or a CB who shuts down his side of the field consistantly.

 

[Chuck 54]

As has been mentioned, tackles are an unofficial stat and cannot be compared between players on different teams or in different games. Besides, inside linebackers on bad teams often pile up tackle numbers. (Just ask Eugene Lockhart.) Their opponents run the ball so much, and their teammates are so bad, that they can't help but make a lot of tackles.

A DPOY should be a guy who makes impact plays, not just piles up tackles downfield or magically inspires teammates with his mere presence.

Your first paragraph is fact, which doesn't change my opinion on the value, but your second pph is clearly just an opinion of yours. Personally, I'd look at a particular season and decide which defensive player I'd want to select first if starting an expansion team...who's the one player I'd want if I was starting to build a defense...I love Ware as a Cowboy,but he would not be my first choice...I don't know what his year has been like this year, but I'd even take Champ Bailey over Ware if I had that choice....but we're all just sharing opinions here.

I'll say this much to everyone on the board....dWare will NOT win the defensive player of the year award in my opinion...I'll be shocked. I don't see any way in the world that happens.

If he wins it, I'll swallow and admit I was wrong....unfortunately, if a guy like Sanders wins it, most posters will just whine about how unfair it is for their poor Cowboys and the bias they face...I get tired of that complaint.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I don't see why being the top sack guy makes you the best defensive player,

it doesn't necessarily mean that you are the best defensive player, just that you make a big impact on the game, and plus, DPOY voters are swayed to whoever has alot of sacks

I think a guy who makes 174 tackles from the LB spot is more valuable...

why? how many of those tackles come on 1st downs? 2nd downs? 3rd downs to force a change of possession? how many yards are gained, or lost because of his tackles? I would need to see alot of evidence why a guy on a bad D, who gets a lot of tackles, would be the best defensive player in the game

and what corner consistently shutsdown their side of the field nowadays? Champ Bailey is widely considered to be the best CB in the NFl, and he doesn't even come close to doing that

 

[Chuck 54]

it doesn't necessarily mean that you are the best defensive player, just that you make a big impact on the game, and plus, DPOY voters are swayed to whoever has alot of sacks



why? how many of those tackles come on 1st downs? 2nd downs? 3rd downs to force a change of possession? how many yards are gained, or lost because of his tackles? I would need to see alot of evidence why a guy on a bad D, who gets a lot of tackles, would be the best defensive player in the game

and what corner consistently shutsdown their side of the field nowadays? Champ Bailey is widely considered to be the best CB in the NFl, and he doesn't even come close to doing that

We're just talking opinions here...I just don't see Ware as the most valuable defensive player in the league...there are plenty of guys I'd prefer to have on the team, although he's developing into a great one.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I'll say this much to everyone on the board....dWare will NOT win the defensive player of the year award in my opinion...I'll be shocked. I don't see any way in the world that happens.

wow, don't need to exaggerate here to try and make your point

If he wins it, I'll swallow and admit I was wrong....unfortunately, if a guy like Sanders wins it, most posters will just whine about how unfair it is for their poor Cowboys and the bias they face...I get tired of that complaint.

why not just be glad for him instead?

 

[Bob Sacamano]

We're just talking opinions here...I just don't see Ware as the most valuable defensive player in the league...there are plenty of guys I'd prefer to have on the team, although he's developing into a great one.

fair enough, but doesn't change the fact that Ware is right in the thick of the discussion

and by prefer to have, do you mean over Ware?

 

[khiladi]

Defensive Player of the Year:


Jacques Reeves...

Book it...

 

[Temo]

Patrick Willis was crazy good this season, anyone who doesn't realize that hasn't seen enough 49er games (don't ask why I've watched them, but I have). He's everywhere on the field, I see him making plays all the time.

That being said, I think the DPOY can go to either Bob Sanders, Ware, Albert Haynesworth, or Patrick Kearny. Those are my picks, but you can definitely put in a bunch of other players in the mix as well. Anyone who says that XXXXX player is a clear cut favorite for the DPOY is just plain wrong. No one stood out that much this year.

 

[CrazyCowboy]

Ware had better win or the award is a joke

 

[ThreeSportStar80]

What plays does Sanders ever make? If he wins the award, no DPOY ever will have made FEWER big plays than Sanders did this season.

Every defensive back who has ever won DPOY has had AT LEAST a combined nine interceptions and touchdowns when they won the award. Sanders has two. And he has made almost no other big plays, either.

Don't make too much sense they will not like it... I've said for years Ed Reed is better than any safety in the NFL, he earned his.

 

[Chuck 54]

fair enough, but doesn't change the fact that Ware is right in the thick of the discussion

and by prefer to have, do you mean over Ware?

Yes...I'd only trade him for someone like Bailey or Trufont, or if we were in a 4-3, I'd definitely prefer some of the DE's over him, and frankly, I still think Merriman is a beast, and before the steroids thing, I would have traded them straight up....merriman is still a great player, but now I'd be afraid he'd get busted again.

I'll get my chops busted for letting it be known that I prefer certain players over Ware, but I'd still put him in the top 10 of all defensive players....and while he's improved tremendously as a pure LB and will only get better and better, if he got put into a 4-3, I'd have a hard time putting him in the top 10 until he proved himself...I'd have doubts about him as a full time DE or OLB in that scheme...not doubts that he'd be excellent, but doubts about him being one of the top guys as the discussion is going now.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Yes...I'd only trade him for someone like Bailey or Trufont

why? they need a pass-rush

or if we were in a 4-3, I'd definitely prefer some of the DE's over him

well, we're not

and frankly, I still think Merriman is a beast, and before the steroids thing, I would have traded them straight up....merriman is still a great player, but now I'd be afraid he'd get busted again.

but why?

I'll get my chops busted for letting it be known that I prefer certain players over Ware, but I'd still put him in the top 10 of all defensive players....and while he's improved tremendously as a pure LB and will only get better and better, if he got put into a 4-3, I'd have a hard time putting him in the top 10 until he proved himself...I'd have doubts about him as a full time DE or OLB in that scheme...not doubts that he'd be excellent, but doubts about him being one of the top guys as the discussion is going now.

why do you constantly bring up the 43? we don't run the 43

Ware is one of the front-runners for DPOY, deal w/ it

 

[AdamJT13]

Personally, I'd look at a particular season and decide which defensive player I'd want to select first if starting an expansion team.

No offense, but that would be poor criteria for selecting a player of the year of any sort. If Brett Favre had passed for 6,000 yards and 60 touchdowns and led Green Bay to a 16-0 season, he should be the OPOY in a landslide. But there's no way anyone would want to select a 38-year-old quarterback first if they were starting an expansion team.

It should be about who had the best season, not who has the best future potential or whatever. And having the best season generally means making an impact of some sort.

who's the one player I'd want if I was starting to build a defense...I love Ware as a Cowboy,but he would not be my first choice...I don't know what his year has been like this year, but I'd even take Champ Bailey over Ware if I had that choice....but we're all just sharing opinions here.

I certainly wouldn't trade Ware straight-up for Bailey right now, especially considering that Ware is 25 and Bailey is 29. A premier pass-rusher (4-3 end or 3-4 OLB) is one of the critical positions for a defense, even moreso than cornerback, because they can have a bigger, more consistent impact on games, both on runs and on passes.

Frankly, I wouldn't trade Ware for any other defensive player in the league right now.

I'll say this much to everyone on the board....dWare will NOT win the defensive player of the year award in my opinion...I'll be shocked. I don't see any way in the world that happens.

If he wins it, I'll swallow and admit I was wrong....unfortunately, if a guy like Sanders wins it, most posters will just whine about how unfair it is for their poor Cowboys and the bias they face...I get tired of that complaint.

Well, get used to it, because it does exist. And I'm not expecting Ware to win it, either. Not because of an anti-Cowboys bias, but because the media has blindly bought into the Bob Sanders hype.

 

[AdamJT13]

But yet you always trot out the "tackles" stat in defense of #31.

When have I ever "trotted out" tackle stats in defense of anyone?

 

[Rampage]

When have I ever "trotted out" tackle stats in defense of anyone?

for roy just like he mentioned