Defensive Player of the Year

[AdamJT13]

for roy just like he mentioned

I've never "trotted out" tackle stats in defense of Roy, and I've never said any player was better than another because he has more tackles (speaking of players on different teams), whether it's Roy or anyone else.

On the contrary, I've repeated many times what the NFL itself says about tackles -- "Tackles are not an official NFL statistic. Teams record tackles individually. Because of differences in standards, discrepancies may arise when comparing tackles from player to player or team to team." And I've explained many times why and how the tackle numbers kept during games are inaccurate, even giving examples of the problems with them.

 

[Idgit]

But yet you always trot out the "tackles" stat in defense of #31.

Aye yi yi......

for roy just like he mentioned

Why do you guys do this? This isn't rhetorical, I want to know why.

Don't you get tired of being embarrassed, even on an anonymous sports message board? And when the evidence is so easy to verify, what's the point? You've got nothing to gain, and it only underlines the fact that you clearly don't pay careful attention to anything that's posted in the RW threads you're referencing. It's just dumb.

 

[stealth]

I love how the word defense is enough for people to find a reason to bash roy.

I am actually going to test this out in the real world, I will just walk up to people say the word "defense" and see if they start spouting off about how awful roy williams is. I will report back my findings...

 

[Vtwin]

Why do you guys do this? This isn't rhetorical, I want to know why.

Don't you get tired of being embarrassed, even on an anonymous sports message board? And when the evidence is so easy to verify, what's the point? You've got nothing to gain, and it only underlines the fact that you clearly don't pay careful attention to anything that's posted in the RW threads you're referencing. It's just dumb.

Not embarrassed in the least.I am not going to sift through all the posts to find a few that prove my point but if push came to shove and I had a real compelling reason to do so I am absolutely confident that I could find the ones that I am remembering in which the stats man has used the tackles stat (among others) to make his case for #31. He has used the tackles stat to compare #31 against other strong safeties and against his own defensive teamates.THAT my friend IS A FACT and is documented right here in black and white on this very discussion forum.

 

[JPM]

.THAT my friend IS A FACT and is documented right here in black and white on this very discussion forum.

Find it then.

 

[superpunk]

Here you go, vtwin.

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/search.php?searchid=378146

That's all the posts since the beginning of time by Adam containing the words "Tackles" and "Williams". I've done half the work for you already. There are only 30 posts. Have fun.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Great at his position? What does he do that's great?

Man, I am completely blown away when people make statements like this. Sanders is the heart and soul of the Colts defense. Without Sanders, the Colts would have bowed out of the playoffs last year in their first game. They went from the NFL's worst defense against the run, to one of the best, to Super Bowl Champions.

It is absolutely psychotic to say otherwise, yet for some unknown hater like reason he gets disrespected for what he brings to the Colts defense.

What is it? Because he doesn't intercept 6-10 passes a year? Well, I guess Terrence Newman sucks something fierce because he has NEVER intercepted more than four passes in a season and is *supposed* to be a TOP teir CB.

Bob Sanders, is a Roy Williams type safety who hasn't become timid and affraid. The guy makes plays the way Roy Williams used to make plays. His biggest asset is his ability to stop the run, and he is a better coverage safety than Roy Williams.

 

[kmd24]

Bob Sanders, is a Roy Williams type safety who hasn't become timid and affraid. The guy makes plays the way Roy Williams used to make plays. His biggest asset is his ability to stop the run, and he is a better coverage safety than Roy Williams.

Doesn't KC Joyner compile some detailed statistics on coverage abilities? I wonder how the two players compare using his presumably objective statistics.

 

[AdamJT13]

I could find the ones that I am remembering in which the stats man has used the tackles stat (among others) to make his case for #31. He has used the tackles stat to compare #31 against other strong safeties

I've never done that on any message board, nor would I for any player. I might discuss tackles in some form, but I'd never say so-and-so is better because he had X number of tackles more than such-and-such player(s) on other teams. Like I said, I've been saying that's not legitimate all along, for at least nine years -- http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.football.pro.dallas-cowboys/msg/5076f072ae1344ab

and against his own defensive teamates.

First of all, there's not really anything wrong with doing that, as long as they're all playing in the same games. The problem with tackle stats is that there is no uniform standard for awarding them from game-to-game. But within each game, the standards are the same. You can't compare players who aren't playing in all of the same games (players on different teams), but within the same games, you don't have to worry about differing standards. Then the only question is accuracy.

Secondly, when I've mentioned tackle stats for some our own players (such as who leads the team, etc.), I've almost always used the tackle stats compiled by our coaches during film review -- which are more accurate and ARE official, as far as the team is concerned.

THAT my friend IS A FACT and is documented right here in black and white on this very discussion forum.

Still waiting for evidence.

 

[AdamJT13]

Doesn't KC Joyner compile some detailed statistics on coverage abilities? I wonder how the two players compare using his presumably objective statistics.

Joyner's 2007 stats won't be known until his book comes out next summer, unless he happens to mention them on ESPN.com before that. And Sanders didn't play enough last year to get listed in Joyner's book. In 2005 (the 2006 book), Joyner says Sanders, "did OK in his success percentages but did very poorly in YPA and SYPA. Neither (Sanders nor the Colts' other starting safety, Mike Doss) was very good against the deep pass." Out of 37 "run" safeties, Sanders ranked 35th in YPA and 31st in SYPA. On deep passes, he ranked 31st in YPA and 30th in SYPA. (Since you asked, Roy ranked 24th, 28th, 18th and 14th in those categories.)

Football Outsiders' book does mention Sanders' stats from last season. The sample size is very small, but his success rate was only 29 percent (by far one of the worst in the league), and he allowed 14.8 yards per attempt (also one of the worst). (Since you asked, Roy's numbers were 59 percent and 8.8 yards per attempt.)

And how did this turn into a comparison of Sanders and Roy? We were discussing whether Sanders should be DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR (which he was chosen as), not how he compares to someone seemingly two-thirds of our fans think is terrible.

 

[Big Country]

It will be announced Monday, unless it gets leaked before then.

From the sounds of it, Bob Sanders will win -- which would be a joke. No DPOY in history will have done less.

It wouldn't surprise me one bit... He is the tape, glue, and all the stuff that impacts his defense... even more so since Freeney went down in the SD game...

But on the other hand... D Ware is easily a top 3 DPOY candidate.

 

[AdamJT13]

It wouldn't surprise me one bit... He is the tape, glue, and all the stuff that impacts his defense... even more so since Freeney went down in the SD game...

But on the other hand... D Ware was at least top 3 if he doesn't get the award...

Ware finished tied for fifth in the voting with Mike Vrabel. Sanders won, which is a complete joke. Kerney and Haynesworth tied for second, and Cromartie finished fourth. Jared Allen didn't get a single vote, which is another joke, considering that Mario Williams and Ronde Barber did.

 

[theogt]

Man, I am completely blown away when people make statements like this. Sanders is the heart and soul of the Colts defense. Without Sanders, the Colts would have bowed out of the playoffs last year in their first game. They went from the NFL's worst defense against the run, to one of the best, to Super Bowl Champions.

It is absolutely psychotic to say otherwise, yet for some unknown hater like reason he gets disrespected for what he brings to the Colts defense.

What is it? Because he doesn't intercept 6-10 passes a year? Well, I guess Terrence Newman sucks something fierce because he has NEVER intercepted more than four passes in a season and is *supposed* to be a TOP teir CB.

Bob Sanders, is a Roy Williams type safety who hasn't become timid and affraid. The guy makes plays the way Roy Williams used to make plays. His biggest asset is his ability to stop the run, and he is a better coverage safety than Roy Williams.

Oh, he's the "heart and soul" of the defense. That makes him DPOY. I was wondering. For a second there I thought it was based on some nebulous concept rendering comparisons between players useless. But now that I know it's based on being the "heart and soul" of a team, it's clear he's the hands down winner.

 

[theogt]

Ware finished tied for fifth in the voting with Mike Vrabel. Sanders won, which is a complete joke. Kerney and Haynesworth tied for second, and Cromartie finished fourth. Jared Allen didn't get a single vote, which is another joke, considering that Mario Williams and Ronde Barber did.

Sanders has twice the "heart and soul" of his defense than Vrable or Ware!!!!!111111111

 

[Rampage]

Sanders has twice the "heart and soul" of his defense than Vrable or Ware!!!!!111111111

you seem like you're really bothered by sanders winning the award

 

[AdamJT13]

Man, I am completely blown away when people make statements like this. Sanders is the heart and soul of the Colts defense.

But that shouldn't be a qualification for being named the best defensive player in the NFL.

Without Sanders, the Colts would have bowed out of the playoffs last year in their first game.

At home, against Kansas City?

They went from the NFL's worst defense against the run, to one of the best, to Super Bowl Champions.

One of the best? When?

It is absolutely psychotic to say otherwise, yet for some unknown hater like reason he gets disrespected for what he brings to the Colts defense. What is it? Because he doesn't intercept 6-10 passes a year?

Six to 10? He doesn't intercept even half that many. He doesn't break up passes. He doesn't force fumbles. He doesn't create turnovers. He doesn't pressure the quarterback. He just doesn't make big plays.

Well, I guess Terrence Newman ****s something fierce because he has NEVER intercepted more than four passes in a season and is *supposed* to be a TOP teir CB.

First of all, four interceptions isn't a low number for one season. (It's as many as Sanders has in his entire career.) And secondly, cornerbacks are asked to shut down wide receivers first, make plays second. Newman shuts down receivers extremely well and makes enough plays. Sanders doesn't shut down anyone, nor does he make plays (which is a bigger factor for safeties than cornerbacks).

Bob Sanders, is a Roy Williams type safety who hasn't become timid and affraid. The guy makes plays the way Roy Williams used to make plays.

Sanders doesn't make nearly as many plays as Roy usually makes. Roy had seven takeaways last season (leading all safeties) and created six turnovers the year before that. Sanders created only two turnovers this season and had only three takeaways.

he is a better coverage safety than Roy Williams.

We don't have any numbers to judge this season yet, but Roy has been better in coverage in previous seasons.

But again, this isn't about whether Sanders is better than Roy. It's about whether he's better than every other defensive player in the NFL.

 

[ThreeSportStar80]

Demarcus Ware should have won this award, look at the plays he's made throughout the year in critical points, Sanders doesn't have as many!

 

[AdamJT13]

Demarcus Ware should have won this award, look at the plays he's made throughout the year in critical points, Sanders doesn't have as many!

Like I said before he won, Sanders made far fewer big plays than ANY previous Defensive Player of the Year ever has.

Every defensive back that won the award before now had AT LEAST a combined NINE interceptions and touchdowns off interceptions. Sanders had a whopping two. And he didn't even lead his own team in any defensive category.

 

[SultanOfSix]

I told you anything voted on by the media is joke.

Well, I'm a little glad he lost. We'll see how it affects him come playoff time.

 

[superpunk]

Honestly, it's an embarassment to the AP that Sanders won the award. IMO, he's winning it for the season-ending performance of the Colts defense LAST year, not anything he's ever actually accomplished.

The AP got carried away with the "story" of Bob Sanders - and that's why he won. Not because he was the best defender in the NFL this year.

No votes for Jared Allen or Trent Cole? Please....