Dez is a good player but he's not one of the best of all time

[ABQCOWBOY]

I completely agree with your thesis.

Having said that, Joe Montana was the greatest QB I've ever seen. The guy had seasons where he passed for 70%+ completions and 110+ QB rating back in the 1980s when the league average completion % was in the 50's and QB rating average was in the 70s.

If he played today it would be equivalent to throwing for like 78% completion and a 140 QB rating.

It's mind boggling.

Well, yes and know. I absolutely agree with our methodology of comparisons. I think that's the best way to compare players from different eras but, if we assume Montana would still play in the WCO, then I think those numbers would come down significantly. Defenses are much more adept at defending the WCO then they were back when Montana played. It's a different game so that would have to be considered as well. His high completion percentage if the product of the offense he played in, IMO. Today, I don't think you would see that kind of production. That's why the WCO is not the predominant offense it once was, IMO.

 

[the_h0wey]

I think that Dez is a great weapon for the Cowboys and I am glad that we have him on our team at this point. However, many posters seem to be lauding him as one of the best receivers of all time. I don't see how a person could say that at this time, although he does seem to be getting better the longer he is in the league.

I am looking for objective discussion about where he ranks as a Cowboys receiver, all time. Personally I can think of several players who are arguably better than him which would likely include Michael Irvin, Drew Pearson and Bullet Bob Hayes. I am sure there are several others that we could throw in there as well. Thoughts?

Well he is only 24 years old so who the heck knows how he will rank in the Cowboys all time receivers. He is certainly on pace to break a few records.

 

[Gameover]

Dez is the type of WR that makes the other WRs better because he draws so much coverage. You can save on the other guys, they are much easier to find and replace. I would rather go with 12m to Dez, 1m to TWill, 500k to Beasely and Harris than have 4- 3m dollar, average guys.

Not true

 

[TTexasTT]

Just telling it like it is.

no your not. youre just trying (and failing) to get on a soap box. Do you honestly think that pointing out stuff that happened 40 years ago is going to give any credit to you as a knowledgable "FAN"? You seriously listed a block on one play as evidence to support your claim.
Youre not telling it like it is. Youre just slamming limp wrists into a keyboard in a condescending manner to other members with some sort of self worth that you just. dont. have.
Drew Pearson was a wonderful reciever some 30 years ago but lets face it. The game is nothing like it was back then... I assume you know this because Im being a realist and Im telling it like it is.

Not true

You know this from the few good games that Williams has had? Are you even aware of why he was still available at the spot he was drafted?
Im starting to think youre trolling everyone here.

EDIT- Just looked at your post history and topics. LOL youre trolling your way through this world.

 

[KJJ]

Your opinion of how it is and how it really is can be two different things. That applies to so-called homers and realists alike. Oh, and just because a statement is negative or anti-Cowboys doesn't make it objective or fact.

Go Cowboys.

This board like all Cowboy fan boards is a mixture of homers and realists who all support the team. That's not just an opinion it's a fact. Any statement concerning the Cowboys whether it be pro Cowboys or anti Cowboys doesn't make it objective or fact. Any opinion of the Cowboys positive or negative can be a biased opinion. For any opinion to be credible it needs to be supported by some facts.

 

[KJJ]

There are quite a few homers that do take thier personal opinions too far.
However, the guys who do this "realist" act are far worse and try to use words like "objective" and cliches like "tell it like it is" before claiming they know more than than the guys who are payed to know these NFL issues. Like most, I tend to ignore these "realist" brain childs who want to cherry pick stats to support thier claim.

The ones who act like they know more than the experts who actually coached and played the game are the homers. They claim those who get paid to talk about the game are idiots if they have anything negative to say about the Cowboys. The experts only look smart when they see the Cowboys the same way they do. You have one FAN on this board who rips ESPN all the time for their views on the Cowboys but praises articles and opinions by Micky Spagnola the biggest Cowboys homer outside of Jerry Jones. Most "realists" have stats and facts to support their views on the team while the homers only have their own biased opinions.

 

[Gameover]

no your not. youre just trying (and failing) to get on a soap box. Do you honestly think that pointing out stuff that happened 40 years ago is going to give any credit to you as a knowledgable "FAN"? You seriously listed a block on one play as evidence to support your claim.
Youre not telling it like it is. Youre just slamming limp wrists into a keyboard in a condescending manner to other members with some sort of self worth that you just. dont. have.
Drew Pearson was a wonderful reciever some 30 years ago but lets face it. The game is nothing like it was back then... I assume you know this because Im being a realist and Im telling it like it is.




You know this from the few good games that Williams has had? Are you even aware of why he was still available at the spot he was drafted?
Im starting to think youre trolling everyone here.

EDIT- Just looked at your post history and topics. LOL youre trolling your way through this world.

I wasn't aware that a players career would automatically align with his draft position.

I guess there goes Terrell Owens and Jason Witten's hall chances.

Wasn't Tom Brady a sixth rounder?

I know jason witten had no business lasting until the third round.

I see big time natraul ability when I watch Williams play.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

1994?

Brady won his SB in a watered down era.

His first he won w/o having a TD drive over 65 yards.

Yes, 94.

I agree that Brady has won in a watered down era but, if we are only talking about stats, then we have to consider the fact that Montana had much, much better talent around him. Montana played with Rice, Clark, Taylor, Craig, Solomon, Francis, Tyler, Jones and Rathman. All in their peeks. Brady has never had that kind of talent surrounding him.

I do think it's true about the fact that the league is watered down and the rules are much easier but in the case of San Fran, because that offense was relatively new to the league, or should I say, not seen in many a year, the 49ers and Montana had a bit of an advantage that was unique to them IMO.

All of those things have to be considered in the comparison and it's still not easy to determine. Both are simply two of the finest QBs I've ever seen play.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

See I've always seen Owens as being much faster. I feel like Owens had legit low 4.3 speed. He could get behind defenses easily, and one indicator of his speed that I remember was when Felix Jones was running down the sideline in GB (I think it was GB) and Owens passes him easily, coming from quite a ways back to make sure he got in the end zone. And I believe this was Felix Jones rookie year when he was still a speedster and Owens was 34.

I've always viewed Bryant as a 4.45 type guy. He's not one to blow the doors off defenders, but he's not slow either.

I could be wrong though.

No, he wasn't really all that fast. Now, if you simply allowed him to run free, he was a long strider and so he could get up to high speed and be tough to stay with but he wasn't real, real quick and he was not a real fast 40 guy. 100 or 200, that's probably a different story. What he was was very big, had huge hands and was strong as an Ox. He, IMO, was stronger then Dez but here again, Dez is not finish maturing so we'll have to see.

 

[KJJ]

no your not. youre just trying (and failing) to get on a soap box. Do you honestly think that pointing out stuff that happened 40 years ago is going to give any credit to you as a knowledgable "FAN"? You seriously listed a block on one play as evidence to support your claim.
Youre not telling it like it is. Youre just slamming limp wrists into a keyboard in a condescending manner to other members with some sort of self worth that you just. dont. have.
Drew Pearson was a wonderful reciever some 30 years ago but lets face it. The game is nothing like it was back then... I assume you know this because Im being a realist and Im telling it like it is.

I point out things that happened 40 years ago, 20 years ago and just last last season which means I do research. I tell it exactly like it is and have stats and facts to support everything I post do you? Which play are you referring to that supports my claim and what exactly was my claim? Drew Pearson was a great receiver during his era just like Roger Staubach was a great QB during his. The game has changed a lot since they played and will continue to change through the years so you can't base everything off a players stats. QB's and receivers numbers are inflated today due to the many rule changes and the NFL being a pass happy league.

 

[TrailBlazer]

No, he wasn't really all that fast. Now, if you simply allowed him to run free, he was a long strider and so he could get up to high speed and be tough to stay with but he wasn't real, real quick and he was not a real fast 40 guy. 100 or 200, that's probably a different story. What he was was very big, had huge hands and was strong as an Ox. He, IMO, was stronger then Dez but here again, Dez is not finish maturing so we'll have to see.

He was pretty fast. The only thing that he lacked was great hands. He dropped a lot of balls.

 

[KJJ]

Youre not telling it like it is. Youre just slamming limp wrists into a keyboard in a condescending manner to other members with some sort of self worth that you just. dont. have..

That statement along with the trolling comment you made is what I consider slamming limp wrists into a keyboard.

 

[TTexasTT]

That statement along with the trolling comment you made is what I consider slamming limp wrists into a keyboard.

Thats a sweet story. I will definately bookmark it and read it again.

He was pretty fast. The only thing that he lacked was great hands. He dropped a lot of balls.

I agree. Its really hard to compare the two because the two have such a different style.

 

[KJJ]

Thats a sweet story. I will definately bookmark it and read it again.

Glad you were touched by it. While you're reading it again maybe that will give you enough time to come up with an answer to my questions.

 

[gimmesix]

The guy is just a monster in the Red zone

I'm sure he'll be the next Cowboy to get a rule named after him for pushing defenders away on back-shoulder fades in the end zone.

 

[percyhoward]

Despite being a rookie who started slow, he's the 5th ranked receiver on a per play basis(Dvoa)!

Where is the great Dez Bryant ranked? 30th.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr

Last year's four All-Pro WR's rank an average of 35th.

Being ranked 5th on a per-play basis doesn't make Williams a better receiver than Dez and the four All-Pro's, but it does mean he needs more than 4 targets per game.

And he'll get them.

 

[TTexasTT]

Glad you were touched by it. While you're reading it again maybe it will give you enough time to come up with an answer to my questions.

I didnt read them. There is really no point in arguing with someone like yourself.
It would be as as pointless as debating religion or politics.

EDIT- The "someone like yourself" was not meant to sound as an insult. More like "anyone" really.

 

[ROUSH8692]

I think that Dez is a great weapon for the Cowboys and I am glad that we have him on our team at this point. However, many posters seem to be lauding him as one of the best receivers of all time. I don't see how a person could say that at this time, although he does seem to be getting better the longer he is in the league.

I am looking for objective discussion about where he ranks as a Cowboys receiver, all time. Personally I can think of several players who are arguably better than him which would likely include Michael Irvin, Drew Pearson and Bullet Bob Hayes. I am sure there are several others that we could throw in there as well. Thoughts?

Who are you?

Who cares what you think?

 

[Section446]

Who are you?

Who cares what you think?

Who cares what any of us think? Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

 

[TTexasTT]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Is that what you think?
Who cares what you think?