Dez may hold out multiple games-Tom Condon

[AzorAhai]

you say you want a SB , even if it caused a losing team later on, but then say glad they didnt pay murray and glad they franchised dez. lol
They should have kept murray and dez , signed both, and then they could have had a SB this year !!
They already blew that chance.
People say they want a SB now for witten and romo and themselves lol , but yet worry about long term effects of keeping star players!
you are wanting to have your cake and eat it too, same for cowboys FO.

Truth is IMO is when they let murray walk and franchised dez , that derailed any SB this year and maybe next year too.

Yeah its always smart to disregard next year and any future players you want to sign. If you have credit cards you should consider taking a pair of scissors to them if this is your thinking.

 

[DandyDon52]

Dez and Murray, and Romo last year were a team, if you stopped dez murray would beat you, if you stopped murray dez would beat you.
If yoiu culd stop both of those then Romo beats you using supporting cast.
And they had a good supporting cast.

Had they kept murray , and with a better defense cowboys would have probably gone to SB this season.

Now they let murray walk , and have pissed off and de-motivated Dez with all this Franchise stuff, and they did not get a good replacement for murray.

I think they messed up, just my opinion, and they went from sure thing to be SB contender to just another playoff team that may or may not go past Div round.
Without a good run game they may struggle to even make the playoffs. but at this point no one knows how that will be, good or bad.

 

[DandyDon52]

Yeah its always smart to disregard next year and any future players you want to sign. If you have credit cards you should consider taking a pair of scissors to them if this is your thinking.

well you have to know when to go all in , I think this would have been a time to do just that.
The FO now is trying to build slowly and cheaply and still win at same time.
Every team has a window and if they dont jump on it it can quickly disappear.

When romo goes this teams SB chances fade drastically no matter who else they have signed.
Letting Murray go was a mistake due to the timing, not because he was great player.
They had a window for 2015 and now I think that window closed.
They had the offense , just needed some defensive help, and they got that but lost a wheel on the offense
Now dez may hold out and miss some games, williams just got hurt, dmc and williams not healthy , Ro coming off knee issues
and Run game is just not going to be the same. that changes everything.
I thnik it would have been worth it to sign murray and dez and go for the SB this year.
If they had and they had won the SB would that have been worth it? maybe even 2 in a row, would that make it worth It?
I think it would have been worth it.

That is all speculation, and now they are trying to have their cake and eat it too, and I dont think this will work, it might but not likely.

 

[AzorAhai]

well you have to know when to go all in , I think this would have been a time to do just that.
The FO now is trying to build slowly and cheaply and still win at same time.
Every team has a window and if they dont jump on it it can quickly disappear.

When romo goes this teams SB chances fade drastically no matter who else they have signed.
Letting Murray go was a mistake due to the timing, not because he was great player.
They had a window for 2015 and now I think that window closed.
They had the offense , just needed some defensive help, and they got that but lost a wheel on the offense
Now dez may hold out and miss some games, williams just got hurt, dmc and williams not healthy , Ro coming off knee issues
and Run game is just not going to be the same. that changes everything.
I thnik it would have been worth it to sign murray and dez and go for the SB this year.
If they had and they had won the SB would that have been worth it? maybe even 2 in a row, would that make it worth It?
I think it would have been worth it.

That is all speculation, and now they are trying to have their cake and eat it too, and I dont think this will work, it might but not likely.

The Cowboys are one of the youngest teams in the league. Football is not a "go all in" sport. Signing Murray to a stupid contract not only doesn't guarantee jack, it costs the team Hardy. Signing Dez to some stupid 17/yr deal probably costs the team one of Frederick, Martin or Collins. That sounds smart to me. Not to mention one bad hit on Romo and this "go all in" strategy not only is ineffective this season, but hurts its ability to compete in future years. The team was fiscally irresponsible for years, and now that its changed, they're cheap? It's not the team that "wants its cake and to eat it too".

 

[DandyDon52]

You're probably right. This is just how it works. It doesn't surprise me at all that a majority of fans continue to side with teams on this issue, though, especially in case like Dez's. We're talking about a guy threatening to miss regular season games over three or four more million dollars when the team is offering 12 or 13. In my mind, if Dez wanted to win and win now, he'd be satisfied with more money than most people ever dream of (including a vast majority of NFL players) and be in camp getting ready for the season instead of threatening not to be there when the season starts.

I don't think Dez will miss games either, but threatening to do so gets him nothing and certainly doesn't make the team any better. How does this make Condon a "good agent?"

How much money does it take to be secure, anyway?

LOL you dont know what dallas is offereing or what dez is asking !
no one does.
there are 4 things that I can think of
1. length of contract..... cowboys I think want a long one like 10 years, but dez may want shorter one
2.overall amount and avg pay per year , mainly the early years.
3. how much is guaranteed ? .... this is a big issue and important to players
4.other things, like with dez , if the cowboys are going to give him 100mil + contract, they want him supervised to protect their investment.
Dez does not want supervision in the contract.
Contracts can be tricky, front loaded , backloaded, deceptive etc. That is why players get agents

It is not as simple as jerry saying hey dez i will give you 16 mil a year for 5 years, that sound ok to you? DEz says sure jerry where do I sign?

I would think guaranteed $ is one of the bigger issues than how much per year, and then the supervisory issues, but really we dont know
What either party wants , all we hear is this and that, just pieces taken out of context, and even those may be wrong.

So Judge dez or cowboys if you want, but I dont know enough of the true facts to decide who is wrong or right.

 

[DandyDon52]

The Cowboys are one of the youngest teams in the league. Football is not a "go all in" sport. Signing1. Murray to a stupid contract not only doesn't guarantee jack,2. it costs the team Hardy. 3.Signing Dez to some stupid 17/yr deal probably costs the team one of Frederick, Martin or Collins. That sounds smart to me. Not to mention one bad hit on Romo and this "go all in" strategy not only is ineffective this season, but hurts its ability to compete in future years. The team was fiscally irresponsible for years, and now that its changed, they're cheap? It's not the team that "wants its cake and to eat it too".

1. Matter of opinion on that, and it guarantees more than what we have now in RB,s they had a proven formula, and Garrett, Romo, Dez, witten, and others all wanted murray back and thought he was worth the money, but I guess you know more than them?

2.It would not, most of hardys salary for this year is on next years cap, and no way to know if he will sign with us next year .
Even with not signing murray or dez they may not be able to afford hardy in 2016.

3. Had they been smart they would have got the deal done last year, it fell thru over supervisory issues not money.
Then they could have franchised murray.
Now you say the contract is stupid and say 17 mil a year, but you have not seen or read the contract ! lol are you psychic ??
or just believe anything you read .
No one knows what is being offered or for how much, or what they dont agree on.
So if you havent seen the contract how can you say it is stupid ??

 

[Doomsay]

The asinine part is that he wants everybody to just forget all of the off-field issues that he has had and all of the things the Cowboys did to help keep him out of trouble.

Good point!

 

[AzorAhai]

1. Matter of opinion on that, and it guarantees more than what we have now in RB,s they had a proven formula, and Garrett, Romo, Dez, witten, and others all wanted murray back and thought he was worth the money, but I guess you know more than them?

2.It would not, most of hardys salary for this year is on next years cap, and no way to know if he will sign with us next year .
Even with not signing murray or dez they may not be able to afford hardy in 2016.

3. Had they been smart they would have got the deal done last year, it fell thru over supervisory issues not money.
Then they could have franchised murray.
Now you say the contract is stupid and say 17 mil a year, but you have not seen or read the contract ! lol are you psychic ??
or just believe anything you read .
No one knows what is being offered or for how much, or what they dont agree on.
So if you havent seen the contract how can you say it is stupid ??

1. It guarantees Hardy isn't on the team. So you have an aging, injury prone RB instead of a young stud pass rusher. I'll take Hardy 10 times over.

2. Hardy's cap hit is not next year. Get your facts straight. They need enough space to absorb every game day bonus he gets. The Cowboys also will have between 30-40m in cap space next year. They can sign, or re-sign anyone they damn well please.

3. You accuse me of not knowing what they are offering now, but how do you know what was being offered last year? By what was being reported? Yeah same as everyone else. Or did you "see and read" the offer from last year?

He's wanting 17m/yr and you're blaming the team for him not being signed which is ridiculous. I'm not calling the contract stupid because there isn't one. I'm calling it stupid for anyone to criticize the team for him not being signed when he wants a stupid contract.

Murray was never going to get the tag. Never! If you think that was even an option, this conversation is moot.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Garrett, Romo, Dez, witten, and others all wanted murray back and thought he was worth the money

We all wanted Murray back. But not at $8M. Even the stars you mentioned knew he wasn't worth that. The only person who thought he was worth that is Chip Kelly.

 

[Nightman]

We all wanted Murray back. But not at $8M. Even the stars you mentioned knew he wasn't worth that. The only person who thought he was worth that is Chip Kelly.

not the only people

 

[5Stars]

1. Matter of opinion on that, and it guarantees more than what we have now in RB,s they had a proven formula, and Garrett, Romo, Dez, witten, and others all wanted murray back and thought he was worth the money, but I guess you know more than them?

2.It would not, most of hardys salary for this year is on next years cap, and no way to know if he will sign with us next year .
Even with not signing murray or dez they may not be able to afford hardy in 2016.

3. Had they been smart they would have got the deal done last year, it fell thru over supervisory issues not money.
Then they could have franchised murray.
Now you say the contract is stupid and say 17 mil a year, but you have not seen or read the contract ! lol are you psychic ??
or just believe anything you read .
No one knows what is being offered or for how much, or what they dont agree on.
So if you havent seen the contract how can you say it is stupid ??

Well, Garrett, Romo, Dez and Witten are not the one's that would have to pay Murray. There are other team needs than paying some player that others wanted just because...that was what the problem has been for the last 20 or so years. That has to stop and it looks like it has. No player, money wise, is better than the team.

 

[big dog cowboy]

not the only people

For example?

 

[Nightman]

For example?

me

 

[AsthmaField]

Paying Murray $8M per is how old Jerry would have done it. The new Cowboys don't throw big money at aging RB's and is frugal with their salary cap dollars.

That is what everyone has been screaming for. Now suddenly fans no longer want smart moves...

 

[Nightman]

Paying Murray $8M per is how old Jerry would have done it. The new Cowboys don't throw big money at aging RB's and is frugal with their salary cap dollars.

That is what everyone has been screaming for. Now suddenly fans no longer want smart moves...

aging RBs?

it is basically a 3 year deal

 

[AzorAhai]

aging RBs?

it is basically a 3 year deal

RBs age in dog years. Ray Rice is 28 and he's been done for 2 years. MJD seems to be ancient, but is only 30 and was basically done at 27. Add in 400+ touches and the injury history and even a 3 year deal could easily backfire.

 

[Nightman]

RBs age in dog years. Ray Rice is 28 and he's been done for 2 years. MJD seems to be ancient, but is only 30 and was basically done at 27. Add in 400+ touches and the injury history and even a 3 year deal could easily backfire.

Forte, Peterson, Lynch, Foster, Gore, McCoy, Charles and Forsett would argue that

 

[VACowboy]

LOL you dont know what dallas is offereing or what dez is asking !
no one does.
there are 4 things that I can think of
1. length of contract..... cowboys I think want a long one like 10 years, but dez may want shorter one
2.overall amount and avg pay per year , mainly the early years.
3. how much is guaranteed ? .... this is a big issue and important to players
4.other things, like with dez , if the cowboys are going to give him 100mil + contract, they want him supervised to protect their investment.
Dez does not want supervision in the contract.
Contracts can be tricky, front loaded , backloaded, deceptive etc. That is why players get agents

It is not as simple as jerry saying hey dez i will give you 16 mil a year for 5 years, that sound ok to you? DEz says sure jerry where do I sign?

I would think guaranteed $ is one of the bigger issues than how much per year, and then the supervisory issues, but really we dont know
What either party wants , all we hear is this and that, just pieces taken out of context, and even those may be wrong.

So Judge dez or cowboys if you want, but I dont know enough of the true facts to decide who is wrong or right.

I think it's safe to assume Dallas is offering Dez a contract at least as rich as any WR not named Calvin Johnson, and probably a little more, so $12 mil a year, minimum. Mike Wallace's contract included $27 mil guaranteed. I don't think the Cowboys would offer anything under that. ESPN reported that Dez wants $17 mil a year, but I think we can all probably agree he doesn't expect that. So, no, I don't KNOW anything for certain, but I can make enough of an educated guess to offer an opinion on a message board. If all anyone around here talked about was what they knew, the board would get pretty quiet. We're entering the really off part of the offseason. We gotta talk about something.

My real issue in all of this is that I can't recall a player ever threatening to hold out of regular season games a month before the contract deadline is up. It absolutely blows my mind when athletes take their cases to the media and whine about "security." Give me a break. If Dez signs his tender, he will make more money in 2015 than an Army PFC with six years of experience will in 50 years, and soldiers in our armed forces have a hell of a lot less "security" than a WR in the NFL. Just a little perspective.

 

[AzorAhai]

Forte, Peterson, Lynch, Foster, Gore, McCoy, Charles and Forsett would argue that

Forte has gone downhill. His production from a strict running stand point is far from elite and rather average. No one knows what Peterson will do. His last season was far from dominant. Mccoy is 26, but averaged an average 4.2 ypc. Forsett didn't get elite money. Gore didn't either and averaged 4.3 ypc. Foster has already shown to be injury prone, and the Texans were rumored to be interested in a replacement for him in the near future.

You can deny it or think Murray may buck the trend, but the numbers throughout history show only the elitist of the elite RBs stay productive past 30. Most are done by 30, and decline rapidly from 26-27 on. Add in the 400+ touches in a season history, an injury history and a large contract and its more than enough for me to be glad he's somewhere else. I'm glad he got paid, but I'm more glad it was by someone else.

 

[DandyDon52]

1. It guarantees Hardy isn't on the team. So you have an aging, injury prone RB instead of a young stud pass rusher. I'll take Hardy 10 times over.

2. Hardy's cap hit is not next year. Get your facts straight. They need enough space to absorb every game day bonus he gets. The Cowboys also will have between 30-40m in cap space next year. They can sign, or re-sign anyone they damn well please.

3. You accuse me of not knowing what they are offering now, but how do you know what was being offered last year? By what was being reported? Yeah same as everyone else. Or did you "see and read" the offer from last year?

He's wanting 17m/yr and you're blaming the team for him not being signed which is ridiculous. I'm not calling the contract stupid because there isn't one. I'm calling it stupid for anyone to criticize the team for him not being signed when he wants a stupid contract.

Murray was never going to get the tag. Never! If you think that was even an option, this conversation is moot.

ok you were right on #2 and #3