Did anyone catch T-New on the Michael Irvin Show today?

[skinsscalper]

I'll give you Sanders, but again, he's a once in the history of football type of player. Again, it's like knocking on Ware because he's not made the same kind of impact that Lawrence Taylor did. Who has?

And on Bailey, it's not until the last couple of years that he's really turned into a a turnover machine. His INT totals his first five years were 18 .. again, compared to Newman's 16. Rod Woodson had 16 through his first 5 years.

I'm not quite sure what people expect. Nobody in the history of football has ever put up a string of consistent 5+ INT seasons. Even the elite, HOF games typically get 3 or 4 a year and then occasionally break out a with 8 INT season here or there.

Again I stand corrected. It's a misconception that is shared by many (myself obviously included).

 

[theebs]

You have to be a little concerned with a guy that suddenly "turns it on" in a contract year and wonder why in the hell he didn't play that well to begin with. Also, once he gets paid, does he slip back into being an above average player, or worse declining (ala Roy Williams)?

I love TNew and would be stoked when/if it's announced that he has been re-signed. But, if he all of a sudden becomes all-world (at 30 years old) and demands a long term high priced deal, you have to look at that very closely and determine what exactly he is worth. Is he worth jeopardizing signing Ware? Or hampering the ability to improve the team in other areas (WR, S, RB)?

good grief.

Newman's best friend on the team and mentor was a hard working, team first class guy in Aaron Glenn. He has been shipped off and so were other hard working low key guys in reeves and jones.

Newman is the first pick of this new era. He is a leader, a class act and the elder statesmen of this group. He has sat back and watched everyone get paid.

Now we are seeing in the past 12 months ferguson and glenn, team leading high character hard working guys be replaced by Tank Johnson and pacman jones, the two biggest villains in the league.

If guys like newman didnt complain I would be worried.

 

[Vintage]

good grief.

Newman's best friend on the team and mentor was a hard working, team first class guy in Aaron Glenn. He has been shipped off and so were other hard working low key guys in reeves and jones.

Newman is the first pick of this new era. He is a leader, a class act and the elder statesmen of this group. He has sat back and watched everyone get paid.

Now we are seeing in the past 12 months ferguson and glenn, team leading high character hard working guys be replaced by Tank Johnson and pacman jones, the two biggest villains in the league.

If guys like newman didnt complain I would be worried.

Ratliff's emergence made Ferguson expendable. Ratliff is a hard worker.

Aaron Glenn barely played for Jax, and that decision was made bec. we gave Reeves a chance. He failed, so we let him go. But the decision to part ways of 'hard worker' Glenn was made to allow 'hard worker' Reeves take a shot.

 

[skinsscalper]

You hurt my feelings... :cry2:



I never said Newman was as good as those guys. You talked about players who tank after they get big money, and I gave you some examples of players who didn't. I used big names because they were the first that came to mind, but if it helps you understand, substitute Andre Gurode or Bigg for those guys.

The point is that not all players quit or drop off just because they sign a big extension. Get it now?





I never said anything about favoring Newman over Ware. At all. Where are you getting this stuff?



Wow, such hostility. I'm devastated.

I referenced your post in every rebuttal. That's where I get this stuff.

I know not every player drops off after getting paid. Just pointing out the fact that it does happen.

You're 100% correct. There's FAR too much hostility in the tone of my post. In referencing stupidity, I've done a fine job of flexing my own. Probably much too little too late, but I do (sincerely) extend an apology.

My bad. I should have used a more effective and respectful debate tactic. Sometimes, admittedly, cynicism and an attempt (though many times poor) at smart-***ed whit gets the best of me. I do truly apologize, CL.

 

[theebs]

Ratliff's emergence made Ferguson expendable. Ratliff is a hard worker.

Aaron Glenn barely played for Jax, and that decision was made bec. we gave Reeves a chance. He failed, so we let him go. But the decision to part ways of 'hard worker' Glenn was made to allow 'hard worker' Reeves take a shot.

I am not talking about there play. I am talking about what newman was saying today. the locker room. the practices. the chemistry. they are just as important.

Glenn's skills were eroded. Reeves and jones skill were lackluster. they did contribute to this team though. You can never have enough high character guys who work hard and have one goal in mind.

there is a reason the cowboys of the 90s started to erode when they put guys like deion sanders on the team and annoited him the savior of all their previous and future accomplishments.

take too many of these types away and add too many of the pacman type and you have a problem.

 

[Vintage]

I am not talking about there play. I am talking about what newman was saying today. the locker room. the practices. the chemistry. they are just as important.

Glenn's skills were eroded. Reeves and jones skill were lackluster. they did contribute to this team though. You can never have enough high character guys who work hard and have one goal in mind.

there is a reason the cowboys of the 90s started to arode when they put guys like deion sanders on the team and annoited him the savior of all their previous and future accomplishments.

take too many of these types away and add too many of the pacman type and you have a problem.

What should we have done about Reeves then? Pay him 20M to keep him because he is a "good character" type?

He was let go because he was getting too much pay for a ****ty performance. Seems smart to me, to let him go.

And oh noes....we let Reeves go....

So, he was the only hard worker then? Or only good character guy?

So we've gambled on two; Jones and Johnson.

Methinks we have plenty of good character guys.

And methinks the draft will yield some more.

Reeves and Nate Jones aren't irreplaceable...

 

[theebs]

What should we have done about Reeves then? Pay him 20M to keep him because he is a "good character" type?

He was let go because he was getting too much pay for a ****ty performance. Seems smart to me, to let him go.

And oh noes....we let Reeves go....

So, he was the only hard worker then? Or only good character guy?

So we've gambled on two; Jones and Johnson.

Methinks we have plenty of good character guys.

And methinks the draft will yield some more.

Reeves and Nate Jones aren't irreplaceable...

Your misunderstanding me. I clearly said glenn reeves and jones were lacking skills. I didnt want them back and didnt expect them to be back.

What I am saying is bring in young corners this weekend that fit that mold. Like a cason. High character, talented hard working kids with team goals being their passion.

It requires patience. Jerry has none. Its his flaw.

with 8 picks in this draft there is no need to put a huge risk in the locker-room like pacman, not to mention giving up two picks for him.

 

[Vintage]

Your misunderstanding me. I clearly said glenn reeves and jones were lacking skills. I didnt want them back and didnt expect them to be back.

What I am saying is bring in young corners this weekend that fit that mold. Like a cason. High character, talented hard working kids with team goals being their passion.

It requires patience. Jerry has none. Its his flaw.

with 8 picks in this draft there is no need to put a huge risk in the locker-room like pacman, not to mention giving up two picks for him.

So you don't think we'll do that this weekend?

I don't get why you are so worried. We added our 2nd "bad character" guy...

So.....that means the other 51 must be pretty good.

Somehow, I think we'll be ok.

And I suspect we'll add some more high character, hard working types in the draft.

You seem worried one individual is going to bring down this team. If Pacman can, then hell, this team is mentally weak and we deserve to go down anyway....

Jerry found value in trading for a CB (who despite his problems) is very talented and has return capabilities.... he has gotten insurance via the trade in the form of draft picks.... and he has gotten insurance in the form of no guaranteed money in the new contract....

Seems like he hedged his bets solidly.

 

[theebs]

So you don't think we'll do that this weekend?

I don't get why you are so worried. We added our 2nd "bad character" guy...

So.....that means the other 51 must be pretty good.

Somehow, I think we'll be ok.

And I suspect we'll add some more high character, hard working types in the draft.

You seem worried one individual is going to bring down this team. If Pacman can, then hell, this team is mentally weak and we deserve to go down anyway....

Jerry found value in trading for a CB (who despite his problems) is very talented and has return capabilities.... he has gotten insurance via the trade in the form of draft picks.... and he has gotten insurance in the form of no guaranteed money in the new contract....

Seems like he hedged his bets solidly.

I dont know what we will do this weekend nor does anyone else. I fear Jerry doing what he did in the past and ignoring red flags on players thinking the cowboys can cure the problems that many of these young players have.

If he pulls good guys and has a solid draft I will be happy as can be and pacman will just have to make his own way. If we dont get a corner pacman will be put in a position to be given stuff and i dont like that at all.

 

[Vintage]

I dont know what we will do this weekend nor does anyone else. I fear Jerry doing what he did in the past and ignoring red flags on players thinking the cowboys can cure the problems that many of these young players have.

If he pulls good guys and has a solid draft I will be happy as can be and pacman will just have to make his own way. If we dont get a corner pacman will be put in a position to be given stuff and i dont like that at all.

Did we take red flag guys last year?

No.

But you should probably go ahead and get your tinfoil hat ready, just in case. Make sure to upload the pictures, please.

 

[theebs]

Did we take red flag guys last year?

No.

But you should probably go ahead and get your tinfoil hat ready, just in case. Make sure to upload the pictures, please.

what?

This is Jerry's first draft without the structure Parcells put in place. Last year doesnt have anything to do with this.

So are you just looking for an argument for the sake of arguing or do you assume there is no risk in having pacman on this team at this juncture?

 

[Vintage]

what?

This is Jerry's first draft without the structure Parcells put in place. Last year doesnt have anything to do with this.

So are you just looking for an argument for the sake of arguing or do you assume there is no risk in having pacman on this team at this juncture?

Last year's draft.... Parcells was gone.

Jerry was free to run the asylum. Nothing happened.

This offseason, we've stayed relatively quiet. And we brought in a high quality, hard working, Zach Thomas.

And we re-signed a high character guy in Flozell.

Sorry. I don't see the place falling apart because we took a calculated risk (and hedged our bets, nonetheless) on Pacman.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I referenced your post in every rebuttal. That's where I get this stuff.

I know not every player drops off after getting paid. Just pointing out the fact that it does happen.

You're 100% correct. There's FAR too much hostility in the tone of my post. In referencing stupidity, I've done a fine job of flexing my own. Probably much too little too late, but I do (sincerely) extend an apology.

My bad. I should have used a more effective and respectful debate tactic. Sometimes, admittedly, cynicism and an attempt (though many times poor) at smart-***ed whit gets the best of me. I do truly apologize, CL.

No worries, my man. Here's to kicking the crap out of the Giants, Skins, and Eagles this weekend! :beer2:

 

[skinsscalper]

I am not talking about there play. I am talking about what newman was saying today. the locker room. the practices. the chemistry. they are just as important.

Glenn's skills were eroded. Reeves and jones skill were lackluster. they did contribute to this team though. You can never have enough high character guys who work hard and have one goal in mind.

there is a reason the cowboys of the 90s started to erode when they put guys like deion sanders on the team and annoited him the savior of all their previous and future accomplishments.

take too many of these types away and add too many of the pacman type and you have a problem.

I do agree with you theebs, to a certain extent. However, I think that the high character guys that we DO have in place is what makes Jerry think that these moves can work. By all accounts, Tank Johnson has been a model teammate. Void of any ego conflict or legal trouble since he stepped foot at Valley Ranch. I think that's a direct testament to the locker room character on this team. Ditto for Terrell Owens and his history, who had been a malcontent at every other stop in his career.

Do I like Adam Jones as a guy? Not so much. I didn't like Deion Sanders or T.O. either. What they brought to the Cowboys on the field (with the exception of Deion's final year and a half) is undeniable. Jerry Jones sees that type of potential return on the Adam Jones trade. Hell if Jones gives us HALF of what T.O. or Deion gave us it's worth the 4th and 6th. When it gets ugly is when/if Jones returns to his past behavior. Is it a gamble. Hell yeah, a big one. But, if it even remotely pays off then we just raped the Titans for their #6 overall investment.

 

[theebs]

Last year's draft.... Parcells was gone.

Jerry was free to run the asylum. Nothing happened.

This offseason, we've stayed relatively quiet. And we brought in a high quality, hard working, Zach Thomas.

And we re-signed a high character guy in Flozell.

Sorry. I don't see the place falling apart because we took a calculated risk (and hedged our bets, nonetheless) on Pacman.

ok man. We are not going to agree on this. You win. pacman equals championship and there is a less than zero chance Jerry over gambles this week.

 

[skinsscalper]

No worries, my man. Here's to kicking the crap out of the Giants, Skins, and Eagles this weekend! :beer2:

THAT I can drink to. Cheers!

 

[Vintage]

ok man. We are not going to agree on this. You win. pacman equals championship and there is a less than zero chance Jerry over gambles this week.

Good.

But just in case, get your tinfoil hat going.

Reynolds offers excellent aluminum tinfoil at a reasonable price.

 

[theebs]

Good.

But just in case, get your tinfoil hat going.

Reynolds offers excellent aluminum tinfoil at a reasonable price.

I dont even know what that means. So feel free to continue to repeat it.

 

[Dallas]

I dont even know what that means. So feel free to continue to repeat it.

it basically means you are a nut case.

wear a tinfoil hat and nobody can control your thoughts.

its like ummm interference




and yes - I wear one

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I am not talking about there play. I am talking about what newman was saying today. the locker room. the practices. the chemistry. they are just as important.

Glenn's skills were eroded. Reeves and jones skill were lackluster. they did contribute to this team though. You can never have enough high character guys who work hard and have one goal in mind.

there is a reason the cowboys of the 90s started to erode when they put guys like deion sanders on the team and annoited him the savior of all their previous and future accomplishments.

take too many of these types away and add too many of the pacman type and you have a problem.

So many people don't seem to get this, and I don't understand why. A team has social dynamics just like any other group of people... And this particular group of people has to spend a LOT of time together. Any kind of division or infighting doesn't help the cause, and it WILL show up on the field, even if not right away. And I think it's naive to think that the kind of arguing that we see on these boards doesn't happen in real life with the players on the team.

I mean, surely everyone has played against teams that had more big and fast guys, but they didn't win because they didn't play together as a team. Seems like most people here think this really is a computer game like Madden where all you do is plug in as many big size and speed numbers as possible, and hit play. It's not that simple when real people are involved.