Did you Zoners believe it was spotted wrong? *Merge*

[Temo]

To answer your question, they look for the first down marker and/or the hashmarks to determine the LoS.

 

[garyv]

Nope, I think the call was correct because they could'nt change anything because they had no clue where his other elbow/arm was located and it might have already hit the turf. When it's like this they simply will lok at it as inconclusive.

 

[superpunk]

Pretty sure those pictures show that he had the first down.

Tip of the ball is (a) obscured and (b) probably shy of the tip of the white (first down marker is slightly beyond the tip). Is it close? Sure. Closer than they spotted it. But there's no way to say it went beyond.

Plus, there's no way to know where his left elbow is. It looks like it could be down first.

It would have been nice if the referee had explained why he ruled the way he did. It could have just been that they ruled his forward progress stopped before he slid down his teammates. That's my guess. But the ref didn't say.

 

[Temo]

Pretty sure those pictures show that he had the first down.

That's what I thought at first too, but look at where they placed the first down marker in the first shot (inches in front of the emblem) and where the nose of the football is (within the emblem) when McNabb's elbow is down.

 

[Boyzmamacita]

Why did the mods merge two threads on unrelated topics? One is about the spot of the ball. The other is about a foot behind the line of scrimmage (or not).

 

[TD-33]

Why would you post that as a first reply to a thread? Don't be a .

And to the OP, no his right foot was still behind.

Reminds me of that TD Romo threw to Curtis @ NYG a few years back.

Actually I should work on my reading comprehension, the question was about the pass and I thought it was about the 4th & 1 spot. :
No, he was behind the line shown on-screen for the pass.

 

[AmericasTeam31]

That's what I thought at first too, but look at where they placed the first down marker in the first shot (inches in front of the emblem) and where the nose of the football is (within the emblem) when McNabb's elbow is down.

You are correct sir! And the last time I checked it's the other Pennsylvania team that gets first downs without getting to the marker, not this one!

 

[LandryFan]

I may be repeating what others in this thread are saying, but I KNOW McNabb came up short. In the replay, the broadcasters kept talking about using the logo on the field for marking the ball. One replay clearly showed the first down stick being forward of the entire "beak", the broadcasters kept referring to. Another replay clearly showed McNabb's elbow (with the ball) being down with the nose of the ball clearly inside of the logo (the "beak" specifically). If you put the two replays together, there is indisputable evidence that McNabb was short. Now the ball was marked short of the spot where the ball was actually down, but a correct mark still would not have netted the first down.

 

[theogt]

Tip of the ball is (a) obscured and (b) probably shy of the tip of the white (first down marker is slightly beyond the tip). Is it close? Sure. Closer than they spotted it. But there's no way to say it went beyond.

Plus, there's no way to know where his left elbow is. It looks like it could be down first.

It would have been nice if the referee had explained why he ruled the way he did. It could have just been that they ruled his forward progress stopped before he slid down his teammates. That's my guess. But the ref didn't say.

Yeah, I take it back. Boy that's a close call. He might be an inch short.

http://img691.*************/img691/8867/spot2.jpg

 

[AmericasTeam31]

Yeah, I take it back. Boy that's a close call. He might be an inch short.

http://img691.*************/img691/8867/spot2.jpg

I like what you did there, but i don't think that it works in this case, because you can't take into account the angle of the T.V. camera...

 

[JBond]

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports..._In_short__a_familiar_problem_for_Eagles.html

For the better part of last season, third-and-short was a hurdle the Eagles couldn't seem to get over. For a while, it appeared it would be their undoing.
In their first 11 games last season, the Eagles converted just eight of 20 third-and-one situations. Not surprisingly, the Eagles won just five of those 11 games.

But then they got their short-yardage act together, converted six of eight third-and-ones in their final five regular-season games and five of six in the postseason and made it all the way to the NFC Championship Game.

In their first seven games this season, they were an impressive 12-for-15 on third downs of 2 yards or less, including 7-for-8 on third-and-1.

But last night, they came up short on three separate third-and-1s and a game-turning fourth-and-1 that gave the Cowboys a short field they used to set up their game-winning touchdown in a tough 20-16 loss.

With the game tied early in the fourth quarter, running back LeSean McCoy was stopped for no gain on a third-and-1 at the Dallas 45-yard line.

Rather than punt the ball away, coach Andy Reid decided to go for it on fourth-and-1. Donovan McNabb ran a quarterback sneak that appeared to get the first down.

But referee Walt Coleman's crew spotted the ball short of the first-down marker.

Reid challenged the spot, just as he did on a failed third-and-2 in the third quarter. But the spot was not changed. Five plays later, Cowboys wide receiver Miles Austin beat cornerback Sheldon Brown on a double move and caught a 49-yard touchdown pass from Tony Romo to put the Cowboys in front for good.

The spot on McNabb's failed fourth-and-1 seemed to be incorrect, but Reid refused to criticize the officials after the game.

"I can't go into the challenges," he said. "I can't do that unless you're going to pay [the fines] for them. They called them the way they called them."

McNabb felt he clearly had picked the first down on the quarterback sneak.

"I did," McNabb said. "I felt like half of my body was past the marker, which I'd seen. I landed on top of one of our guys and just slid and kept on moving.

"We thought we had a first down, but unfortunately, i guess, twice we didn't."

The Eagles, who converted six of 11 third-down opportunities in last week's win over the Giants, were just 4-for-12 against the Cowboys. Failed on a third-and-1 in the first quarter when McNabb, who completed just 16 of 30 passes and threw two interceptions, was high with a short toss to tight end Alex Smith.

Had a third-and-2 at their own 41 in the third quarter. McNabb completed a pass to McCoy, but the ball was spotted short of the first-down mark. Reid challenged that spot as well, but the ruling was upheld.

"To be at home and have those kind of calls go against you [is disappointing]," said wide receiver DeSean Jackson.

The failed challenges left the Eagles without any timeouts. The Eagles managed to get within four points on a 52-yard field goal by David Akers with 4:33 left in the game. But the Cowboys picked up a pair of first downs on their next possession, which was enough to let them run the clock out.

The fix was in. But I don't care.

We were due some good karma.

 

[Boyzmamacita]

Actually I should work on my reading comprehension, the question was about the pass and I thought it was about the 4th & 1 spot. :
No, he was behind the line shown on-screen for the pass.

Your reading comprehension is fine, l2obert. The mods merged two unrelated threads.

 

[fanfromvirginia]

The annoucers made a good point about McChunky's left arm/elbow not being visible. So to say it should had been spotted at the eagle's beak was not correct because of the unknown.

Not enough conclusive evidence for an overturn.

I agree. They were right not to overturn it and, for all I know, the ref got the spot right the first time because he saw McN's other elbow or knee down before he got the first down.

And I'm not one to complain about calls. Most of the whinging about calls on this site are pretty biased. But I think the refs got this one right.

 

[Danny White]

First of all, refs almost never overturn "spot of the ball" challenges, and a coach needs to understand that before throwing the flag.

That's what made the overturn of the Witten first down in the botched-snap Seattle playoff game so galling... because I think that's one of only a handful of times I've ever seen that overturned.

Anyway, while the spot was a few inches off, McNabb was still short of the point of the logo where the first down marker was when they measured.

I don't know where the Eagles fans are getting this nonsense about having it by a yard or more, that's pure nonsense.

 

[LandryFan]

It was clearly a first down. Now if Romo was the QB stretching for it most here would say he got robbed. If McNabb is not touching the field and he is not touching the ground than the ball should have been marked where he scooted an extra foot. Bad call but I like the results.

At least we can say we are even for the non-call on Roy in the end zone.

No, it was not. If you go back and watch where the first down stick was relative to the logo on the field, and then look at McNabb's elbow relative to the logo, it is very clear that he was short. Yes, the ball was marked a ffew inches short of where it should have been, but it was still clealy shor of the first down.

 

[theogt]

I like what you did there, but i don't think that it works in this case, because you can't take into account the angle of the T.V. camera...

I made the red lines as parallel as I could in order to account for the TV camera angle.