Didn't Eli win two super bowls?

[MikeB80]

That's why Emmit would never trade careers with Barry.

Yep.

An even more interesting take on all this to me is that the same people who always said Aikman was better than Favre or Young ( I believe he was) pointed to his super bowls. His playoff career is pretty much identical to Eli Manning's. Dallas has the one more ring obviously but the Cowboys defense killed the bills in sb 27, they shut down the niners offense in both championship games, the special teams made big plays.

Bernie Kosar made the pivotal play in the championship game in 93 with his throw to harper. The next week a dinged aikman was not right and emmitt carried the team to the win in the second half of the game.

You cant make a case for Troy Aikman being a hall of famer without realizing it is the EXACT scenario as Eli Manning and it is why he will be a first ballot hall of famer. All those playoff wins and multiple championships.

 

[Runwildboys]

Yep.

An even more interesting take on all this to me is that the same people who always said Aikman was better than Favre or Young ( I believe he was) pointed to his super bowls. His playoff career is pretty much identical to Eli Manning's. Dallas has the one more ring obviously but the Cowboys defense killed the bills in sb 27, they shut down the niners offense in both championship games, the special teams made big plays.

Bernie Kosar made the pivotal play in the championship game in 93 with his throw to harper. The next week a dinged aikman was not right and emmitt carried the team to the win in the second half of the game.

You cant make a case for Troy Aikman being a hall of famer without realizing it is the EXACT scenario as Eli Manning and it is why he will be a first ballot hall of famer. All those playoff wins and multiple championships.

I think Aikman played against much better defenses to get there. I could be wrong, but I remember the defenses being a lot tougher back then.

 

[75boyz]

Can't really disagree with what your saying but just because nobody is playing great defense this year doesn't mean it can't be played "anymore". The guy saying that is a child playing video games in his mothers basement/. @Future

Yeah true, just been such a while since I seen a dominating dee I'm beginning to doubt they still exist.
As for the other...
Guess I'll just hafta take your word on that one bro.

Cheers

Go Cowboys

 

[RonnieT24]

I think Aikman played against much better defenses to get there. I could be wrong, but I remember the defenses being a lot tougher back then.

Aikman played against three of the best defenses in NFL history ... the Reggie White, Seth Joyner, Jerome Brown Eagles were an all time great level defense.. the Giants and Skins both were Super Bowl defenses. The hits that Troy took would have the entire defense on the other side suspended for the season.

 

[black label]

I just told you about the SB game.

The only reason I put reg ssn stats in there was because the previous post had them.

Dude literally threw it right to a New England receiver the play before the hail mary pass...and Asante Samuels dropped it.
Then the close your eyes heave to a WR surrounded by 3 defenders "clutch throw"

I do realize he got on a roll during those playoffs.

he was masterful in the playoffs dood lol

 

[Hadenough]

I'm quite sure dak could do the same, but how would we know?

Wrong! Dak doesn't have the consistency or accuracy. Eli was a beast once he got into the playoffs.

 

[aikemirv]

Of course he didn't! His defense did....

Just a gentle reminder to the DDS crowd.....

Critically speaking, the defense has been absolutely frightful. If it could just become middle of the pack, our fortunes would drastically change.

This defense is nearly last in every category, I can't see any qb being able to consistently overcome being let down knowing that everything is always 100% on their shoulders. There is virtually no help and especially no timely defensive stops.

I'm not sure nolan makes it through the season if the defense doesn't show some life.

Eli's defense got him they and then just fortunate circumstances (David Tyree and Samuel drop) got him one Super Bowl but he played well when it counted for their Super Bowl runs. You don't have to be stellar all the time but you have to play really well for a few games straight.

 

[RonnieT24]

Wrong! Dak doesn't have the consistency or accuracy. Eli was a beast once he got into the playoffs.

No he actually wasn't.. Look it up.. His numbers in the playoffs were very pedestrian. They were slightly better than his regular season but only because he stunk in the regular season for the most part.

 

[75boyz]

I just told you about the SB game.

The only reason I put reg ssn stats in there was because the previous post had them.

Dude literally threw it right to a New England receiver the play before the hail mary pass...and Asante Samuels dropped it.
Then the close your eyes heave to a WR surrounded by 3 defenders "clutch throw"

I do realize he got on a roll during those playoffs.

I'm still receiving counseling caused by each of those 2 Eli trophy teams and now the recent mention of his being a Hall of Famer made my doc prescribe additional psychiatric meds.
But yeah, I hear ya both.

Eli has 2 of the flukest rings in the history of pro ball and Dallas has yet to be able to conquer a divisional round playoff win.

Jerry had to have sold his soul for the '92-96 era.

There's no other explanation

Go Cowboys

 

[75boyz]

No he actually wasn't.. Look it up.. His numbers in the playoffs were very pedestrian. They were slightly better than his regular season but only because he stunk in the regular season for the most part.

I mean even big brother Peyton was the king of the regular season stats QB but whose playoff stats took a steep decline when comparing regular and post season.

Eli, well, I mean for a career he was like one game above .500. And he only missed a single game in 15 years so...
I just thought the great ones or Hall of Fame worthy ones should be more than a game above .500 for their career. 2 rings or not.
Probably just me expecting too much from the quarterback position again. I mean it's why they make the most money and touch every snap...
Yeah, it's probably just me. Team game, yeah that's it.

Go Cowboys

 

[tyke1doe]

Here's what you missed: It's not that you have to have a dominant D to win a super bowl, but you have to have a D that can get stops. You're completely misinterpreting the statement that D's win championships. What the statement really means is that you're not going to win it all w/o a D.

Take 2011, the year you yourself picked. Are you aware that the Giants D held every team they faced in the playoffs under 21 points? And that includes holding the 3rd ranked GB to 20, and the 2nd ranked Patriots to 17. D was huge in that playoff run.

D was huge in that playoff run. Those are the operative words.

But that defense was 29th in the league. That was only better than three other defenses.
Translation: a defense can up its game during the playoffs. And ... so ... can ... an ... offense.

Be that as it may, the statistics show that a team can have a better offense than defense and still win the Super Bowl.

We all pretty much knew going into the season that the Cowboys offense was going to be better than its defense. Yet, fans are trying to put the focus on the defense. In every game, the defense might have been not up to par, but it held the Rams to 20 points and we had a chance to win or tie the game at the end of regulation for Seattle. For a sorry defense, that's pretty good.

Our offense - being the stronger unit - needed to make the plays to win the game but couldn't. I'm not going to argue whose fault in was in terms of naming players. But the reality is that this team will built on offense to give Dak as many weapons as he could to be successful.

Again, the jury is still out. But we've had an opportunity in every game to win, and our strongest unit couldn't.

We know we're not going anywhere solely on our defense. But we can go somewhere with the talent we have on offense, if it plays like it's supposed to.

 

[75boyz]

D was huge in that playoff run. Those are the operative words.

But that defense was 29th in the league. That was only better than three other defenses.
Translation: a defense can up its game during the playoffs. And ... so ... can ... an ... offense.

Be that as it may, the statistics show that a team can have a better offense than defense and still win the Super Bowl.

We all pretty much knew going into the season that the Cowboys offense was going to be better than its defense. Yet, fans are trying to put the focus on the defense. In every game, the defense might have been not up to par, but it held the Rams to 20 points and we had a chance to win or tie the game at the end of regulation for Seattle. For a sorry defense, that's pretty good.

Our offense - being the stronger unit - needed to make the plays to win the game but couldn't. I'm not going to argue whose fault in was in terms of naming players. But the reality is that this team will built on offense to give Dak as many weapons as he could to be successful.

Again, the jury is still out. But we've had an opportunity in every game to win, and our strongest unit couldn't.

We know we're not going anywhere solely on our defense. But we can go somewhere with the talent we have on offense, if it plays like it's supposed to.

Just because everything you pointed out here is the truth and will disturb the #4 can do no wrong Family Mafia doesn't mean you have the freedom to express these truths on a public message board.
Now say you're sorry and re write something that's absolutely politically correct and blames losses on all other team components vice the starting QB and you will be forgiven.

Cue the exact same "it's a team game, running game, ol, Zeke, defense and coaching" excuse makers...

It's like clock work.

Go Cowboys

 

[tyke1doe]

Just because everything you pointed out here is the truth and will disturb the #4 can do no wrong Family Mafia doesn't mean you have the freedom to express these truths on a public message board.
Now say you're sorry and re write something that's absolutely politically correct and blames losses on all other team components vice the starting QB and you will be forgiven.

Cue the exact same "it's a team game, running game, ol, Zeke, defense and coaching" excuse makers...

It's like clock work.

Go Cowboys

Ize sahwee!

 

[nalam]

Defense doesn't win championships anymore, but the point that QBs don't win in a vacuum is still true.

Even in the recent super bowl, Kansas had all the offensive firepower but trailing and after their defense stopped opposing team only started gaining ( of course having a pat mahomes helped) ,it seems thta our D is alien to 3& outs and turnovers.

 

[75boyz]

D was huge in that playoff run. Those are the operative words.

But that defense was 29th in the league. That was only better than three other defenses.
Translation: a defense can up its game during the playoffs. And ... so ... can ... an ... offense.

Be that as it may, the statistics show that a team can have a better offense than defense and still win the Super Bowl.

We all pretty much knew going into the season that the Cowboys offense was going to be better than its defense. Yet, fans are trying to put the focus on the defense. In every game, the defense might have been not up to par, but it held the Rams to 20 points and we had a chance to win or tie the game at the end of regulation for Seattle. For a sorry defense, that's pretty good.

Our offense - being the stronger unit - needed to make the plays to win the game but couldn't. I'm not going to argue whose fault in was in terms of naming players. But the reality is that this team will built on offense to give Dak as many weapons as he could to be successful.

Again, the jury is still out. But we've had an opportunity in every game to win, and our strongest unit couldn't.

We know we're not going anywhere solely on our defense. But we can go somewhere with the talent we have on offense, if it plays like it's supposed to.

And for those hard core analytics guys and even those of us that aren't...
The 2011 regular season Giants actually won the division @ 9-7, went to the playoffs and beat the Goat and Hoodie a second time all the while scoring less points than they gave up during their regular season.
Don't think any other team has ever done it(But not 100% sure)

Yep gave up more than they scored during the regular season.

And won a Super Bowl

Makes perfect sense

Those Giant Super Bowls I tell ya.(roll my eyes, shake my head and pop my anxiety meds)

Go Cowboys

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Yeah, but he stepped up throughout most of his career, so it kinda balanced out.

Debatable at best. More chokes and early playoff exits that he would have liked.

 

[DFWJC]

Yep.

An even more interesting take on all this to me is that the same people who always said Aikman was better than Favre or Young ( I believe he was) pointed to his super bowls. His playoff career is pretty much identical to Eli Manning's. Dallas has the one more ring obviously but the Cowboys defense killed the bills in sb 27, they shut down the niners offense in both championship games, the special teams made big plays.

Bernie Kosar made the pivotal play in the championship game in 93 with his throw to harper. The next week a dinged aikman was not right and emmitt carried the team to the win in the second half of the game.

You cant make a case for Troy Aikman being a hall of famer without realizing it is the EXACT scenario as Eli Manning and it is why he will be a first ballot hall of famer. All those playoff wins and multiple championships.

Man, I usually agree with you on a lot of topics.

For sure not this one.

And Eli and Aikman's playoff records certainly on "pretty much identical".

I think Eli might be (not sure) the NFL's all-time leader in one-and-dones in the playoffs with 4. 4 out 6...1 and done.
He was truly god-awful 4 out of his 6 playoff seasons.

Then he has the two SB's. It's bizarre.
Either all or nothing.

Aikman started in 7 post-seasons and Dallas advanced in 5 of them. And 3 Super Bowls is 50% more than 2. It is a big difference.
His playoff QB rating was way than his regular-season's....which is really unusual.

 

[DFWJC]

No he actually wasn't.. Look it up.. His numbers in the playoffs were very pedestrian. They were slightly better than his regular season but only because he stunk in the regular season for the most part.

This.

He gets that unwarranted reputation from the 2 SB runs.

All the other years--and he was in the league 15 years---he was a truly awful playoff QB.


Other than the two SB runs (big "other than"), the Giants never won a single playoff game with Eli in his 15-year career.

 

[75boyz]

This.

He gets that unwarranted reputation from the 2 SB runs.

All the other years--and he was in the league 15 years---he was a truly awful playoff QB.


Other than the two SB runs (big "other than"), the Giants never won a single playoff game with Eli in his 15-year career.

You'll never get any argument from me.
Look at Eli's record as a starter from 2012 to 2018. Throw out the one crazy 2016 defensive free agent spending spree by his GM Reese.
I mean...
He never missed a game so its not like anyone else was ever taking every single offensive snap.
Regardless, and I do mean regardless of circumstances you gotta have a better record than that especially in the not so dominant NFC East.

His last name is Manning. 2 fluke rings.
Guess it ain't fair all the time after all.

Hall of Fame don't seem right. More a Jim Plunkett part II if you ask me, got his 2 rings too and he ain't in the Hall.

Go Cowboys

 

[Aviano90]

Aikman played against three of the best defenses in NFL history ... the Reggie White, Seth Joyner, Jerome Brown Eagles were an all time great level defense.. the Giants and Skins both were Super Bowl defenses. The hits that Troy took would have the entire defense on the other side suspended for the season.

Defenses could also take 2 steps and hit the QB after he released the ball and the turf has like concrete. Standing and delivering in the pocket took guts.