DMN Blog: Cowboys could make room for Matt Jones

[dbair1967]

And I know he seems to get a free pass around here while Jones gets thrown under the bus when the reality is Jones outperformed him.

you keep saying this and say you provide "facts"...well the "facts" are in the other thread for you to see Stash, and again, Jones didnt outperform Harper...in fact Harper's yds per catch numbers absolutely dwarf Jones', and the avg catches per season are basically equal...Harper also got better every yr he was in Dallas, and clearly Jones hasnt

then you have to fact in that Harper also made some huge, game altering plays in the postseason too

Harper was a bust when he left Dallas, but whikle he was here he was abslutely one of the most feared big play guys in the league, and the numbers support that. No team even remotely worries about Matt Jones

David

 

[Stash]

you keep saying this and say you provide "facts"...well the "facts" are in the other thread for you to see Stash, and again, Jones didnt outperform Harper...in fact Harper's yds per catch numbers absolutely dwarf Jones', and the avg catches per season are basically equal...Harper also got better every yr he was in Dallas, and clearly Jones hasnt

Jones did outperform Harper in carches and most importantly touchdowns. Despite still learning the wide receiver position and despite having less talented players around him.

then you have to fact in that Harper also made some huge, game altering plays in the postseason too

And what got Harper to the postseason? Playing on a team loaded with stars. That's what. He didn't 'carry' the Cowboys, which is what you seem to expect of Jones. Harper has about 4 career postseason TD's. Considering the number of postseason games he played in, that's not a lot. Jones already has 1 in the two postseason games he's played (check last year). You might give Harper a free pass based on one big play in San Francisco, but I look at his actual numbers.

Harper was a bust when he left Dallas, but whikle he was here he was abslutely one of the most feared big play guys in the league, and the numbers support that. No team even remotely worries about Matt Jones

Harper was a bust when he left Dallas, because he was the same one-trick pony that he always was. A guy who fit his role on a team of stars, when he didn't have those stars anymore, he wasn't a factor at all.

What receiver do they worry about in Jacksonville?

 

[Wrangler87]

I dont understand all the hate on this guy. It would neevr hurt to bring him in for a work out. Maybe Jax just wasnt place for him with the revolving door at QB until last year.

Jacksonville hasn't had a good qb since Brunell, and that was before Jones.

By the way, how many Jones would that give us....

 

[Stash]

Now you're comparing Matt Jones to TO and Randy Moss? You really are a funny guy.

TO played hurt in a Superbowl and he wasn't the one yakking on the field.

You use regular season stats to justify your argument that Matt Jones was better than Alvin Harper. You use one playoff game to compare Matt Jones to Patrick Crayton (Crayton is also better than Matt Jones, and that isn't saying much). Maybe it's you that needs to explain the 'rules', since you seem to be the only one playing by them.

Just using your same "BS" standards against you to illustrate how clearly ridiculous they truly are.

 

[Stash]

Honestly, I don't know enough about Jones to give a damn, but I don't understand why a non-Cowboy would attract so much attention ... and anger. You're also really underselling Harper's days in Dallas, basically insinuating that he was a product of the system or a beneficiary of the talent that surrounded him. If that's all it took, Kevin Williams should have had no trouble putting up similar numbers. Whoops.

If we sign Jones, I wish him all the best. But you needn't denigrate Harper in the process.

Thanks for the response.

And I apologize if it seems I'm knocking Harper, that's not my intenet.

My point was to shown that, despite the venom directed toward Jones and the questions on work ethic, he had put up better numbers than Harper did over the same three years of each man's career.

Harper was good at what he did, and he was a quality component of the Cowboys' offense. My real question is, given Dallas' current talent level, why Jones could not also be a quality component?

Seems a pretty ridiculous double-standard to think a guy who put up better numbers in a lesser offense with less starts couldn't, don't you think?

 

[Stash]

He got that while being forcefed the ball for 3 years on a team that was dying for playmakers.

Bzzzzttt. Those were last season's numbers when he was in Del Rio's doghouse and rarely played. In fact he was deactivated for 4 games and started zero.

If he couldnt get up when he was the projected number one target for a superbowl calibur team, why would he step up being our 4/5 WR and like 7/8th option?

That's part of the problem, he was never projected as the number one target. Despite leading the team in receiving for 2006, Jones did not start a single game for 2007. Does that make sense to you? Would you not start the guy who performed the best the prior year? I would.

And if was Jones, and that happened to me, I think I'd be a bit pissed off too.

P.S. can he run down kicks?

I don't now about coverage teams, but I saw a shot of him fielding punts in OTA's a few days ago.

 

[iceberg]

Thank you my friend!



And yes, bad news for the rest of ya, I have seen it!

And you thought ya couldn't shut me up before!



By the way, there are still seats available!

:grouphug:

what about that part where he was considered a bust? : )

 

[Stash]

what about that part where he was considered a bust? : )

Based on where he was drafted, I can see how some might say that.

He hasn't been what the Jaguars had hoped as of yet.

But, I go back to the comparison to Harper, Harper was taken 12th overall, Jones 21st.

Harper was already a receiver, Jones wasn't.

Jones' overall numbers over his first three years are better.

So for those who claim Jones is a bust, what does that make Harper?

There's a big difference between drafting a guy making a position change at 21 overall and getting that same guy 3 years later (at 25 years old) for a late round draft pick.

Jacksonville's mistake could be a plus for us.

 

[cowboyz]

Well, there is really no reason not to try Matt out. Say what you want about his past, but we cant really say any of our scrubs (with little to no experience) are any better at this point.

Sure you can look in silver and blue glasses, say what those guys could/might/would do, but really noone has a clue. At least Matt has done something in an NFL game, unlike the our current cast of scrubs.

And there is also that possiblity that he might turn the corner with all the athletic talent he has.......I mean if you think that someone like Miles can, I don't understand how you can possiblity say Matt can't....maybe you have a crystal ball. Just cause Miles is a current Cowboy doesn't mean he has anymore of a chance to turn that corner, maybe this thought exists cause you haven't seen enough of how much Miles (or insert name here) sucks.

Bring him in, if he sucks, cut him. Pretty simple really.

exactly

matt jones, miles austin, stanback who knows?
matt is actually the more accomplished.

if you can pick up matt jones on the cheap why not. but at least if you know dallas passes, then with jerry's connections and dave campos, then you'd expect they had good knowledge about the situation.

 

[iceberg]

Based on where he was drafted, I can see how some might say that.

He hasn't been what the Jaguars had hoped as of yet.

But, I go back to the comparison to Harper, Harper was taken 12th overall, Jones 21st.

Harper was already a receiver, Jones wasn't.

Jones' overall numbers over his first three years are better.

So for those who claim Jones is a bust, what does that make Harper?

There's a big difference between drafting a guy making a position change at 21 overall and getting that same guy 3 years later (at 25 years old) for a late round draft pick.

Jacksonville's mistake could be a plus for us.

sorry stash, i'm not gonna follow this domino effect of stat after stat. i don't agree the harper comparison is valid because you'd have to go back and compare systems and other threats at the time on the team. to me i see cherry picking numbers and making THAT number mean everything you need it to mean.

i admire your passion around jones, i just vastly disagree on the type of player he is and not gonna get into a number throwing contest with you cause i know you'll dismiss the bad ones and pump up whatever you can in jones favor.

it's what the captain of the fan club should do. : )

but not many others will.

 

[iceberg]

exactly

matt jones, miles austin, stanback who knows?
matt is actually the more accomplished.

if you can pick up matt jones on the cheap why not. but at least if you know dallas passes, then with jerry's connections and dave campos, then you'd expect they had good knowledge about the situation.

great. compare matt to 1 player who's not been able to play due to injury and then to austin, who just isn't gonna get a whole lot of playing time behind:

TO
witten
glenn
crayton
j jones
m barber

only so many balls to go around. if austin, stanback or hurd got the same snaps as jones you'd have a closer comparison maybe, but till then, it's senseless to compare a starting WR from another team and say he's better than our projects *stat wise*. maybe, but potential wise is how you gauge your projects and i'll keep what we have now.

and realize others will disagree. : )

 

[Stash]

exactly

matt jones, miles austin, stanback who knows?
matt is actually the more accomplished.

if you can pick up matt jones on the cheap why not. but at least if you know dallas passes, then with jerry's connections and dave campos, then you'd expect they had good knowledge about the situation.

And I actually wouldn't have a problem with that.

If they took a look and decided against it, while I would disaagree, I really couldn't complain.

But if they foolishly sit back and wait for him to be released, I would have a problem with that.

Because 1) it wouldn't be until late into traing camp, too late to leanr a new offense and 2) most importantly, Jones would never reach the Cowboys' waiver claim.

If you're interested publicly offer the Jaguars a draft choice. Make sure the public is made aware. That puts pressure on the Jags to either keep him or trade him. They would take too much heat if they held onto him for spite at that point.

A 6th round draft pick is nothing considering what this team has coming for 2009.

 

[Stash]

sorry stash, i'm not gonna follow this domino effect of stat after stat. i don't agree the harper comparison is valid because you'd have to go back and compare systems and other threats at the time on the team. to me i see cherry picking numbers and making THAT number mean everything you need it to mean.

You can do that if you choose, that would only make the case for Jones stronger.

i admire your passion around jones, i just vastly disagree on the type of player he is and not gonna get into a number throwing contest with you cause i know you'll dismiss the bad ones and pump up whatever you can in jones favor.

I'm not throwing any numbers away, I'm just pointing out that the guy can play. And that he's shown more despite people's criticisms, than the vast majority of receivers on this roster.

it's what the captain of the fan club should do. : )

but not many others will.

Would you expect any less of the 'Campaign Manager'?

 

[Stash]

great. compare matt to 1 player who's not been able to play due to injury and then to austin, who just isn't gonna get a whole lot of playing time behind:

TO
witten
glenn
crayton
j jones
m barber

only so many balls to go around. if austin, stanback or hurd got the same snaps as jones you'd have a closer comparison maybe, but till then, it's senseless to compare a starting WR from another team and say he's better than our projects *stat wise*. maybe, but potential wise is how you gauge your projects and i'll keep what we have now.

and realize others will disagree. : )

I sure will.

Firstly, how is Glenn even on that list?

I would rather go with what I know, than complete unknowns.

This receiver lineup has far too many question marks for my tastes.

And despite all the criticism, Matt Jones has produced in the NFL.

 

[iceberg]

I sure will.

Firstly, how is Glenn even on that list?

I would rather go with what I know, than complete unknowns.

This receiver lineup has far too many question marks for my tastes.

And despite all the criticism, Matt Jones has produced in the NFL.

glenn is on the list because you keep comparing him to austin and/or crayton even and then stanback when it helps and you go back 3 years. i'm trying to show weapons that kept these stats "low" for the players you choose to pit jones against.

jones plays for the jags and it's not like they're overflowing with playmakers.
if he was on the cowboys he'd have the same problem as austin, stanback and hurd have - too many playmakers in front of them to even give him the chance TO catch the ball.

you went back 3 years to compare for harper and then our other wr's, i go back also to show why those stats are not a fair comparison.

that's all. but you keep comparing them cause jones beat them but don't compare the situations they're in as well cause that won't help matt.

 

[Stash]

glenn is on the list because you keep comparing him to austin and/or crayton even and then stanback when it helps and you go back 3 years. i'm trying to show weapons that kept these stats "low" for the players you choose to pit jones against.

Glenn didn't even contribute last season, he took away nothing from anyone. And now he's a broken non-factor who's doing nothing buy holding this team back in pursuit of his own goals. Glenn doesn't care if he can actually play, the guy wants to get paid. His actions clearly bear that out. I think he should be history as soon as possible and not be holding this team's future hostage.

jones plays for the jags and it's not like they're overflowing with playmakers.
if he was on the cowboys he'd have the same problem as austin, stanback and hurd have - too many playmakers in front of them to even give him the chance TO catch the ball.

So that would be your reason for not attempting to improve the roster?

How do we know that he couldn't or wouldn't beat out Crayton for the #2 position? Jones' numbers over his first three season were better than Crayton's - by a lot. Why couldn't Jones be every bit the factor - if not more - than Crayton was last year?

you went back 3 years to compare for harper and then our other wr's, i go back also to show why those stats are not a fair comparison.

Actually I only did that for comparison to Harper. It's unfair to judge players for years they weren't even in the league. I compared Jones' numbers to Hurd's Austin's or Stanback's for last season, and his overall numbers are better than the three combined. Same catches, less total yardage, but more touchdowns, despite playing little and being deactivated for 4 games.

that's all. but you keep comparing them cause jones beat them but don't compare the situations they're in as well cause that won't help matt.

I can compare 'situations' too if you'd like. I'm not cherry-picking or hiding anything.

If you want to tell me about all of the 'opportunities' Jones had in Jacksonville, start with his getting 5 career starts over 3 years, despite leading the team in receiving in 2006.

That sure screams 'opportunity' to me.....

 

[iceberg]

stash, for that matter how do we know he won't beat out TO?

again i just feel you take the unknown and make it all pro-jones. this is where i'll bow out now and someone else can tag in for awhile.

 

[Stash]

stash, for that matter how do we know he won't beat out TO?

again i just feel you take the unknown and make it all pro-jones. this is where i'll bow out now and someone else can tag in for awhile.

Hey iceman, it's all good.

I'm not looking to run you off.

I enjoy the conversation.

Really.

I just really believe in this idea and am trying to bring up all of the facts that I can to support it.

I'm not hiding any facts or making stuff up to support my case, just showing what's actually happened versus common misperceptions.

 

[iceberg]

Hey iceman, it's all good.

I'm not looking to run you off.

I enjoy the conversation.

Really.

I just really believe in this idea and am trying to bring up all of the facts that I can to support it.

I'm not hiding any facts or making stuff up to support my case, just showing what's actually happened versus common misperceptions.

nah - it's all good here too, stash. but i do start to find myself getting frustrated at every turn of events being in jones favor so i just stop and go do something else.

one year i was the OLINE SUCKS dude, so i know where your passion is from and appreciate it, if not agree. : )

 

[gazmc_06]

I'm not gonna get involved in all these debates, but if we have a chance to get the guy I would take him without any hesitation. Playing in Jacksonville's power running system with no stable QB (until last year) would make it hard for anyone to put up great numbers.

His size, speed and power alongside T.O. is a "risk" worth taking IMO.