DMN Blog: Gosselin: Among other Cowboys for Hall, Larry Allen most likely

[dallascowboyfanboy]

Everyone calls the Cowboys O-line of the 90's the greatest OL ever. Not just Cowboys fans, everyone. You hear it all the time when comparisons are made between Emmitt Smith and Barry Sanders.

1 Hall of Fame player on the greatest O-line ever.

That O-line was better as a unit than individuals. They all knew how the man beside them played and worked in unison beautifully. They had great coaches too. Look at the Chicago Bulls arguably considered the greatest NBA team of all time when they went 72-10. Besides Pippen and MJ does anyone think that any of the other 10 players were great? NO!

 

[burmafrd]

That O line was a true UNIT. Even bringing in different guys did not seem to matter much. It was not until 97 that it really started going downhill.

 

[WoodysGirl]

But how do you measure a Hall of Fame fullback?

That's why I have a problem with Hall of Fame voting. Voters tend to lump all running backs in the same category, i.e., rushing yards and touchdowns.

But fullbacks don't get a lot of yards or touchdowns. Does that mean no fullback who've played in the NFL are worthy of the Hall of Fame?

It's the same with kickers and punters.

You ought to be able to make the Hall based on your position and the contributions you made to the game from your position.

If you look at it that way, Darryl Johnston definitely belongs in the Hall.

But he won't make it in.

For the record, Haley, Woodson, Jimmy Johnson (yes, I believe he belongs because you can't write the book of NFL history without Jimmy Johnson and how he quickly turned around a dominant franchise starting essentially from scratch) and Darryl Johnston (along with Darryl Johnston) should be inducted into the NFL Hall of Fame.

Jerry Jones will get there eventually too.

Since you brought him up..

Rick Gosselin: Jimmy Johnson's chances for Hall of Fame remote


11:00 AM Sun, Feb 07, 2010 | Permalink | Yahoo! Buzz
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In a chat Friday on ***BANNED-URL***, Pro Football Hall of Fame writer and member of the selection committee Rick Gosselin was asked about the chances that two-time Super Bowl champion coach Jimmy Johnson give the Cowboys another member of the Hall of Fame.

"Longevity will be a knock. Jimmy spent two five-year terms with the Cowboys and Dolphins and didn't win anything in his second go-round as an NFL coach. Tom Flores also won two Super Bowls as a coach, and his name rarely comes up, either."

 

[Hostile]

I think Larry Allen will be the last Cowboy from the 90s to get into the Hall of Fame.

Hos, those 90s Offensive Lines were good but some may say they were good as a "unit" but when you look at "individually", I think Larry Allen is the only true Hall of Famer.

If Erik Williams hadn't gotten in that accident, he may have had a chance.

I don't disagree with you, though I think Nate Newton deserves some consideration. He may have been a fat tub of goo, but he was out fat tub of goo.

 

[Hostile]

And Larry Allen didn't contribute on the first two Super Bowl teams so the arguments against Emmitt become even weaker when you consider Allen wasn't there for Smith's early years.

Sir, yes sir.

 

[dboyz]

Someone will have to explain to me how John Randle gets in but Harvey Martin doesn't.

When people think of the greatest line they usually refer to the 92-93 teams and there are no hall of famers on that line. I can't believe Randle is in and Guys like Richard Dent, the aforementioned Martin, Cliff Harris are not in. Strange indeed.

For the record I think Drew Pearson is a borderline case, although he probably should get in based on Stallworth and Swan. Novacek is not a hall of famer and probably not Daryl Johnson. Both very good workmanlike players but not hall of famers. Haley should probably go in at some point, Larry Allen as well. I think Darren Woodson was underappreciated and would be a legitimate hall of famer, but will probably not get in. Erik Williams should probably be given consideration. He was the best offensive linemen in the leage for a few years and an above average linemen for several years after that.

 

[peck-sicilyisland]

Everson Walls should be in.

 

[Randy White]

That O-line was better as a unit than individuals. They all knew how the man beside them played and worked in unison beautifully. !

Really ? All 12 of them... ? Which group of 5 was the GOAT ? If Larry is a lock ( as he should be ), why not the late Tui and Nate, who were THE only two linemen ouf ALL of them to play EVERY game during Emmitt's best years ( '91-'95 ) ?

 

[jterrell]

Cowboys still left:

Larry Allen -- 1st ballot for sure.
Darren Woodson -- Strong Safety that could man cover WRs and still hit like a ton of bricks. Dominant special teamer as well.
Harvey Martin

Those guys to me are locks. Martin would be in if they kept sack totals back then imho.

Borderline guys:
Big Nate -- savvy player who only gets credit for his size.
Moose -- was a role-player by definition. just perhaps one of the best role players ever.
Drew Pearson -- better than that dufus in Pittsburgh who got in. His battles with Jerry (no matter how legit) do not help his cause at all.
Too Tall -- definitely wont make boxing hall of fame
Big E -- only hurt by longevity but the guy manhandled Hall of Famer Reggie White in his prime when no one else in football could do so.
Jimmy Johnson -- Longevity and performance in Miami as the guy running the whole show probably make him a no go.

Future:
Demarcus Ware -- He needs to maintain it but he's got the HoF squarely in his targets.
Jason Witten -- Needs to be part of a SB win or two but he's well on his way.
Tony Romo -- Not even close at this point but if he maintains this years standard another 5 years and pulls in a SB or two he will be in the argument. He will have destroyed all the Cowboys passing records including ones for Qb rating, TDs, passing yardage. If he is Favre-like and plays until he is senile then he will be a lock.

 

[jterrell]

Someone will have to explain to me how John Randle gets in but Harvey Martin doesn't.

When people think of the greatest line they usually refer to the 92-93 teams and there are no hall of famers on that line. I can't believe Randle is in and Guys like Richard Dent, the aforementioned Martin, Cliff Harris are not in. Strange indeed.

For the record I think Drew Pearson is a borderline case, although he probably should get in based on Stallworth and Swan. Novacek is not a hall of famer and probably not Daryl Johnson. Both very good workmanlike players but not hall of famers. Haley should probably go in at some point, Larry Allen as well. I think Darren Woodson was underappreciated and would be a legitimate hall of famer, but will probably not get in. Erik Williams should probably be given consideration. He was the best offensive linemen in the leage for a few years and an above average linemen for several years after that.

Randle played tackle. That is why. He was a great pass rusher inside. He also had zero competition from teammates. Randle's only Viking counterpart is Cris Carter and he's not in. Essentially you have to be considered the best of your era at the position or one of the couple best plus have won titles.

Randle made 6 All Pro teams and had 137.5 sacks playing mostly DT. That's unheard of and thus why he got in.

Dent also had 137.5 sacks but only made 1 All Pro team.

Martin isn't in because the media didn't like him as he was very quiet even to teammates. And because they didn't officially record the most vital stat to getting him until his career was basically over. Harris has been bamboozled because we didn't beat the friggin Steelers more often.

 

[Randy White]

Future:

Demarcus Ware -- He needs to maintain it but he's got the HoF squarely in his targets.

Jason Witten -- Needs to be part of a SB win or two but he's well on his way.

Tony Romo -- Not even close at this point but if he maintains this years standard another 5 years and pulls in a SB or two he will be in the argument. He will have destroyed all the Cowboys passing records including ones for Qb rating, TDs, passing yardage. If he is Favre-like and plays until he is senile then he will be a lock.

This three guy are in the same, exact, category. They need to get the ring to make it a lock, but all three are surely on their way.

At this point, there are 2 things that might prevent them from getting there: not getting a ring and injuries.

Aside from those two obstacles, there's nothing else in their way.

 

[Direwolf63]

Cowboys still left:

Larry Allen -- 1st ballot for sure.
Darren Woodson -- Strong Safety that could man cover WRs and still hit like a ton of bricks. Dominant special teamer as well.
Harvey Martin

Those guys to me are locks. Martin would be in if they kept sack totals back then imho.

Borderline guys:
Big Nate -- savvy player who only gets credit for his size.
Moose -- was a role-player by definition. just perhaps one of the best role players ever.
Drew Pearson -- better than that dufus in Pittsburgh who got in. His battles with Jerry (no matter how legit) do not help his cause at all.
Too Tall -- definitely wont make boxing hall of fame
Big E -- only hurt by longevity but the guy manhandled Hall of Famer Reggie White in his prime when no one else in football could do so.
Jimmy Johnson -- Longevity and performance in Miami as the guy running the whole show probably make him a no go.

Future:
Demarcus Ware -- He needs to maintain it but he's got the HoF squarely in his targets.
Jason Witten -- Needs to be part of a SB win or two but he's well on his way.
Tony Romo -- Not even close at this point but if he maintains this years standard another 5 years and pulls in a SB or two he will be in the argument. He will have destroyed all the Cowboys passing records including ones for Qb rating, TDs, passing yardage. If he is Favre-like and plays until he is senile then he will be a lock.

People can argue whether he was a Cowboy or not, but Deion Sanders is a lock to make in.

Leon Lett had Hall of Fame talent and actually played at that level for a short time. But his off field issues destroyed his career.

If Jay Ratliff can play at a high level for another 5 to 7 years and win a Super Bowl or 2, he would have a chance. Very difficult to do that at the position he plays though.

 

[Randy White]

averages 3,500 yards and 20 TDs for the next 10 years, he'd move ahead of Warren Moon in terms of stats.

And if any critics say that " well, it was a passing fest during Romo's years ", all that needs to be pointed out is that Moon's best years were with Houston Oilers' run-n-shoot offense, which is a passing fest offense.


and Moon doesn't have any rings.

 

[Chief]

Guys who will eventually get in:

Larry Allen
Jerry Jones
DeMarcus Ware
Deion Sanders
Charles Haley


Guys who should get in, but probably won't:

Cliff Harris
Darren Woodson
Harvey Martin
Chuck Howley
Drew Pearson


Keep an eye on:

Jason Witten
Tony Romo
David Buehler

 

[The Realist]

Guys who will eventually get in:

Larry Allen
Jerry Jones
DeMarcus Ware
Deion Sanders
Charles Haley


Guys who should get in, but probably won't:

Cliff Harris
Darren Woodson
Harvey Martin
Chuck Howley
Drew Pearson


Keep an eye on:

Jason Witten
Tony Romo
David Buehler

And if Miles Austin consistently plays the way he did last year............

 

[tyke1doe]

Someone will have to explain to me how John Randle gets in but Harvey Martin doesn't.

When people think of the greatest line they usually refer to the 92-93 teams and there are no hall of famers on that line. I can't believe Randle is in and Guys like Richard Dent, the aforementioned Martin, Cliff Harris are not in. Strange indeed.

For the record I think Drew Pearson is a borderline case, although he probably should get in based on Stallworth and Swan. Novacek is not a hall of famer and probably not Daryl Johnson. Both very good workmanlike players but not hall of famers. Haley should probably go in at some point, Larry Allen as well. I think Darren Woodson was underappreciated and would be a legitimate hall of famer, but will probably not get in. Erik Williams should probably be given consideration. He was the best offensive linemen in the leage for a few years and an above average linemen for several years after that.

It all comes down to numbers. The Cowboys have seven players from their two 70s Super Bowls. The Steelers have nine for their four. There's no way that voters are going to put more Cowboys from that era in the Super Bowl when some teams don't have nearly as many guys coming in. And then you factor in the possibility of the Cowboys having two more sure guys (Deion and Larry Allen) going in along with Aikman, Irvin and Emmitt and the possibility of Charles Haley and maybe Darren Woodson getting in, and I doubt very seriously any more Cowboys get in the Hall of Fame.

No, it's not fair. But some would argue it's not fair for the Cowboys to have so many in and some times don't have any players in the Hall.

 

[tyke1doe]

averages 3,500 yards and 20 TDs for the next 10 years, he'd move ahead of Warren Moon in terms of stats.

And if any critics say that " well, it was a passing fest during Romo's years ", all that needs to be pointed out is that Moon's best years were with Houston Oilers' run-n-shoot offense, which is a passing fest offense.


and Moon doesn't have any rings.

But he accomplished that during an era where passing wasn't the norm. Now it is. It's going to be harder for quarterbacks in this passing era to get into the Hall with a Super Bowl ring. He'll have to have some MVPs and lead the league in passing because it's a passing league.

Also, what works against Tony Romo is that the standard for Cowboys quarterbacks is championships. That's not the standard for other franchises. So Romo, without rings, is going to have to lead the top of the league in passing and collect a few MVPs to have a chance to get in the Hall, IMO.

 

[mbanx]

Wasn't he considered one of the best OL of all time? Did he not shut down "The Preacher" every game we played them in? Why don't I hear his name mentioned?

 

[tyke1doe]

Wasn't he considered one of the best OL of all time? Did he not shut down "The Preacher" every game we played them in? Why don't I hear his name mentioned?

Injury derailed his career. Doesn't have the longevity. However, he was on his way to a Hall of Fame career.

With linemen, they have to have longevity otherwise, they're likely not getting in.

 

[jterrell]

This three guy are in the same, exact, category. They need to get the ring to make it a lock, but all three are surely on their way.

At this point, there are 2 things that might prevent them from getting there: not getting a ring and injuries.

Aside from those two obstacles, there's nothing else in their way.

I'd argue Ware gets in even without a title provided he maintains his double digit sack totals. Witten may very well too.

When you look at who gets in the key is All Pros. Witten, Ware and Ratliff are probably considered a top 5 vote getter in All Pros the next 5 years.
Romo isn't there yet and he needs the SB to jump over some other guys at All Pro. If he wins a SB he easily jumps ahead of Eli because his stats are better for instance.