DMN Blog: Gosselin: Among other Cowboys for Hall, Larry Allen most likely

[jterrell]

People can argue whether he was a Cowboy or not, but Deion Sanders is a lock to make in.

Leon Lett had Hall of Fame talent and actually played at that level for a short time. But his off field issues destroyed his career.

If Jay Ratliff can play at a high level for another 5 to 7 years and win a Super Bowl or 2, he would have a chance. Very difficult to do that at the position he plays though.

Good notes and quite true on Deion.

I didnt list him because to me he is a Falcon.

Leon Lett was a beast but all the suspensions probably do him in. He just missed too many games during his prime.

Ratliff I simply forgot but he's also a pinch myself guy. Him being so good, at such a tough position is really amazing at his size.

 

[JohnsKey19]

I think Larry Allen will be the last Cowboy from the 90s to get into the Hall of Fame.

Hos, those 90s Offensive Lines were good but some may say they were good as a "unit" but when you look at "individually", I think Larry Allen is the only true Hall of Famer.

If Erik Williams hadn't gotten in that accident, he may have had a chance.

If Big E plays thru the entire decade(90s) minus the car accident, he's a slam dunk HOFer IMO. He was basically Larry Allen playing RT, in the way he physically mauled his opponent.

 

[jterrell]

If Big E plays thru the entire decade(90s) minus the car accident, he's a slam dunk HOFer IMO. He was basically Larry Allen playing RT, in the way he physically mauled his opponent.

He wasn't the same player after 1993. He got back into being a top caliber guy for around 95/96 but was aging by the time he fully recovered from the injury it seems.

I'd love to see him get in but the guy only made 4 pro Bowl teams and that's about the least of any Hall of Famer.

 

[burmafrd]

Erik never got back that quickness he had. He was never really close to what he was pre accident.

 

[mldardy]

I think Jerry, Jimmy, LA, Haley, and Deion get in for sure. Woody is on the fence although I think he should be in. He was one of the best safeties in the 90's.

I don't get how Jimmy shouldn't be in. The guy has 2 Super Bowls and turned around a franchise in a short time. I know Gosselin said Flores has two but isn't in which I think is ridiculous as well. If you win multiple Super Bowls you should be in. I don't care what Jimmy did in Miami and how he had a short career what he did for the Cowboys is enough.

 

[punchnjudy]

Nate belongs in the HOF.

Six pro bowls, three rings, and he was the anchor of that left side that they ran behind ad nauseum for several years.

If there are any youtube videos of Cowboys games from the early to mid-nineties that John Madden covered, there should be at least 45 minutes of Newton highlights in any one of them.

 

[sonnyboy]

If Big E plays thru the entire decade(90s) minus the car accident, he's a slam dunk HOFer IMO. He was basically Larry Allen playing RT, in the way he physically mauled his opponent.

Tell me about it. Nobody could block Reggie White til he came along and started dominating him.

His accident and Kevin Smith's injury were killers in late 1994, early 1995. Injuries happen, even season ending injuries. What sucks is that these players were so young, so great and the injuries they suffered just killed their careers. Neither guy could come back close to what they were.

Can you imagine the right side of our OL with Adams and Williams from 1995 through whenever?

How about Smith and Sanders as bookend CBs?

People forget how dominate Smith was for us down the stretch in 1993 and 1994. I thought he was at the start of a HOF career. He was so good that Jones ripped up his rookie deal after two season and resigned him for four years just prior to his injury.

 

[sonnyboy]

Nate belongs in the HOF.

Six pro bowls, three rings, and he was the anchor of that left side that they ran behind ad nauseum for several years.

If there are any youtube videos of Cowboys games from the early to mid-nineties that John Madden covered, there should be at least 45 minutes of Newton highlights in any one of them.

I was thinking the same thing and wonder why his name is seldom brought up as a potential HOFer.
It's almost like he gets lost in the shuffle of the bigger stars of that era and the transition of the team from worst to first.

People see him as one of the holdovers of the losing Cowboys and therefor give him less credit than the new additions who tasted little losing.
Newton was one of the very best RT in football before his shift to LG.

Had he not had his off the field troubles, perhaps he'd already be in the HOF. I think he was arrested or actually doing time about the time he became eligible. Not good.

 

[BubbleScreen]

Larry Allen is a first ballot guy. Only thing against him is that he's not a great interview. But on the field, he was as dominant as they come.

Deion Sanders is another first ballot guy. Persona wise, the opposite of Larry, but production, just as strong.

There are no more locks among retired Cowboys.

Charles Haley will have to wait a long time to get in, but should make it.

Nate will never get in, nor should he. He was in the Hall of Very Good long before his arrests for transporting mind-boggling amounts of weed.

Moose and Woody are two of my all-time favorite Cowboys, but if they were Steelers we'd all complain if they got in.

 

[RS12]

Harvey Martin punished for off field issues?

 

[BAT]

Comparing Jimmy to Tom Flores is ridiculous. Flores may have the same number of SBs, but he did not create a frikkin dynasty like Jimmy did. Jimmy should get partial credit for Switzer's SB, at the very least.

LOCKS to make the HOF:
-Larry Allen
-Deion Sanders
-Charles Haley
-Jerry Jones
-Jason Witten
-DeMarcus Ware

Should be locks, but are not:
-Jimmy Johnson
-Chuck Howley
-Cliff Harris
-Harvey Martin
-Erik Williams

Need help to make the HOF:
-Drew Pearson
-Darren Woodson
-LaRoi Glover
-Tony Romo
-Gil Brandt

 

[mmillman]

Allen should be a lock as he was the most dominant guard in the league for a long stretch.

 

[dboyz]

Randle played tackle. That is why. He was a great pass rusher inside. He also had zero competition from teammates. Randle's only Viking counterpart is Cris Carter and he's not in. Essentially you have to be considered the best of your era at the position or one of the couple best plus have won titles.

Randle made 6 All Pro teams and had 137.5 sacks playing mostly DT. That's unheard of and thus why he got in.

Dent also had 137.5 sacks but only made 1 All Pro team.

Martin isn't in because the media didn't like him as he was very quiet even to teammates. And because they didn't officially record the most vital stat to getting him until his career was basically over. Harris has been bamboozled because we didn't beat the friggin Steelers more often.

Good points certainly. Randle was a heck of a pass rushing tackle to be sure but was nothing special against the run, which is pretty important for DT's. Martin was a truly elite pass rusher at end. My point is that Martin was as as good or better player than Randle. Both were pass rushers, but Randle's lack of run-stopping ability should have factored in as well because he was a DT.

I understand why he is in, but don't agree with it. Dent was a truly elite player and was the best pass rusher on arguably the greatest defensive team of all time, the 85 Bears. I just don't think it should come down to crunching a bunch of numbers and statistics. I hope these selectors actually remember the way these guys played.

 

[dboyz]

It all comes down to numbers. The Cowboys have seven players from their two 70s Super Bowls. The Steelers have nine for their four. There's no way that voters are going to put more Cowboys from that era in the Super Bowl when some teams don't have nearly as many guys coming in. And then you factor in the possibility of the Cowboys having two more sure guys (Deion and Larry Allen) going in along with Aikman, Irvin and Emmitt and the possibility of Charles Haley and maybe Darren Woodson getting in, and I doubt very seriously any more Cowboys get in the Hall of Fame.

No, it's not fair. But some would argue it's not fair for the Cowboys to have so many in and some times don't have any players in the Hall.

Tyke: I certainly understand your point, but there were a couple of eras for the Cowboys in there. They had the nucleus from the mid 60s that was old by the mid 70s. Guys like Lilly, Hayes, etc. and then really a different group from the mid 70s on like Harris, Randy White, Harvey Martin, etc.

I don't agree with viewing it as this many players should get in from this dynasty. Again that logic doesn't work with the great Dallas offensive line.

 

[Established1971]

The 7 Cowboys were from essentially two different teams even though they overlapped. The 60s-early 70s guys like Lilly, Renfro, & Hayes and the mid 70s-80s guys like Dorsett & Randy White and the two who were on both in Rayfield Wright and Staubach.

The 9 Stealers were all from the 70s and all 9 played on all 4 SB teams.

The Stealers were pretty much contenders only in the 70s and a little into the 80s (1972-84) but the Cowboys were contenders from 1966-1985, 20 consecutive winning seasons.

Not quite the same IMO.

excellent point

 

[burmafrd]

Nate was very good but not HOF. Jimmy same. His time at Miami pretty much showed that he was a one time genius who could not replicate it.
Woody comes close but not there either. I have to be honest that the only way I really justify putting in Pearson is because Swann and stallworth are in.
Howley and Harvey Martin on the other hand do deserve to go in. Cliff Harris is about the same level. Gil Brandt should have been in before now frankly- he really did change the way the NFL did business. Which SUPPOSEDLY is the #1 criteria for selection.

 

[mbanx]

Larry Allen is a first ballot guy. Only thing against him is that he's not a great interview. But on the field, he was as dominant as they come.

Deion Sanders is another first ballot guy. Persona wise, the opposite of Larry, but production, just as strong.

There are no more locks among retired Cowboys.

Charles Haley will have to wait a long time to get in, but should make it.

Nate will never get in, nor should he. He was in the Hall of Very Good long before his arrests for transporting mind-boggling amounts of weed.

Moose and Woody are two of my all-time favorite Cowboys, but if they were Steelers we'd all complain if they got in.

I think the HOF should be based on what you did while you played and not based on the morals of other people.

 

[tyke1doe]

Tyke: I certainly understand your point, but there were a couple of eras for the Cowboys in there. They had the nucleus from the mid 60s that was old by the mid 70s. Guys like Lilly, Hayes, etc. and then really a different group from the mid 70s on like Harris, Randy White, Harvey Martin, etc.

I don't agree with viewing it as this many players should get in from this dynasty. Again that logic doesn't work with the great Dallas offensive line.

I agree that it should be based on the player and not whether a certain number of players from a particular team should get in. But those are the arguments I've heard for why more players from a particular team aren't in the Hall.

The Raiders face the same dilemma. I once heard a Hall of Fame voter argue he couldn't justify putting more Raiders from the 70s in the Hall when they would come close to the number the Steelers had but the Raiders only won one Super Bowl compared to Pittsburgh's four.

Really, what it comes down to is the team with the most Super Bowl appearances/wins gets more players inducted into the Hall. Is that fair? ...

That's the debate.

 

[burmafrd]

Actually to be brutally honest how the team did should have NO BEARING at all on electing someone to the HOF. Its supposed to be about how great the player was, NOT the team.

 

[jterrell]

Harvey Martin punished for off field issues?

not issues per se but yea probably personality.

he was very quiet....

too tall apparently hated him because he'd come to cowboys parties and while too tall wanted to flirt with all the women there, harvey would pick the prettiest one and leave, lol. i think he had a similar issue to ricky williams with that anti-social thing.

he avoided the media for the most part.