DMN: Cowlishaw: Cowboys have almost nothing to show from '08, '09 and '12 drafts

peplaw06

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What I have learned from this thread is that NFL players only last 3.5 years. Therefore it is okay to screw up drafts with players you get next to nothing out of for those 3.5 years. Got it.

And yeah it takes 3 years to truly analyze a draft. So we can't call anyone a bust until 3 years down the road, and when they're off the team, it's just due to the fact that the average NFL lifespan is 3.5 years. Win win.
 

Hostile

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What I have learned from this thread is that NFL players only last 3.5 years. Therefore it is okay to screw up drafts with players you get next to nothing out of for those 3.5 years. Got it.

No one said it is okay. It is simply a fact. Just like it's a fact that every other team that drafted players in 2008 will get a pass for one reason or another for having similar results by the same cabal of whiners who want to make the same results in Dallas an indictment.
 

big dog cowboy

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Looked at Seattle and Denver for 2008/2009 drafts.

Seattle - 2008 has 1 player on team, 2009 has 1 player on team
Denver - 2008 has 1 player on team, 2009 has 3 players on team

The 2009 draft was just a bad draft. Without looking into it I'm guessing the team that came out looking the best probably missed on a bunch of picks.
 

ShiningStar

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I'll keep saying it until writers realize it:

The 2009 draft was awful for just about everyone.

Worse draft than even this past year where everyone was in awe of how little talent there was.

Ty for pointing that out. As much as I enjoy hammering Dallas for stupid..that whole draft was weak
 

TheCount

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The 2009 draft was just a bad draft. Without looking into it I'm guessing the team that came out looking the best probably missed on a bunch of picks.

The early rounds of 2009 were packed with talent, we just didn't take part. The idea that 2009 was some kind of miserable draft class is utter fantasy (or nightmare, really) fueled primarily by how terribly we did with so many picks.

Some teams drafted poorly, there's no denying it, but many teams came out of that year with some decent talent. Where that draft really suffered was for teams that went DE/DL early - Most of them turned out to be poor to average players.

Cautionary tale for chasing pass rushers in the draft early that might be worth paying attention to.
 

ShiningStar

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The early round of 2009 were packed with talent, we just didn't take part. The idea that 2009 was some kind of miserable draft class is utter fantasy (or nightmare, really) fueled primarily by how terribly we did with so many picks.

Some teams drafted poorly, there's no denying it, but many teams came out of that year with some decent talent. Where that draft really suffered was for teams that went DE/DL early - Most of them turned out to be poor to average players.

Cautionary tale for chasing pass rushers in the draft early that might be worth paying attention to.

I feel on talent...the draft was weak....most of the talent was spread around. ..and some benefited from good teams
 

xwalker

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Cowlishaw: Cowboys have almost nothing to show from '08, '09 and '12 drafts

Published: 27 January 2014 11:21 PM

Columnist Tim Cowlishaw answered questions in a chat Thursday. Here are some highlights.

Question: Do you ever consider that it's much easier to do the draft as words in the air vs. having to actually draft a player? Jerry has done if not the best job at least a very competent job on the drafts for a very much longer time than you or any writer has given him credit for. And you sure don't hear any crap about his first pick last year anymore do you?

Tim Cowlishaw: I don't know how you could look at recent drafts and say that. From 2008, Scandrick is the only player here. From 2009, no one is here. 2012 appears to have been a terrible draft -- trading up to get Claiborne. In what world, are these good drafts? They should provide the core of this team right now and there is almost nothing there.

http://www.***BANNED-URL***/sports/...w-from-08-09-and-12-drafts.ece?nclick_check=1

The players from the 2008 and 2009 drafts would have already been on their 2nd contracts. With the CBA, the primary value of draft picks is when they are on their initial contract. Other than QB, teams can sign equivalent free agents for the same cost as re-signing their own free agents. There is no significant advantage in re-signing their own free agents vs signing another teams free agents.

Why is he complaining about the 2012 draft? They had a lot of injury issues, but Matt Johnson was the only player with a significant injury history.
1 Morris Claiborne CB
3 Tyrone Crawford DE
4 Kyle Wilber LB
4* Matt Johnson S
5 Danny Coale WR
6 James Hanna TE
7 Caleb McSurdy ILB
 

TheCount

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I feel on talent...the draft was weak....most of the talent was spread around. ..and some benefited from good teams

Isn't that every draft? I don't think there was an abnormal darth of talent. Was it an alltime high in terms of talented prospects? No. But it wasn't impossible to find talented players.
 

Zordon

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not sure anything you are saying has anything to do with what i'm saying.

the chief issue IMHO in dallas has been post new CBA cap mgmt led by Stephen Jones and his scheduled restructure framework around contracts.

jerry isnt signing anyone he wants; he may well be paying too much for a couple apples of his eye but you can darn well bet if there was no cap he'd have signed a lot more quality free agents.

dallas has signed one true FA of note in this new CBA era: Carr.
And had to write one of the worst contracts in history to get that done.

Dallas has been proven by anyone who studies draft to have been an above average drafting team in the past 5 years or so.
They have not been above average in cap mgmt.

In fact the only two teams who are heavily utilizing this crazy push money forward, eat future dead money philosophy is likewise in cap hell and mediocresville in record with a franchise type QB: the Steelers.

I agree with you, which makes me wonder why so many praise Stephen on here and why other around the league do as well. This guy is the biggest phony in the organization.
 

Risen Star

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I agree with you, which makes me wonder why so many praise Stephen on here and why other around the league do as well. This guy is the biggest phony in the organization.

Only rivaled by his father.

But hey, only a few short years ago he was the savior in waiting. Heck, it was just last offseason when several on this board were pretending he was the real GM in Dallas and that somehow that was a good thing.

He grew up around the game, ya know. Been working personnel for nearly two decades.
 

ShiningStar

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Isn't that every draft? I don't think there was an abnort darth of talent. Was it an alltime high in terms of talented prospects? No. But it wasn't impossible to find talented players.

Yes and no.....I think with that draft...a core of talent and the rest was just that...the rest....some talent you can work with or cultivate. .and for the most part that draft was just blah. Im not going to sit and nit pick each round...but the draft was low on talent...did dallas do bad...yes...because they tried harder instead of being smarter....
 

birdwells1

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Looked at Seattle and Denver for 2008/2009 drafts.

Seattle - 2008 has 1 player on team, 2009 has 1 player on team
Denver - 2008 has 1 player on team, 2009 has 3 players on team

This is true over the years I have found a couple of things to be true, all teams have bad drafts and high roster turnover is the norm in a 3 to 4 year span.

So what does that say?

When people, like the author, try to bring up the Cowboys bad draft you can look at NE, NO, or any other respectable organization and they also have bad drafts.

When people rave about the roster turnover conducted by JG, it's just the natural churning of a roster that all teams go through, not some culture changing purge.
 

birdwells1

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This will get swept under the rug by those who will never get it. The average NFL life is 3.5 years. In the era of Free Agency players move on to multiple teams. Further the same people who will grip about 2008 would be griping if we kept Felix, Martellus, and Jenkins. They are never happy with anything and never will be.


I'm in another group, the ones that never wanted them drafted.
 

ScipioCowboy

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The analysis lacks a point of league-wide comparison. Is the Cowboys' performance in drafts really that much worse than the rest of the league's? I predict the answer would be no. Conversely, I predict the Cowboys' draft performance wouldn't be among the best in the league, either.
 

Idgit

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Cowlishaw's argument itself is weak: he's obviously going back too far, and he's jumping the gun on 2012. But it's still the case that this team lacks sufficient depth at key positions, even after a couple years of solid personnel management. We had a couple of significant whiffs in putting the OL together, and a couple of position groups just destroyed by consecutive injuries. And the new CBA and the cap penalty certainly put a necessary crimp that's hurt us a lot more than the organization would ever admit.

Our team was seriously top-heaving in 2010. It's better now, but not enough better. It's a damn shame, because even a little luck on the DL last season with Ware/Ratliff/Spencer/Crawford/Bass probably would have gotten us the East title and a home playoff toss-up. That would have been enough time to buy the extra season I think we're going to need to add depth on defense. As it is, we're going to need a great draft and a couple of shrewd value VFA acquisitions to give ourselves a shot. If we don't get it, we're going to blow it all up and start from scratch and the seasons won't be interesting for another 3 or 4 years if we get the QB and find a HC who's capable of working effectively under the within what's a really challenging management organization.
 

ShiningStar

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Cowlishaw's argument itself is weak: he's obviously going back too far, and he's jumping the gun on 2012. But it's still the case that this team lacks sufficient depth at key positions, even after a couple years of solid personnel management. We had a couple of significant whiffs in putting the OL together, and a couple of position groups just destroyed by consecutive injuries. And the new CBA and the cap penalty certainly put a necessary crimp that's hurt us a lot more than the organization would ever admit.

Our team was seriously top-heaving in 2010. It's better now, but not enough better. It's a damn shame, because even a little luck on the DL last season with Ware/Ratliff/Spencer/Crawford/Bass probably would have gotten us the East title and a home playoff toss-up. That would have been enough time to buy the extra season I think we're going to need to add depth on defense. As it is, we're going to need a great draft and a couple of shrewd value VFA acquisitions to give ourselves a shot. If we don't get it, we're going to blow it all up and start from scratch and the seasons won't be interesting for another 3 or 4 years if we get the QB and find a HC who's capable of working effectively under the within what's a really challenging management organization.

No luck was going to help this team. Period..the end. Garrett not only got outcoached he got up ended evert way possible. Once again he showed not only dalkas but the nfl he was not ready for prime time and it was proving that game. To many mistakes on his part and it all seemed he was basing everything on luck...but luck wasnt having any of it
 

Reality

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Our team was seriously top-heaving in 2010. It's better now, but not enough better. It's a damn shame, because even a little luck on the DL last season with Ware/Ratliff/Spencer/Crawford/Bass probably would have gotten us the East title and a home playoff toss-up.

I think the real issue is that we drafted poorly in specific positions over the last several years which put us in desperation mode for those particular positions in recent years. It forced us to dedicate more picks to the same positions as previous years which prevented us from grabbing guys that could have provided depth and eventual starters at other positions.

We have added two solid players on the offensive line and saw improvement from the other offensive line positions, but now the defense is in such disarray that I'm afraid we'll have to throw a ton of draft picks toward it this year. No matter what we do though, we need to get ahead of curve this year draft-wise to bring our overall draft average up to par.
 

CyberB0b

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The players from the 2008 and 2009 drafts would have already been on their 2nd contracts. With the CBA, the primary value of draft picks is when they are on their initial contract. Other than QB, teams can sign equivalent free agents for the same cost as re-signing their own free agents. There is no significant advantage in re-signing their own free agents vs signing another teams free agents.

Why is he complaining about the 2012 draft? They had a lot of injury issues, but Matt Johnson was the only player with a significant injury history.
1 Morris Claiborne CB
3 Tyrone Crawford DE
4 Kyle Wilber LB
4* Matt Johnson S
5 Danny Coale WR
6 James Hanna TE
7 Caleb McSurdy ILB

He's complaining about the draft because our front office evaluated Claiborne as the best prospect since Deion. The guy has been hurt since we drafted him, and when he's on the field, he has been disappointing. Crawford didn't do a whole lot in his rookie year, and then was hurt for the season. Wilber has only got playing time because we were down to our 5th and 6th options at LB. The rest speak for themselves.

Remember, this is a results driven league. When a player doesn't produce, whether due to injury or other reasons, it falls on the GM. When the team only has 1 playoff win nearly 2 decades, that falls on the GM. Jerry and his family are the only constant in this discussion. The Patriots don't draft that well, but do you hear anyone complaining?
 

casmith07

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The 2009 draft was just a bad draft. Without looking into it I'm guessing the team that came out looking the best probably missed on a bunch of picks.

The 2009 draft was also bad because we gave away key picks for Roy E. Williams. Scouting blunder that year.
 
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