DMN: Cowlishaw: Cowboys have almost nothing to show from '08, '09 and '12 drafts

[jterrell]

Simple answer, there is not any use to saying that other than trying to apologize for the failure to take the right players to contribute to the football team at the time.

The purpose of a draft is to take players who you believe will help your football team, not become productive players elsewhere or just stick around in the league. If they do not contribute meaningfully to your team during their tenure, the failure was in the evaluation.

Please don't contribute to board misinformation.

The 2008 draft produced a starting CBx2, RBx2, and a 2nd TE. That is all HERE FOR THIS TEAM.

Mike Jenkins: 33 starts 71 games played
Fat Felix: 22 starts, 64 games played
MartyB: 25 starts, 55 games played
Scandrick: 30 games started, 87 games played.
Choice: 4 games started, 53 games played

So the draft class was responsible for over 100 combined starts IN DALLAS.

again for the love of all that is holy how is that a bad draft?????

 

[Alexander]

Please don't contribute to board misinformation.

The 2008 draft produced a starting CBx2, RBx2, and a 2nd TE. That is all HERE FOR THIS TEAM.

Mike Jenkins: 33 starts 71 games played
Fat Felix: 22 starts, 64 games played
MartyB: 25 starts, 55 games played
Scandrick: 30 games started, 87 games played.
Choice: 4 games started, 53 games played

So the draft class was responsible for over 100 combined starts IN DALLAS.

again for the love of all that is holy how is that a bad draft?????

Please don't contribute to board stupidity.

Any draft where you have two first round choices and neither one makes it to a second contract, that is a bad draft.

 

[wileedog]

Please don't contribute to board misinformation.

The 2008 draft produced a starting CBx2, RBx2, and a 2nd TE. That is all HERE FOR THIS TEAM.

Mike Jenkins: 33 starts 71 games played
Fat Felix: 22 starts, 64 games played
MartyB: 25 starts, 55 games played
Scandrick: 30 games started, 87 games played.
Choice: 4 games started, 53 games played

So the draft class was responsible for over 100 combined starts IN DALLAS.

again for the love of all that is holy how is that a bad draft?????

Starting and making an actual impact are two very different things. Scandrick is the only guy on your list whose production was close to his draft pick value.

 

[jterrell]

Please don't contribute to board stupidity.

Any draft where you have two first round choices and neither one makes it to a second contract, that is a bad draft.

By my quick count that means 20 of the 1st round picks in 2008 were bad draft picks.
Good game, good effort Cowlishaw.
How about you try researching things instead of tossing out idioms as if they are true and meaningful.

Dumb spreads all too quickly here.

 

[jterrell]

Starting and making an actual impact are two very different things. Scandrick is the only guy on your list whose production was close to his draft pick value.

feel free to create an "impact" metric and publish it.
in he meantime I'll deal in facts not your feelings.

 

[wileedog]

feel free to create an "impact" metric and publish it.
in he meantime I'll deal in facts not your feelings.

The fact is we spent first round picks on an average CB and a "complimentary" RB and a 2nd round pick on a backup blocking TE playing behind a future HOFer.

Exhibit 1,284 why we are a perennial 8-8 team.

 

[CyberB0b]

By my quick count that means 20 of the 1st round picks in 2008 were bad draft picks.
Good game, good effort Cowlishaw.
How about you try researching things instead of tossing out idioms as if they are true and meaningful.

Dumb spreads all too quickly here.

20/32 sounds right to me. Actually 12 guys out of the first round sounds high to me.

 

[birdwells1]

I know, it is very convenient.

To be honest, at the time of the draft, I wondered (and posted), why draft Felix Jones in the first when Jamaal Charles was available in the later rounds.
My reasoning was that if Jones wasn't a full time starting rb at Arkansas how is he going to be in the NFL.
I also stated that Charles was a heck of a good rb in high school but Texas just didn't use him the right way to show his ability. He was a full time starter at UT and was used to carrying the load. Charles was as fast or faster than Jones due to the fact that he was a prolific sprinter while at P.A. Memorial and on the UT track team (ran a 10.2).

On Bennett, my argument wasn't about his ability but with a philosophy that I have. I just don't believe you draft high in an area that takes up one position on the field and the player that in that position is a pro bowl caliber player. Those positions would be QB, TE, K, and maybe center, my reasoning is that the player you draft probably won't get to see the field. The way that it played out with Bennett I was right, and so far with Escobar it's been the same thing. This team has too many holes to fill to draft a guy in the second that won't be an immediate impact player.

I can't say much about Jenkins because I didn't know much about him at the time.

 

[ElGatoGrande]

I don't understand why anybody pays attention to anything Cowlishaw says,,, he's just another mediot who's primary goal is overstating anything and everything that furthers the mainstream narrative. If you read him, and you're upset, you've got nobody but yourself to blame.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Please don't contribute to board misinformation.

The 2008 draft produced a starting CBx2, RBx2, and a 2nd TE. That is all HERE FOR THIS TEAM.

Mike Jenkins: 33 starts 71 games played
Fat Felix: 22 starts, 64 games played
MartyB: 25 starts, 55 games played
Scandrick: 30 games started, 87 games played.
Choice: 4 games started, 53 games played

So the draft class was responsible for over 100 combined starts IN DALLAS.

again for the love of all that is holy how is that a bad draft?????

Its not and you know in the salary cap era when you hit on picks leave. Just last season Felix Jones, Mike Jenkins, Orlando Scandrick and Martellus started. They have nothing to show for the 2008 draft because they couldn't retain those guys. If you want to talk about a bad draft bring up the 2009. I guess that's getting old so people are piling on the 2012 and 2008 drafts. Please. There are so many other things wrong with this organization......you can win in this league with 2008 drafts. Just don't expect to retain all that talent. Gift and the curse of the salary cap era. You need to hit on drafts to succeed in this league but you can't maintain the talent.

 

[jterrell]

The fact is we spent first round picks on an average CB and a "complimentary" RB and a 2nd round pick on a backup blocking TE playing behind a future HOFer.

Exhibit 1,284 why we are a perennial 8-8 team.

an average starting CB is worth a r1 selection every draft, especially one taken after the top 20 picks.

a complementary RB is not worth an R1 pick but that wasn't Felix' upside potential just his result.
the 2nd on Bennett was darn well worth it.
he was an extra OL in a time when our OL was atrocious.
a fair portion of Witten's catches have come with MartyB blocking to buy time.
Scandrick was an insane value.
Choice was a very solid value and had we not drafted Felix might look even better.

Again it is hard to make an NFL team, much less start for one.

instead of rattling off idioms compare the dallas draft to others. show us a league average or something.

the giants won a couple super bowls with duckface eli yet here's their 2008 haul
2008

1

Kenny Phillips

DB

Miami (FL) --- 41 games started 56 games played
2Terrell ThomasDBUSC ---41 games started 61 games played
3Mario ManninghamWRMichigan ---28 starts 50 games played
4Bryan KehlLBBrigham Young ---3 starts, 3 games played
5Jonathan GoffLBVanderbilt ---20 starts, 37 games played
6Andre' WoodsonQBKentucky ---nothing ever
7Robert HendersonDESouthern Mississippi ---nothing ever

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

To be honest, at the time of the draft, I wondered (and posted), why draft Felix Jones in the first when Jamaal Charles was available in the later rounds.
My reasoning was that if Jones wasn't a full time starting rb at Arkansas how is he going to be in the NFL.
I also stated that Charles was a heck of a good rb in high school but Texas just didn't use him the right way to show his ability. He was a full time starter at UT and was used to carrying the load. Charles was as fast or faster than Jones due to the fact that he was a prolific sprinter while at P.A. Memorial and on the UT track team (ran a 10.2).

On Bennett, my argument wasn't about his ability but with a philosophy that I have. I just don't believe you draft high in an area that takes up one position on the field and the player that in that position is a pro bowl caliber player. Those positions would be QB, TE, K, and maybe center, my reasoning is that the player you draft probably won't get to see the field. The way that it played out with Bennett I was right, and so far with Escobar it's been the same thing. This team has too many holes to fill to draft a guy in the second that won't be an immediate impact player.

I can't say much about Jenkins because I didn't know much about him at the time.

You didn't need a full time starter with Marion Barber on the team. You needed a change of pace back. Now you can argue that a change of pace back that high was ridiculous. I won't disagree. But Felix was a 1st round talent. He wasn't a reach by any means talent wise. He may have been a reach as far as what we already had on this team.

 

[jterrell]

20/32 sounds right to me. Actually 12 guys out of the first round sounds high to me.

i only discounted ones I knew for certain had moved on or been cut.
i erred on side of caution so to speak.

 

[CyberB0b]

i only discounted ones I knew for certain had moved on or been cut.
i erred on side of caution so to speak.

Either way, it doesn't surprise me that only 12 guys in the first round were hits. That is why you don't trade away draft picks for one prospect (Galloway, Williams, Claiborne). You need as many picks as possible. Obviously, in 2009, we did a terrible job of evaluating the talent of the dirty dozen, but it didn't help that we traded away our first pick for Roy Williams. I mean, there were some decent guys to be had after #20 in 2009. Even a guy like Patrick Chung would have been more productive than what we got for Roy.

 

[jterrell]

Its not and you know in the salary cap era when you hit on picks leave. Just last season Felix Jones, Mike Jenkins, Orlando Scandrick and Martellus started. They have nothing to show for the 2008 draft because they couldn't retain those guys. If you want to talk about a bad draft bring up the 2009. I guess that's getting old so people are piling on the 2012 and 2008 drafts. Please. There are so many other things wrong with this organization......you can win in this league with 2008 drafts. Just don't expect to retain all that talent. Gift and the curse of the salary cap era. You need to hit on drafts to succeed in this league but you can't maintain the talent.

2009 was an abysmal draft and deserves nothing but scorn.
we traded too much for a vet, expensive WR, traded down away from the little talent(round 2/3 area was actually strong) that existed in that draft and generally picked players who sucked or didnt fit our scheme.

2008 is the kind of draft you want in order to build a winning roster. hit on NFL players throughout the draft.
those 2008 draftees are solid kinda guys. not all pro but get the roster full of legit NFL players and good things happen.
our cap mgmt was poor and we couldnt really see bidding on those guys as reserves or depth.
we moved on with rookies/street free agents and that's why we had crap for depth.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

2009 was an abysmal draft and deserves nothing but scorn.
we traded too much for a vet, expensive WR, traded down away from the little talent(round 2/3 area was actually strong) that existed in that draft and generally picked players who sucked or didnt fit our scheme.

2008 is the kind of draft you want in order to build a winning roster. hit on NFL players throughout the draft.
those 2008 draftees are solid kinda guys. not all pro but get the roster full of legit NFL players and good things happen.
our cap mgmt was poor and we couldnt really see bidding on those guys as reserves or depth.
we moved on with rookies/street free agents and that's why we had crap for depth.

I agree. 2008 is as good of a draft as you can get. I guess its missing that one Pro Bowler(Though Jenkins is a pro bowler and Marty B is a potential pro bowler guy) but that's the type of draft you hope you get when you draft guys especially late round picks in each round.

 

[17yearsandcounting]

I agree. 2008 is as good of a draft as you can get. I guess its missing that one Pro Bowler(Though Jenkins is a pro bowler and Marty B is a potential pro bowler guy) but that's the type of draft you hope you get when you draft guys especially late round picks in each round.

So a bad attitude corner, a backup runningback because BoyWonder incorrectly identified MB3 as a feature back, and a tight end that you never plan on using is as good as you can get?

 

[Miller]

Since when does a guy starting games...some elsewhere equate to "good draft?" I'm confused by this concept. You could have a horrible team because of past drafts and then the new guys drafted are forced to start. It doesn't mean they are good drafts or good players. It means they are serviceable enough to bounce around the NFL and to be used. The point of the draft it to see a Witten or a Ware or a Tyron or a Dez and say..."look, this guy is a top contributor." The idea isn't to say "look 4 out of 5 still are warm bodies in the league and they played for us some too." 2009 was the year Jerry decided we needed special teamers and depth for our SB run. 2008 was only 5-6 years back. Despite the 3.5 average thrown out you wouldn't expect a whole draft to disappear without one guy still being meaningful on your team. Jenkins had one good year and regressed. Marty was a head case here and did nothing. He still has bounced around. Choice had nothing once he got elsewhere and is buried every year on depth charts. You draft to help YOUR team. If they aren't here to fit your team scheme, you failed.

 

[jterrell]

To be honest, at the time of the draft, I wondered (and posted), why draft Felix Jones in the first when Jamaal Charles was available in the later rounds.
My reasoning was that if Jones wasn't a full time starting rb at Arkansas how is he going to be in the NFL.
I also stated that Charles was a heck of a good rb in high school but Texas just didn't use him the right way to show his ability. He was a full time starter at UT and was used to carrying the load. Charles was as fast or faster than Jones due to the fact that he was a prolific sprinter while at P.A. Memorial and on the UT track team (ran a 10.2).

On Bennett, my argument wasn't about his ability but with a philosophy that I have. I just don't believe you draft high in an area that takes up one position on the field and the player that in that position is a pro bowl caliber player. Those positions would be QB, TE, K, and maybe center, my reasoning is that the player you draft probably won't get to see the field. The way that it played out with Bennett I was right, and so far with Escobar it's been the same thing. This team has too many holes to fill to draft a guy in the second that won't be an immediate impact player.

I can't say much about Jenkins because I didn't know much about him at the time.

There were lots of folks who loved Charles out of that draft.
He was a UT guy and he had carried it for 1400 yards as a junior.
But honestly Charles had serious fumbling issues in college and had a down year his sophomore year.
No one rated him as the guy he became.
(no argument on his world class track speed tho)

No one was discounting Felix for playing behind what was thought to be a historic RB in McFadden.
Felix was also the NCAA's best kickoff returner.
In fact the lack of wear and tear via less carries was a big plus for Felix.
He had very real value. And he'd never been hurt or had any issues.
He had great hands out of the backfield.
No one foresaw him getting fat.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

So a bad attitude corner, a backup runningback because BoyWonder incorrectly identified MB3 as a feature back, and a tight end that you never plan on using is as good as you can get?

Look, fact is last season was 2013 and Jenkins, Bennett are starting for their respective teams and turned in solid years. Even Erik Walden has made a decent career for himself.

I don't know where this misconception comes from that you hit on every draft pick but when you come back to reality that 2008 draft was solid. I don't care about a "bad attitude". That's silly. Richard Sherman has a "bad attitude" and he's a winner. If i'm starting a all boys choir i'll take inconsideration "attitude". But i'm building a football team.