News: DMN: Draft analyst: Why the Cowboys are hoping to trade down in the first round

[casmith07]

I hope the draft falls this way:

1. Tunsil
2. Wentz
3. Ramsey

That will set us up perfectly to trade back with Los Angeles or SF at 4 so they can get Goff. Preferably the Rams -- give us your 2RD picks and we'll swap 1RDs.

That'll give us #15 - perfect spot for Zeke Elliott, Laquon Treadwell, or another good talent.

Swap with SF would put us ahead of the Eagles and Giants for Treadwell or Elliott as well. And still put Myles Jack in play, or DeForest Buckner.

 

[speedkilz88]

I haven't read an answer to this so I'll try to help.

Talent wise he's a top ten pick although most scouts agree Jalen Smith from Notre Dame is the better of the two but both have knee injury concerns. Smith's is the bigger risk because it may involve nerve damage which is a shame, similar to Marcus Lattimore, the running back from Georgia who never recovered enough to be the player he could've been. Smith will get drafted but it's anybody's guess where.

There are whispers that many teams are shying away from Jack at this point. The icing on the cake was that he passed on running a 40 at his personal workout.

It makes sense the Cowboys would stay away from him because the team simply cannot afford to miss on this pick. That's not to say they couldn't miss on any player, but adding an injury component to a top five pick is risky business.

I would expect the Cowboys to pass on Miles Jack but not because of talent. Lastly, you know Jerry - it's possible that the team might pull the trigger on Jalen Smith if he drops to the third.

In any case, both are very interesting players to watch in this year's draft.

I think the 3rd would still be rich on Jalen Smith. He's expected to miss at least a year even if he does recover fully. The Cowboys team doctor though was his surgeon so they will have the best opinion on his chances.

 

[Sydla]

I hope the draft falls this way:

1. Tunsil
2. Wentz
3. Ramsey

That will set us up perfectly to trade back with Los Angeles or SF at 4 so they can get Goff. Preferably the Rams -- give us your 2RD picks and we'll swap 1RDs.

That'll give us #15 - perfect spot for Zeke Elliott, Laquon Treadwell, or another good talent.

Swap with SF would put us ahead of the Eagles and Giants for Treadwell or Elliott as well. And still put Myles Jack in play, or DeForest Buckner.

Noah Spence or Shaq Lawson please.

 

[JoeBoBBY]

You shouldn't confuse a poster arguing with most of the dumb criticism found daily on a sports message board with liking everything a team does. Some people simply don't like to belabor their negative criticism. And the level of critical nit-picking on sports forum boards league-wide during an offseason is always insane. When I go to an NFL board and read criticisms of teams I don't follow or don't even like, I usually find myself having the same reaction to a lot of posts: "Well, that's a dumb emotional overreaction."

The bottom line is that it's really difficult to build a consistent winner in the NFL. A lot of time, effort, and ability goes into it in every NFL city. It's easy to see what a team is trying to do if you pay enough attention. Some plans are better than others, but most of the time, the plans are pretty good. Then the season comes along and hits you in the face. It's a cage match where only one plan is left standing at the end of the year. That's what makes it fun to watch.

It is fun to watch.

But what is not fun, is seeing "Your Team" consistently lose that cage match. -- I have grown to a point as a Cowboys fan that I am surprised by any "Win" what so ever.....

After the two decades of futility, what should be the appropriate "dumb emotional overreaction"? Or should fans just ignore all of it, and keep thinking ...."next year"?

I guess it depends on what kind of a fan you are.

It is "really difficult to build a consistent winner in the NFL"..... I think that is understood by most fans over the age of 21. But, there they are, again and again, year in and year out, the same franchises making a push into the playoffs.....

We have seen some very bad, bad football in Dallas, over the last two decades.....Some really foul games. Some games it was incredibly obvious the players were in it for the paycheck........and that's about it. imho, the paycheck is What the Dallas Cowboys have become. Its their culture.....

its never been soooo good!!!

 

[Idgit]

It is fun to watch.

But what is not fun, is seeing "Your Team" consistently lose that cage match. -- I have grown to a point as a Cowboys fan that I am surprised by any "Win" what so ever.....

After the two decades of futility, what should be the appropriate "dumb emotional overreaction"? Or should fans just ignore all of it, and keep thinking ...."next year"?

I guess it depends on what kind of a fan you are.

It is "really difficult to build a consistent winner in the NFL"..... I think that is understood by most fans over the age of 21. But, there they are, again and again, year in and year out, the same franchises making a push into the playoffs.....

We have seen some very bad, bad football in Dallas, over the last two decades.....Some really foul games. Some games it was incredibly obvious the players were in it for the paycheck........and that's about it. imho, the paycheck is What the Dallas Cowboys have become. Its their culture.....

its never been soooo good!!!

Hey, I'm not saying every reaction is an overreaction. And I'm not saying every criticism is dumb. I'm saying the frustration invites overreactions and dumb criticisms.

In Toruk's case (and I haven't really combed through his post history, but let's just use him as an example), there are probably dozens of critical threads and hundreds of critical posts he never replies to because he reads them and things 'meh, reasonable.' Or 'meh, I don't agree, but I can see where they're coming from.' Then he gets to a post saying there are comparable players to Ramsey in the mid-rounds and he thinks 'ok, enough already.' Or in this case, he remembers that bad criticism (of a player who's not even on our roster, by the way), and he comments on it.

And I don't agree, by the way, that the quality of football in Dallas is bad right now. I think it's been decent, overall, under Romo and under Garrett. That's not saying it couldn't be a lot better.

 

[JoeBoBBY]

Hey, I'm not saying every reaction is an overreaction. And I'm not saying every criticism is dumb. I'm saying the frustration invites overreactions and dumb criticisms.

In Toruk's case (and I haven't really combed through his post history, but let's just use him as an example), there are probably dozens of critical threads and hundreds of critical posts he never replies to because he reads them and things 'meh, reasonable.' Or 'meh, I don't agree, but I can see where they're coming from.' Then he gets to a post saying there are comparable players to Ramsey in the mid-rounds and he thinks 'ok, enough already.' Or in this case, he remembers that bad criticism (of a player who's not even on our roster, by the way), and he comments on it.

And I don't agree, by the way, that the quality of football in Dallas is bad right now. I think it's been decent, overall, under Romo and under Garrett. That's not saying it couldn't be a lot better.

And yes, I agree. We are fans. That's what I consider myself. A Fan. Fans , over react, are emotional, and sometimes just dumb. But the same could be said for the "more reasonable, well thought out" crowd...... What exactly has all that got for the Boys?

I guess I am at the point , that anything or anyone defending what the Cowboys are and how they do business or the decisions made, at this point, seems............... " irrelevant" to me. The entire argument, no matter how well thought out and presented, is ...............irrelevant. What does it all add up too?

Were losers people. The Cowboys are irrelevant when it comes to winning NFL playoff games.
Now, we are very fun to watch and talk about and opine on, and cheer for. I mean, who could resist Rowdys optimism?

But. We lose. We have been losing. We are losers. And its been that way for 2 decades.

What about winning? Doesn't that count for anything anymore?

 

[endersdragon]

No one threw his way. He is a generational talent. He broke up every pass that was thrown his way (if at all). He is a generational talent. He made every tackle. He is a generational talent. I'm done. The guy walks on water.

So I take it you can't answer then?

 

[endersdragon]

Just to add some data to the discussion. Here are the CBs taken in the last ten drafts in the Top 15. There are some who had close numbers to what Ramsey had but Ramsey would have the lowest amount of interceptions of any CB taken in the last 10 years in the top half of the first round.

2006
Tye Hill - 5 interceptions

2007
Revis - 8 interceptions

2008
Leodis McKelvin - 4 interceptions
Rodgers-Cromartie - 11 interceptions

2009
Jenkins - 11 interceptions

2010
Hayden - 8 interceptions

2011
Peterson - 7 interceptions

2012
Claiborne - 11 interceptions
Gilmore - 8 interceptions

2013
Milliner - 6 interceptions
Hayden - 6 interceptions (in only 2 seasons)

2014
Gilbert - 5 interceptions
Fuller - 6 interceptions

2015
Waynes - 6 interceptions
Johnson - 9 interceptions

Claiborne had tied for the most INTs of any CB... that worked out really well.

 

[Idgit]

And yes, I agree. We are fans. That's what I consider myself. A Fan. Fans , over react, are emotional, and sometimes just dumb. But the same could be said for the "more reasonable, well thought out" crowd...... What exactly has all that got for the Boys?

I guess I am at the point , that anything or anyone defending what the Cowboys are and how they do business or the decisions made, at this point, seems............... " irrelevant" to me. The entire argument, no matter how well thought out and presented, is ...............irrelevant. What does it all add up too?

Were losers people. The Cowboys are irrelevant when it comes to winning NFL playoff games.
Now, we are very fun to watch and talk about and opine on, and cheer for. I mean, who could resist Rowdys optimism?

But. We lose. We have been losing. We are losers. And its been that way for 2 decades.

What about winning? Doesn't that count for anything anymore?

The thing I always go back to is that I tend to take the same philosophical approach to every team's efforts. There are teams I abjectly hate (PHI, PIT, etc), but I still look at what they're doing and say 'eh, I get it.' And then there are teams like the Browns have been for the last 5 years or so that I look at and say 'ok, so that's an actual dumpster fire.' But even with the dumpster fires, it doesn't follow for me that everything they do is crap until they start winning. Objectively, they make good moves and bad ones. They just make a lot of bad ones.

That stuff doesn't bleed over much to my appreciation of the Cowboys. I know what *I* think wins games. I value stability in the organization and playing the long odds and building through the draft. Overspending to get the best staff possible, and then working a system to develop the players. That's mostly why I like what's going on here recently (though I agree that the jury is still out on our ability to identify and develop young players at a fast enough rate). I think that's what leads to winning long-term, though, so I'm willing to go through the short term bumps and bruises. And I think we would be heading into a 3 year winning streak right now if it weren't for some bad luck last season. It's up to the team to prove that, but they have at least a realistic chance to do that.

And it really hasn't been two full decades of losing. There have been competitive seasons during that time. It's been two decades of fairly mediocre football interspersed with some exciting seasons. Basically, we sucked coming off the Superbowl years, rebuilt under Parcels and made his run under Wade. Got beat during our best shot at a Superbowl by the upstart Giants in 2007, missed that window completely, and then had to rebuild again starting in 2010. Frustrating, sure, but it hasn't been a complete disaster during that time.

 

[DandyDon52]

To say nothing of how idiotic it would be for a team to follow that philosophy. If the Cowboys actually practiced prudence, patience, and frugality when it came to free agency, and then followed that up by drafting for 'immediate impact', they're morons who would get the awful results that they deserved.

cant you draft for 'immediate impact' and still be getting the best player at the position who could help the team for years to come ??
If all the people on this board were allowed to draft for cowboys this year , there would be many different players drafted in different orders.

I think if elliot is as good as some say he would be worth a top pick for the cowboys.
he would make a huge impact. it could lead to a SB run so would it not be worth it if it did lead to that??

Or we can trade down get more picks, and not have a special run game.

Any picks can turn out to be meh or really good so more doesnt mean better.

With our OL , I think it is silly to just use mediocre backs when they could put a top back in by drafting elliot.

That would mean tony handing off a lot instead of passing alot, which would help him not get hurt.
And it would help the passing game.

If he is a elite back then I say grab him and become a run heavy team, and use Mcf and Morris too to spell Elliot or rest him.

 

[JoeBoBBY]

The thing I always go back to is that I tend to take the same philosophical approach to every team's efforts. There are teams I abjectly hate (PHI, PIT, etc), but I still look at what they're doing and say 'eh, I get it.' And then there are teams like the Browns have been for the last 5 years or so that I look at and say 'ok, so that's an actual dumpster fire.' But even with the dumpster fires, it doesn't follow for me that everything they do is crap until they start winning. Objectively, they make good moves and bad ones. They just make a lot of bad ones.

That stuff doesn't bleed over much to my appreciation of the Cowboys. I know what *I* think wins games. I value stability in the organization and playing the long odds and building through the draft. Overspending to get the best staff possible, and then working a system to develop the players. That's mostly why I like what's going on here recently (though I agree that the jury is still out on our ability to identify and develop young players at a fast enough rate). I think that's what leads to winning long-term, though, so I'm willing to go through the short term bumps and bruises. And I think we would be heading into a 3 year winning streak right now if it weren't for some bad luck last season. It's up to the team to prove that, but they have at least a realistic chance to do that.

And it really hasn't been two full decades of losing. There have been competitive seasons during that time. It's been two decades of fairly mediocre football interspersed with some exciting seasons. Basically, we sucked coming off the Superbowl years, rebuilt under Parcels and made his run under Wade. Got beat during our best shot at a Superbowl by the upstart Giants in 2007, missed that window completely, and then had to rebuild again starting in 2010. Frustrating, sure, but it hasn't been a complete disaster during that time.

I would grade the last two decades as very low. If you want to say D, instead of F. Okay. I mean, even the Bucs and Saints have at least won a SB........

And, I am child of the 70's 80s...... I got use to winning;........... But, I get it. Some times things aren't going to go right. There will be years and years of "rebuilding" which may or may not work.....

But I think we have gone so long now, that it indicates something else is wrong.....and losing has become....standard. Its okay, next year.....and the excuses are just starting to all blend in together and sound like blubberish....

"And I think we would be heading into a 3 year winning streak right now if it weren't for some bad luck last season. It's up to the team to prove that, but they have at least a realistic chance to do that."

Yup, another bad luck season for the Boys.....darn it fellas, we have had soo much bad luck. next year. We are doing some things now that will get us back on track.

Bless their hearts....

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I hope the draft falls this way:

1. Tunsil
2. Wentz
3. Ramsey

That will set us up perfectly to trade back with Los Angeles or SF at 4 so they can get Goff. Preferably the Rams -- give us your 2RD picks and we'll swap 1RDs.

That'll give us #15 - perfect spot for Zeke Elliott, Laquon Treadwell, or another good talent.

Swap with SF would put us ahead of the Eagles and Giants for Treadwell or Elliott as well. And still put Myles Jack in play, or DeForest Buckner.

When that happens and Goff/Bosa gets picked I am going to be loving it.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

And yes, I agree. We are fans. That's what I consider myself. A Fan. Fans , over react, are emotional, and sometimes just dumb. But the same could be said for the "more reasonable, well thought out" crowd...... What exactly has all that got for the Boys?

I guess I am at the point , that anything or anyone defending what the Cowboys are and how they do business or the decisions made, at this point, seems............... " irrelevant" to me. The entire argument, no matter how well thought out and presented, is ...............irrelevant. What does it all add up too?

Were losers people. The Cowboys are irrelevant when it comes to winning NFL playoff games.
Now, we are very fun to watch and talk about and opine on, and cheer for. I mean, who could resist Rowdys optimism?

But. We lose. We have been losing. We are losers. And its been that way for 2 decades.

What about winning? Doesn't that count for anything anymore?

Nobody can argue against the Cowboys being mismanaged for much of 20 years.

But this is a new regime and whether people want to agree or not this is a new front office structure.

Why can't we judge them on their own merits without bringing up 2 decades of futility? Anything other that screams being angry just to be angry to me.

 

[JoeBoBBY]

Nobody can argue against the Cowboys being mismanaged for much of 20 years.

But this is a new regime and whether people want to agree or not this is a new front office structure.

Why can't we judge them on their own merits without bringing up 2 decades of futility? Anything other that screams being angry just to be angry to me.

Fair enough. But these two decisions are inexcusable to me , as a fan of the Dallas Cowboys.

1. Finally finding an Identity that can compete with the power teams of the league. A Run first Identity. That identity was Demarco Murray. But okay, fine, he is asking too much let him walk. But then, you go into That season, with Joe Randle? ---- Was that some sort of joke or something?

2. Not knowing that BW was horrible and thinking he could win games.........and thinking Romo would stand for 16 games.............

then a big swing and a miss on Hardy.

That's all on the "new" regime...............I know, I know....give it time. Next year....their new plans and mode of operation will eventually work......

I guess what I am saying is.............. no, it wont. I aint buying it............. now, I will spend money to see a game or a hat or something and Ill watch the games on TV. But I don't think they have a clue as to what they are doing; Yeah, they may gets some Ws here and there....but overall, the Dallas Cowboys are losers. Its almost a joke now.............a joke that people don't even talk about , because its rude to pick on the weak;

Bad. Just bad. How can anybody defend that??????? My teenage nephews could've made better decisions...

 

[Sydla]

Nobody can argue against the Cowboys being mismanaged for much of 20 years.

But this is a new regime and whether people want to agree or not this is a new front office structure.

Why can't we judge them on their own merits without bringing up 2 decades of futility? Anything other that screams being angry just to be angry to me.

Because there is still a pretty powerful, consistent object that links the old regime to the new regime - Jerry Jones.

It would be one thing if Jones was a hands off owner who hired people to do their job and had recently put in place an entire new front office. But that's not the case. Further, another important piece of the front office, McClay, has been around since 2002. Garrett has been around the Cowboys now since 2007. So in reality, 3 of the four most important people in making talent decisions, have been around for almost a decade or longer.

In reality, the only hope here is that possibly Jerry is handing off more of the control to the 4th player in roster creation, his son, who appears to be a bit more grounded (see Martin versus Manziel). But even still, this team really needs to get more out of their later picks. In the end, the proof is in the pudding and right now, the Cowboys haven't really had a SB caliber roster for some time. Even the 2014 team lacked SB caliber talent on defense.

Doesn't mean things can't and won't change soon, but it's hard to ignore that there still is heavy influence in the front office from people who very much have been part of some of the front office/personnel failures of the last 10 years.

 

[Stash]

cant you draft for 'immediate impact' and still be getting the best player at the position who could help the team for years to come ??
If all the people on this board were allowed to draft for cowboys this year , there would be many different players drafted in different orders.

If you're expecting 'immediate impact', you're setting yourself up for failure. The team added three first round talents last year with at least two of those considered the best at their position. And those three talents did little of anything to prevent this team from going 4-12.

I think if elliot is as good as some say he would be worth a top pick for the cowboys.
he would make a huge impact. it could lead to a SB run so would it not be worth it if it did lead to that??

Or we can trade down get more picks, and not have a special run game.

Any picks can turn out to be meh or really good so more doesnt mean better.

With our OL , I think it is silly to just use mediocre backs when they could put a top back in by drafting elliot.

That would mean tony handing off a lot instead of passing alot, which would help him not get hurt.
And it would help the passing game.

If he is a elite back then I say grab him and become a run heavy team, and use Mcf and Morris too to spell Elliot or rest him.

With our O-line, I think it's "silly" to invest what could be the pick that gets you a franchise quarterback for the next 10-15 years on a position that you can easily get each and every year. To say nothing of paying a bigger salary than what you could have gotten Lamar Miller for. An asinine combination.

The league's leading rusher was available for anyone to sign a year ago. The second leading rusher available this year. By comparison, you just can't buy a franchise quarterback, no matter the price.

This team doesn't need Ezekiel Elliott.

 

[CCBoy]

What are your guys thoughts on Myles Jack? I don't know much about him but see his named mentioned a lot?

I'm an ex-linebacker, and Jack with both Sean Lee and Rolando McClain would make the trio in Dallas, one of the most gifted linebackers in the NFL...and Jack is a true play maker.

 

[CCBoy]

Sure, a cb prospect who doesn't get int's.

His being a one-trick pony is why most scouts for teams have him graded as one of the very top talents in the draft...at both cornerback and safety.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

When exactly did the new Regime take over, so we can know when to start the new official futility streak?

I am very supportive of the trade down situation, at which point I would be comfortable with this team taking a flyer on Jaylon Smith somewhere in the mix. In that scenario, we can only afford to take a swing on one "project", whether it is a QB or Smith.

At #4, not sure which player would make me scream the most in protest or even the one that would make me the happiest. That in and of itself is kind of a frustrating thing. I think maybe the one that would make me scream the loudest would be Buckner just because I don't see him as a fit. Jack's knee scares me just because his recovery has been soooo long....it normally isn't an injury I would be concerned about at all but it is kind of uncharted territory. The happiest would probably be Wentz or Goff as I do think this is a chance to get our QB of the future and give him some time to learn. Drafting one of these QB's by Dallas is going to be completely different than them getting picked by a Cleveland or San Fran where they might be starting on opening day.

 

[DandyDon52]

If you're expecting 'immediate impact', you're setting yourself up for failure. The team added three first round talents last year with at least two of those considered the best at their position. And those three talents did little of anything to prevent this team from going 4-12.



With our O-line, I think it's "silly" to invest what could be the pick that gets you a franchise quarterback for the next 10-15 years on a position that you can easily get each and every year. To say nothing of paying a bigger salary than what you could have gotten Lamar Miller for. An asinine combination.

The league's leading rusher was available for anyone to sign a year ago. The second leading rusher available this year. By comparison, you just can't buy a franchise quarterback, no matter the price.

This team doesn't need Ezekiel Elliott.

Well how do you know if any of the top 3 are going to be franchise type QB's ?? or the one dallas picks if they do.

And if dallas did pick elliot at 4 and then won the SB with elliot having a great year would the pick then be worth it?