News: DMN: Rod Marinelli not fun to be around after Dallas Cowboys fail to record a sack

TheMarathonContinues

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So objective people call out teams that are playing poorly and talk positively about teams playing well?

No way! That is just crazy!

Is that what you call it lol? Talking "positively about the team" lol. I guess.....its much more extreme than just talking positively about the team. Before the season even started people wanted everyone fired and cut.
 

visionary

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Is that what you call it lol? Talking "positively about the team" lol. I guess.....its much more extreme than just talking positively about the team. Before the season even started people wanted everyone fired and cut.

I have 3 words for you

Merit
Performance
Results

Look them up
In the real world these might mean something
 

Bullflop

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Just found out something about Marinelli that I had heard before but had forgotten -- he was a Marine "tunnel rat" in Vietnam. It takes some pretty big stones to do something like that. Come to think of it, he's just the "gung-ho" type that it figures he'd be one to do something like that. Volunteers for that particular job were hard to find.
 

ConstantReboot

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So who has more Cred: Woodie or Marinelli? As much as I like Woodie, gotta go with the big M.

Both have credibility.Both are right. However, Marinelli isn't one that wants his team comfortable. If he says that sacks aren't important do you think that the team will try hard to get sacks?
 

visionary

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My retort would be two words; understanding football.

My retort would also be 2 words: "hot air"

If you don't think football is about merit and performance and results, then perhaps it is time for a refresher
 

jobberone

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My retort would also be 2 words: "hot air"

If you don't think football is about merit and performance and results, then perhaps it is time for a refresher

Implying you might benefit from understanding football better is not a personal attack. Implying I'm full of hot air borders on a personal attack.

Those who have attacked this team and its personnel FO down are having to deal with their rhetoric from others. Those who have been more vehement in their attacks and 'realism' are catching more flack than some others. Fighting back and couching your realism in sheeps' clothing won't really help much IMO. But I give you credit for not throwing your banner down and fleeing.
 

visionary

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Implying you might benefit from understanding football better is not a personal attack. Implying I'm full of hot air borders on a personal attack.

Those who have attacked this team and its personnel FO down are having to deal with their rhetoric from others. Those who have been more vehement in their attacks and 'realism' are catching more flack than some others. Fighting back and couching your realism in sheeps' clothing won't really help much IMO. But I give you credit for not throwing your banner down and fleeing.

Nothing to do with a personal attack and I am not couching anything as anything , just stating my views. Just because you don't like me as a poster does not mean you get to denigrate me, esp when you are wrong.
There is nothing wrong with saying that a trainee HC that took an undisciplined team to 3 consecutive 8-8 seasons and did not make the playoffs in a VERY weak division and made completely idiotic in-game decisions, is in over his head.
There is also nothing wrong with giving credit when the team starts performing better. Maybe in some bizarro homer world these concepts are alien, but jn the real world these are accurate. The reality is that the offense is doing a whole lot better with almost the same personnel just having removed Garrett's influence on offensive game planning and play calling . Garrett gets credit for linehan and for being a good walk around HC at the present time but that does not detract from the fact that linehan is much better OC and much of our success this year can be attributed to this. There are several lines of evidence to suggest that a lot of this has more to do with Jerry than Garrett. Romo went to Jerry to talk him into drafting OL , Jerry traded down and picked T Fred and did not take the DT that went to MN who Garrett wanted by all accounts, whenever Jerry had talked about why he picked Martin and other OL he generally talks about Stephens influence and there is not a peep about Garrett, kiffin/marinelli were recommended by others to Jerry and on and on. The issue is that there is no way to know for sure who was responsible for what despite what some smug "insiders" had to say.

But the bottom line is that I don't care about any of if now. Just like I focused on the team record when they were losing and playing undisciplined football and saying Jerry and Jason are at fault , I will focus on the record , state that the team is playing more sound football and give credit to Jerry and Jason.

All I care about is that the team plays disciplined tough football and hopefully wins .
 

jobberone

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Nothing to do with a personal attack and I am not couching anything as anything , just stating my views. Just because you don't like me as a poster does not mean you get to denigrate me, esp when you are wrong.
There is nothing wrong with saying that a trainee HC that took an undisciplined team to 3 consecutive 8-8 seasons and did not make the playoffs in a VERY weak division and made completely idiotic in-game decisions, is in over his head.
There is also nothing wrong with giving credit when the team starts performing better. Maybe in some bizarro homer world these concepts are alien, but jn the real world these are accurate. The reality is that the offense is doing a whole lot better with almost the same personnel just having removed Garrett's influence on offensive game planning and play calling . Garrett gets credit for linehan and for being a good walk around HC at the present time but that does not detract from the fact that linehan is much better OC and much of our success this year can be attributed to this. There are several lines of evidence to suggest that a lot of this has more to do with Jerry than Garrett. Romo went to Jerry to talk him into drafting OL , Jerry traded down and picked T Fred and did not take the DT that went to MN who Garrett wanted by all accounts, whenever Jerry had talked about why he picked Martin and other OL he generally talks about Stephens influence and there is not a peep about Garrett, kiffin/marinelli were recommended by others to Jerry and on and on. The issue is that there is no way to know for sure who was responsible for what despite what some smug "insiders" had to say.

But the bottom line is that I don't care about any of if now. Just like I focused on the team record when they were losing and playing undisciplined football and saying Jerry and Jason are at fault , I will focus on the record , state that the team is playing more sound football and give credit to Jerry and Jason.

All I care about is that the team plays disciplined tough football and hopefully wins .

I don't know you as a human being so what I don't like is your constant negativity in your posting pattern. It has nothing to do with you personally as again I don't know you. There are others that get the same attention from me and it's the same with them. It's nothing personal for them either. I didn't say you were wrong with that one post. I agree completely. It appears you might have missed my praise for you as well.

But you're ignoring the follow up post which is about why you're getting some attention from other members. I'm happy you're enjoying the current results and hope you learn to appreciate the journey.
 

Moderately_Askew

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Nothing to do with a personal attack and I am not couching anything as anything , just stating my views. Just because you don't like me as a poster does not mean you get to denigrate me, esp when you are wrong.
There is nothing wrong with saying that a trainee HC that took an undisciplined team to 3 consecutive 8-8 seasons and did not make the playoffs in a VERY weak division and made completely idiotic in-game decisions, is in over his head.
There is also nothing wrong with giving credit when the team starts performing better. Maybe in some bizarro homer world these concepts are alien, but jn the real world these are accurate. The reality is that the offense is doing a whole lot better with almost the same personnel just having removed Garrett's influence on offensive game planning and play calling . Garrett gets credit for linehan and for being a good walk around HC at the present time but that does not detract from the fact that linehan is much better OC and much of our success this year can be attributed to this. There are several lines of evidence to suggest that a lot of this has more to do with Jerry than Garrett. Romo went to Jerry to talk him into drafting OL , Jerry traded down and picked T Fred and did not take the DT that went to MN who Garrett wanted by all accounts, whenever Jerry had talked about why he picked Martin and other OL he generally talks about Stephens influence and there is not a peep about Garrett, kiffin/marinelli were recommended by others to Jerry and on and on. The issue is that there is no way to know for sure who was responsible for what despite what some smug "insiders" had to say.

But the bottom line is that I don't care about any of if now. Just like I focused on the team record when they were losing and playing undisciplined football and saying Jerry and Jason are at fault , I will focus on the record , state that the team is playing more sound football and give credit to Jerry and Jason.

All I care about is that the team plays disciplined tough football and hopefully wins .

crying-aby-with-hands-on-head.jpg


The steps you take to not give Jason Garrett the credit he deserves is mind numbing.
 

MapleLeaf

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Those "steps" are called facts

I do have a personal suggestion for you.

I suggest you take on a volunteer position in caching a youth football team. Try three different ages with the last one being HS.

The problem I am seeing with your view of football is you are focusing on the wins and losses. Easy to do as a fan, but much harder to do when you are the coach.

This is how I am viewing what Jason is doing with the team. Taek it from a coach's pt of view and then decide what is the best course of action to not just win games, but to build a consistently competitive team.
 

visionary

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I do have a personal suggestion for you.

I suggest you take on a volunteer position in caching a youth football team. Try three different ages with the last one being HS.

The problem I am seeing with your view of football is you are focusing on the wins and losses. Easy to do as a fan, but much harder to do when you are the coach.

This is how I am viewing what Jason is doing with the team. Taek it from a coach's pt of view and then decide what is the best course of action to not just win games, but to build a consistently competitive team.

I can understand why you would not want to focus on wins and losses because Garrett's record has not been great in this regard

Every great football coach I have ever known says that it is about winning

If you are a coach, all I can is that I pity your team
 

Moderately_Askew

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Ah..."agenda", the last resort when u don't have a cogent answer

Oh, I do. In fact I can go over it point by point if you like.

Nothing to do with a personal attack and I am not couching anything as anything , just stating my views. Just because you don't like me as a poster does not mean you get to denigrate me, esp when you are wrong.
There is nothing wrong with saying that a trainee HC that took an undisciplined team to 3 consecutive 8-8 seasons and did not make the playoffs in a VERY weak division and made completely idiotic in-game decisions, is in over his head.
There is also nothing wrong with giving credit when the team starts performing better. Maybe in some bizarro homer world these concepts are alien, but jn the real world these are accurate. The reality is that the offense is doing a whole lot better with almost the same personnel just having removed Garrett's influence on offensive game planning and play calling . Garrett gets credit for linehan and for being a good walk around HC at the present time but that does not detract from the fact that linehan is much better OC and much of our success this year can be attributed to this. There are several lines of evidence to suggest that a lot of this has more to do with Jerry than Garrett. Romo went to Jerry to talk him into drafting OL , Jerry traded down and picked T Fred and did not take the DT that went to MN who Garrett wanted by all accounts, whenever Jerry had talked about why he picked Martin and other OL he generally talks about Stephens influence and there is not a peep about Garrett, kiffin/marinelli were recommended by others to Jerry and on and on. The issue is that there is no way to know for sure who was responsible for what despite what some smug "insiders" had to say.

But the bottom line is that I don't care about any of if now. Just like I focused on the team record when they were losing and playing undisciplined football and saying Jerry and Jason are at fault, I will focus on the record , state that the team is playing more sound football and give credit to Jerry and Jason.

All I care about is that the team plays disciplined tough football and hopefully wins .

The old "trainee HC" argument, now tell me are all head coaches ready from day one? Sure you could name a few, but I could name many more that were not such as Pete Carrol and Bill Belichick. I am sure none of those coaches every made a bad in-game decision, I would go as far as saying every great coach has made a bad in-game decision from time to time. There are a few things that you fail to mention in your beginning argument, first the "undisciplined team". Yes the team was undisciplined, but I am sure that once Garrett took over that was suppose to change over night. Garrett had the monumental task of changing a teams culture and attitude. This takes time and what do you know it took three years because the second part, his guys. When Garrett took over he had to cut many players, mostly aging vets with a sense of entitlement who did not have the right attitude. It took time to draft and sign players that fit the mold that Garrett wanted on his team.Lastly, it took time to accumulate young, hungry, and smart talent that were his RKGs, the kind of team he wanted that is disciplined. This team is still incomplete, but are playing well, hard and more disciplined. Now on to the 8-8 seasons argument, I am not sure if you realized, but this team has been rebuilding over the last three years. The fact that we didn't have a losing season and were in contention for the division crown each year is, I believe, quite remarkable. For some reason some people fail to realize that so I would like to know, do you believe this team was so enriched with talent that we should have been over .500 and going to the NFC Championship every year?

I am glad you gave Garrett some credit, but then you will only go so far. I hate to break the news to you, but Lineham is running the same offense that Garrett has run since he became the OC. I will say Lineham is a better play caller than Garrett, but Garrett is a far superior head coach. If you believe for one second that Garrett is not in on the game planning and play calling than I have some beachfront property in Wyoming that is for sale. The reason for this success crosses over into your next argument, that this success came be "attributed to Jerry". First of all, I commend you for having so much hate for Garrett that you would rather give the credit to Jerry, it makes me smile from ear to ear. So you are telling me that Romo went to his GM asking for lineman? That's crazy, I am sure no player has ever asked for more talent in the history of the NFL. Of course once you make that argument you open your self up to acknowledging that you take what Jerry says in interviews to heart. Now, moving on, Garret has said before that his first priority was upgrading the OL because he wanted to run and the past few years he has had to use smoke and mirrors to have any semblance of a running game. So this success you attribute to Lineham is just a product of the team finally having the Oline that Garrett has wanted since he took over the team. So now that you admit you take what Jerry takes as gospel you conveniently forget to mention that he talks of the influence from the people around him, including Garrett. Jerry only mentions Stephen by name because he is his son.

Next lets talk about your argument that it was Kiffin and Marinelli were recommended by others to Jerry. What you fail to see is that the OC and DC all have connections to Jason Garrett. Kiffin was the DC and Marinelli was the DL coach at Tampa Bay in 2004 in whcih Garrett was a backup QB, his last year as a backup QB in the NFL. Lineham was the OC at Miami who hired Garrett as the QB coach, in fact Lineham was so impressed with Garrett that he hired him 10 hours after meeting him. When Lineham became the HC of the Rams he even tried to hire Garrett as the OC. All three coaches have ties with Garrett and Garrett is the reason all three coaches wanted to come to Dallas.

The problem with many people is that they want instant gratification and do not have the patience to let a plan unfold. Ever heard the saying can't see the forest for the trees? Garrett's vision for this team is finally coming to fruition and I am not only excited for this year, but for the future.
 
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visionary

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Oh, I do. In fact I can go over it point by point if you like.



The old "trainee HC" argument, now tell me are all head coaches ready from day one? Sure you could name a few, but I could name many more that were not such as Pete Carrol and Bill Belichick. I am sure none of those coaches every made a bad in-game decision, I would go as far as saying every great coach has made a bad in-game decision from time to time. There are a few things that you fail to mention in your beginning argument, first the "undisciplined team". Yes the team was undisciplined, but I am sure that once Garrett took over that was suppose to change over night. Garrett had the monumental task of changing a teams culture and attitude. This takes time and what do you know it took three years because the second part, his guys. When Garrett took over he had to cut many players, mostly aging vets with a sense of entitlement who did not have the right attitude. It took time to draft and sign players that fit the mold that Garrett wanted on his team.Lastly, it took time to accumulate young, hungry, and smart talent that were his RKGs, the kind of team he wanted that is disciplined. This team is still incomplete, but are playing well, hard and more disciplined. Now on to the 8-8 seasons argument, I am not sure if you realized, but this team has been rebuilding over the last three years. The fact that we didn't have a losing season and were in contention for the division crown each year is, I believe, quite remarkable. For some reason some people fail to realize that so I would like to know, do you believe this team was so enriched with talent that we should have been over .500 and going to the NFC Championship every year?

I am glad you gave Garrett some credit, but then you will only go so far. I hate to break the news to you, but Lineham is running the same offense that Garrett has run since he became the OC. I will say Lineham is a better play caller than Garrett, but Garrett is a far superior head coach. If you believe for one second that Garrett is not in on the game planning and play calling than I have some beachfront property in Wyoming that is for sale. The reason for this success crosses over into your next argument, that this success came be "attributed to Jerry". First of all, I commend you for having so much hate for Garrett that you would rather give the credit to Jerry, it makes me smile from ear to ear. So you are telling me that Romo went to his GM asking for lineman? That's crazy, I am sure no player has ever asked for more talent in the history of the NFL. Of course once you make that argument you open your self up to acknowledging that you take what Jerry says in interviews to heart. Now, moving on, Garret has said before that his first priority was upgrading the OL because he wanted to run and the past few years he has had to use smoke and mirrors to have any semblance of a running game. So this success you attribute to Lineham is just a product of the team finally having the Oline that Garrett has wanted since he took over the team. So now that you admit you take what Jerry takes as gospel you conveniently forget to mention that he talks of the influence from the people around him, including Garrett. Jerry only mentions Stephen by name because he is his son.

Next lets talk about your argument that it was Kiffin and Marinelli were recommended by others to Jerry. What you fail to see is that the OC and DC all have connections to Jason Garrett. Kiffin was the DC and Marinelli was the DL coach at Tampa Bay in 2004 in whcih Garrett was a backup QB, his last year as a backup QB in the NFL. Lineham was the OC at Miami who hired Garrett as the QB coach, in fact Lineham was so impressed with Garrett that he hired him 10 hours after meeting him. When Lineham became the HC of the Rams he even tried to hire Garrett as the OC. All three coaches have ties with Garrett and Garrett is the reason all three coaches wanted to come to Dallas.

The problem with many people is that they want instant gratification and do not have the patience to let a plan unfold. Ever heard the saying can't see the forest for the trees? Garrett's vision for this team is finally coming to fruition and I am not only excited for this year, but for the future.

You make some good points and I will say 3 brief things:

1. Garett was and is a trainee because he had only 4-5 years of total coaching experience before becoming HC. I don't think there is a single successful NFL HC in the last 20 years who had less coaching experience.

2. Your points are not difficult to refute because much of what I said was based on direct quotes from Jerry, all from recent articles posted on CZ. If you think he is lying, you need to prove it.

3. Many of the Garrett supporters have said that Garrett is not being allowed to what he wants by Jerry and have laid the blame for past failings on Jerry . Now that the team is playing better I find it funny that the same guys are suddenly saying that Garrett's vision and decisions are responsible. Can't have it both ways. Sorry. If you want to give Jason credit you will have to give at least as much (if not more) credit to Jerry.

Bottom line though is that if the team plays good disciplined and consistent football and wins in the list season both Jason and Jerry (along with marinelli and linehan and the players ) will absolutely deserve the credit. Just don't expect those of us who can think rationally , to give all the credit to Garrett because it does not make any sense to do so
 
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