DMN | Who's the better draft pick: Larry Allen or Michael Irvin

[jimmy40]

can I just ask what made Jerry better than Mike?

Everyone just accepts it as truth, Mike was a better player and a better teammate, and in my head it's not even close.

Jerry has 20 years and I understand it, and I know he was an amazing receiver, but I watched him a ton like I did Mike and Mike was a better player.

Jerry was faster, but that's about the only thing he had on Mike.

I never understood why, even in that era, it was always Jerry Rice and then everyone else.

Reed in buffalo was an amazing receiver in that era, but no one even mentions him.

Jerry Rice may be the GOAT but he is over rated and has been for years and years.

Irvin himself called Rice "Jesus in cleats".

 

[CoCo]

I think a lot of you are missing the point. It's about the best DRAFT PICK. You have the greatest Guard ever, who completely dominated his opponents and made them quit - who was drafted in the 2nd round, over a WR who was Top - 10 ever who was selected in the upper 1st round.

It's about who was the better draft pick...

And many folks feel the primary measure used to answer that question is "who made the greater contribution."

Its really not (IMO) about who ranks higher all-time at their position because all positions are not created equal in terms of contribution.

Some folks feel that as great as Larry was, and perhaps even the greatest of all-time as an OG, that Mike's contributions to overall team success were greater.

 

[jimmy40]

How many GM's do you honestly think would select a LT no matter how great they are over a Jerry Rice or a Troy Aikman if they knew what they were getting?

How many GM's would take Allen over Irvin? That's the question.

 

[joseephuss]

can I just ask what made Jerry better than Mike?

Everyone just accepts it as truth, Mike was a better player and a better teammate, and in my head it's not even close.

Jerry has 20 years and I understand it, and I know he was an amazing receiver, but I watched him a ton like I did Mike and Mike was a better player.

Jerry was faster, but that's about the only thing he had on Mike.

I never understood why, even in that era, it was always Jerry Rice and then everyone else.

Reed in buffalo was an amazing receiver in that era, but no one even mentions him.

Jerry Rice may be the GOAT but he is over rated and has been for years and years.

Rice was great and he would have been great in any system and with any team. He had great body control, was very fluid and had a nose of the end zone. Irvin was great, but Rice was better. No way Rice is over rated. Irvin may be a little under rated, but he still was just a little behind Rice as a receiver.

Reed can't compare to either guy in my opinion. I think he was good, but also a product of the system in Buffalo. Marvin Harrison is similar. Reed scored 0 TDs in 4 Superbowl appearances. Harrison scored 2 career playoff TDs and both came in the same game. Neither of those two guys would have had as much success if they played on different teams and both came up small the bigger the situation.

 

[utrunner07]

If have forgotten how to inbed youtube clips but this one is absolutely amazing. Perhaps some one else can in bed it in a future post here or remind me how. Anyway, I give you Larry the Bolt Allen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFcWMC9vkZg

 

[Clove]

Irvin helped us win lots of super bowls, when he retired, no more super bowls. And since Super Bowls rule in my world, it's Irvin without a doubt.

 

[RainMan]

How many GM's would take Allen over Irvin? That's the question.

No, that would be answering the question, "Who was a better player?" -- which is not what is being asked in this thread.

This isn't a question of who would you choose if both were available at your pick. This is a question of which was a better draft pick.

For instance, who's the better draft pick: Peyton Manning or Tom Brady? Even if Peyton's the better player, that's not really what is being asked IMO.

 

[utrunner07]

If have forgotten how to inbed youtube clips but this one is absolutely amazing. Perhaps some one else can n bed it in a future post here or remind me how. Anyway, I give you Larry the Bolt Allen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFcWMC9vkZg

No comments? This was probably the most athletic play ever made in the history of the NFL by an O line player.

 

[5Stars]

No comments? This was probably the most athletic play ever made in the history of the NFL by an O line player.

No comments? Maybe because that was posted early on in this thread?






:laugh2:

 

[utrunner07]

No comments? Maybe because that was posted early on in this thread?






:laugh2:

haha ok, sorry.

 

[zrinkill]

No comments? This was probably the most athletic play ever made in the history of the NFL by an O line player.

No wonder they delete your posts.

 

[utrunner07]

No wonder they delete your posts.

Hey, at least I contribute something, your entire posting history is one of blind homerism, being proven wrong over and over and over and over and over and over, and calling anyone who dare disagree with that peanut on your shoulders a troll...

 

[zrinkill]

blind homerism

Cry some more.

Lets compare posting history.

Oh wait ..... all yours have been deleted because you cannot follow the rules.

:laugh2:

 

[utrunner07]

Cry some more.

Lets compare posting history.

Oh wait ..... all yours have been deleted because you cannot follow the rules.

:laugh2:

I hope you know you really are my favorite poster here, no matter how much we disagree.

 

[zrinkill]

I hope you know you really are my favorite poster here, no matter how much we disagree.

Thanks ...... I take my job at being an *** very seriously.

 

[utrunner07]

Thanks ...... I take my job at being an *** very seriously.

It shows.

 

[zrinkill]

It shows.

 

[KJJ]

How many GM's would take Allen over Irvin? That's the question.

If they don't have a playmaker at WR they'll take Irvin hands down. HOF playmakers don't come around very often and when they do they're usually a big part of why teams go on to win championships. Anthony Munoz and John Hannah were two of the greatest offensive lineman in history but neither are wearing championship rings because their teams didn't have a Michael Irvin, Jerry Rice, Emmitt Smith or Troy Aikman. There's alot of ways you can define "the best draft pick" I choose to define it as the player who had the greatest impact on a teams success and the Cowboys didn't win any of their 3 SB's in the 90's without Michael Irvin. You can have the greatest offensive lineman ever but you don't win championships without playmakers. Those are the players who win the MVP's and get all the glory because they're the ones who change games.

 

[2much2soon]

If they don't have a playmaker at WR they'll take Irvin hands down. HOF playmakers don't come around very often and when they do they're usually a big part of why teams go on to win championships. Anthony Munoz and John Hannah were two of the greatest offensive lineman in history but neither are wearing championship rings because their teams didn't have a Michael Irvin, Jerry Rice, Emmitt Smith or Troy Aikman. There's alot of ways you can define "the best draft pick" I choose to define it as the player who had the greatest impact on a teams success and the Cowboys didn't win any of their 3 SB's in the 90's without Michael Irvin. You can have the greatest offensive lineman ever but you don't win championships without playmakers. Those are the players who win the MVP's and get all the glory because they're the ones who change games.

I agree. The original question was poorly conceived and ambiguous.

If it was truly "the better draft pick" then it is a really stupid question.

By definition, if two guys both end up in the HOF, then the guy drafted later had to be a better draft pick.

So duh, yeah, drafting Larry Allen later than Irvin was technically a better pick.

But if the question was, by implication, who was more vital to the team's success, then it is Irvin with little doubt in my mind.

 

[jimmy40]

If they don't have a playmaker at WR they'll take Irvin hands down. HOF playmakers don't come around very often and when they do they're usually a big part of why teams go on to win championships. Anthony Munoz and John Hannah were two of the greatest offensive lineman in history but neither are wearing championship rings because their teams didn't have a Michael Irvin, Jerry Rice, Emmitt Smith or Troy Aikman. There's alot of ways you can define "the best draft pick" I choose to define it as the player who had the greatest impact on a teams success and the Cowboys didn't win any of their 3 SB's in the 90's without Michael Irvin. You can have the greatest offensive lineman ever but you don't win championships without playmakers. Those are the players who win the MVP's and get all the glory because they're the ones who change games.

Ok, how about this, your starting a new team, you have no players, your first pick has to be Irvin or Allen. Who do you pick?