Do people realize

Kaiser

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Let's consider the injuries along the defensive line. Crawford and Bass have no more NFL experience than the players who replaced them.

Crawford and Bass are exponentially better than guys like Kearse and Irvin, both of whom were on the field in the 4th Quarter today. Its not about Selvie, its about the weakest link and we have had a steady diet of those on the field in critical moments - which is exactly BZ's point in this thread.
 

jnday

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What fails is your ability to understand an obvious point that two of our best players were out from the beginning.

Rat hasn't been decent in a couple years, but don't let that stop you from pushing your agenda.
 

Kaiser

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Injuries are part if the game, and coaches know that and have to work around it. It is not an excuse.

So Bill Belichick could take a defense made up entirely of street free agents and beat Garrett's Cowboys?
 

Nav22

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There is a very good chance our front seven for next week is:

Selvie Hatcher Hayden Ware
Sims Lee Carter

Thats not terrible, Selvie has been solid.

That would be a huge step up. There's been times this year where all 3 of those LBs PLUS Durant have all been out.

And our DL injuries are well-documented.
 

ScipioCowboy

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Getting to division championship games in three consecutive seasons is nothing to crow about, but it's an accomplishment of sorts. Doing so with a bottom-ten passing defense three years in a row is more impressive yet, though it also says a lot that he wasn't able to improve the passing defense. It's ok to say that game management probably cost us the GB game. That and the holding penalty on a running down that cost us Detroit mean we have to play a meaningful game this week against the odds when we could be resting starters. Some of that's definitely on the head coach. At the same time, this team and this coach are nowhere near as bad as they're made out to be. We've led the division from the starting gun until week 14 or whatever it was, and we're still in contention and control our destiny. To hear some talk, we've been a laughingstock and a dumpster fire all year, and that's just not the case.

And, one note about the improbably losses: this is what happens when you have top-heavy talent allocation on your team. You have to count on players who don't have the skills available to other teams. It bit us under Wade in 2007 and 2009, too. And it bit us under Parcels. Remember when he said we were a dumb team that beat ourselves by mental errors, and one of the reasons he left was because he didn't know how to fix it? This problem has been going on for a lot longer than just under Jason Garrett. At least right now, the problem is largely related to our pass defense, and can be pretty much directly tied to S play and DL and coverage LB decline and injury. We *know* what's wrong. That doesn't mean we can fix it, but I still prefer a positive diagnosis and addressing that aggressively in the offseason to a tear down/rebuild process where we can have a 4th consecutive coach who leads us to 2-3 improbably losses each season that keep us out of the serious playoff hunt.

How much blame we place on Garrett depends on how much responsibility we think he actually has within organization. Certain posters have argued ad nauseum that Jerry is just a figurehead and Garrett is the most important voice on the team. If those posters are correct, Garrett bears the onus of blame for all talent shortcomings and all inabilities to improve deficient areas.

Conversely, if those posters are wrong and Garrett does not have such power, we could reasonably argue Jerry should go out and find a new coach he can trust with those powers.

I'm quite certain that Parcells and Phillips blew leads from time to time, but they weren't setting records for improbability of loss.
 

ScipioCowboy

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Crawford and Bass are exponentially better than guys like Kearse and Irvin, both of whom were on the field in the 4th Quarter today. Its not about Selvie, its about the weakest link and we have had a steady diet of those on the field in critical moments - which is exactly BZ's point in this thread.

Prove it.
 

Coy

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What fails is your ability to understand an obvious point that two of our best players were out from the beginning.

Ratliff one of our best? Did you see him play tonight? Horrible, just horrible.
I give you Spencer but he is not the difference between being one of the worst D in league history and being a good or even an average D, and actually Selvie has been a great replacement for him.
 

Idgit

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Crawford and Bass are exponentially better than guys like Kearse and Irvin, both of whom were on the field in the 4th Quarter today. Its not about Selvie, its about the weakest link and we have had a steady diet of those on the field in critical moments - which is exactly BZ's point in this thread.

Crawford, for sure, was looking to be a player capable of giving us quality snaps. Bass, too, at the 1 tech was looking like he could contribute. Both are better than the players we replaced them with for a fair amount, I think it's fair to say. Losing Spencer was the real bummer, though. We really needed a third rusher this season, and i think he'd have made a world of difference when Ware fell off.
 

Kaiser

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Prove it.

Do a google search on "National Football League" and click on the roster of each team for the year or two. If no NFL team would give them a job until they were completely decimated by injuries, that is the proof they are nowhere near as good as Crawford or Bass.
 

DOUBLE WING

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Crawford and Bass are exponentially better than guys like Kearse and Irvin, both of whom were on the field in the 4th Quarter today. Its not about Selvie, its about the weakest link and we have had a steady diet of those on the field in critical moments - which is exactly BZ's point in this thread.

Based on what? What have those guys ever done in the NFL?
 

jnday

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So Bill Belichick could take a defense made up entirely of street free agents and beat Garrett's Cowboys?

Belichick overcomes injuries every year. Dallas has injuries every year , but it is used as an excuse because they can't overcome it. I would give Bill a chance in your situation and that situation would be much worse than the Cowboys have faced this year.
 

Kaiser

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Ratliff one of our best? Did you see him play tonight? Horrible, just horrible.
I give you Spencer but he is not the difference between being one of the worst D in league history and being a good or even an average D, and actually Selvie has been a great replacement for him.

I like Selvie a lot, but I think he is a great backup rather than a solid starter. I think Spencer's run defense is significantly better than Selvie's but it is kind of an apples to oranges comparison. Selvie has 39 tackles and 7 sacks this year (in 15 games) while Spencer had 95 tackles and 11 sacks in 14 games last year.
 

ScipioCowboy

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Do a google search on "National Football League" and click on the roster of each team for the year or two. If no NFL team would give them a job until they were completely decimated by injuries, that is the proof they are nowhere near as good as Crawford or Bass.

No, it's not. We don't know if Crawford or Bass would have any more success on the open market than the current players.

Case in point: Jerry felt so good about Quincy Carter he spent a second round draft pick on him. Would anyone else have spent a second round draft pick on Quincy Carter? Did he get another starting gig after he left Dallas?
 
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I'm not ready to throw in the towel on Garrett, yet, but I can't get my head around how horrendous the offense is playing. They don't have the injury excuse to lean on, it's mostly been game management , play-calling, and many underwhelming performances from Romo. What the heck is going on?
 

ScipioCowboy

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Also, I'd like to point out that injuries had nothing to do with calling only four run plays in the second half against Green Bay last week.

The good new is this: Garrett has a chance to change his narrative completely next week.
 

Kaiser

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No, it's not. We don't know if Crawford or Bass would have any more success on the open market than the current players.

Every GM in the NFL disagrees with you and voted with their contract dollars.

And Carter is a complete tangent. If Quincy is proof Jones can't evaluate QB talent then Tony Romo and Troy Aikman are proof that he can. It has absolutely nothing to do with the fact our DL is playing the backup to the backup to the backup to the original starter at times.
 

DOUBLE WING

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Earn a roster spot in training camp.

Lots of terrible players earn roster spots. That doesn't mean they're going to produce quality results. I'm not going to sit here and bemoan the loss of players who have never actually done anything in the NFL as if that's some sort of valid excuse for Garrett's mediocrity.
 

ScipioCowboy

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Every GM in the NFL disagrees with you and voted with their contract dollars.

And Carter is a complete tangent. If Quincy is proof Jones can't evaluate QB talent then Tony Romo and Troy Aikman are proof that he can. It has absolutely nothing to do with the fact our DL is playing the backup to the backup to the backup to the original starter at times.

That's not the argument. This was never about whether or not Jerry could evaluate talent. He's had his shares of hits and misses.

We're talking about proven NFL ability, and neither Bass nor Crawford have anymore proven ability than Selvie or Hayden. The purpose of the Carter analogy was to demonstrate that simply because Jerry values a certain player does not mean other teams value that player.
 

tecolote

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I like Selvie a lot, but I think he is a great backup rather than a solid starter. I think Spencer's run defense is significantly better than Selvie's but it is kind of an apples to oranges comparison. Selvie has 39 tackles and 7 sacks this year (in 15 games) while Spencer had 95 tackles and 11 sacks in 14 games last year.

Spencer is better than Selvie there is no doubt about that, but to be fair, Spencer played outside lb on a 3-4 and Selvie is a de on a 4-3. So it's not as simple to compare stats.
 
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