CFZ Do we actually have fans who believe Dak is Elite?

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I think all QB need a supporting team around them, don't kid yourself Brady has played with many outstanding players including HOF'ers who have been major contributors to his success and that of the team. Rodgers less talent around him but as you point out when GB put more into the defense that got that team over the hump. The one constant about football is it takes a team to win it, not one man. Media loves to focus on QB and while it is important position, it is also a position that relies on those around him to have success.

oh, I agree. I never have said otherwise. again, its what you accomplish when you are given the tools to play with. Brady turned it into 7 superbowls rings. Rodgers has had less talent around him (although I think that's over exagerated). but he did need a strong defense to get him over the hump. there is more than one way to get there....Elite QBs make it easier, but if that was the only pre-requisite, there would only be 3 or 4 teams winning superbowls during each decade.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Not really. Dak fits in the 6-14 category, and it is highly debateable as to where.

I mean realistically at this point its hard to even rank anyone.
Brady and Rodgers have left the top 5 discussion.
Stafford has left it.
Deshaun Watson has left it.
Lamar has left it.
Jalen Hurts has added himself to the discussion.
Josh Allen for the time being is still there but he hasn't played like a top 5 guy this year.
Of course Mahomes is there.

So then there's the young guys like Burrow, Herbert, Tua......

If someone wants to argue Dak is top 5 this season....I don't know how much they'd have to back that claim up since he missed 6 games but i'd probably say Burrow, Mahomes and Mahomes should be 3 of the consensus top 5......Maybe Geno and Goff would find themselves in the discussion?

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

I think you are arguing in circles....is there potential? that's the question. and that's what what all teams do....have players, that give them the opportunity and potential to win it!! or minimally get there.....

so is Allen not any good? he hasn't won anything. Is Herbert any good? he hasn't won anything. is Cousins any good? he hasn't won anything. is Jalen hurts any good? he hasn't won anything. so would you take any of them over Dak (as you have argued in the past), because they give you more potential to win it!!!!

so the question people ask and the observation that was made based on the OP's comment that he has the potential. he has shown he can be good. he has shown to have the ability....he just has to get over the hump. its not about having actually accomplished anything to be considered, because then most of the QBs in the league will be disqualified, some of whom you like more than Dak and give them more potential (all of the listed above included).....

sounds like you are arguing that wins/losses are a QB thing.... are you?

I didn't see the word "potential" in the post I replied to.

Talk to the posters that I replied to about that, not me.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

good enough to win >$40M a year off of Jerruh..........

 

[kskboys]

Not really?

Name your top 10 qbs.

Yes, really.

Sure, why not.

Mahomes
Allen
Herbert
Burrow
Rodgers

Now is where it gets dicey.

Cousins, Lamar, Stafford, Barbie, Hurts, Dak, Brady, Carr. In no particular order. Some will put Dak at 6, some at 14, and it's not necessarily wrong at either spot. It often depends on what sort of O you want to run, and having the brains to put the correct pieces around him.

 

[Doomsday101]

I know, right? I fight myself over Allen. One week I want to put him in as elite, the next I want to take him out.

I think Herbert needs a different OC. From what I see, too much is put on him.

If I have to overthink it then you are not elite. lol I think Allen is a top QB no doubt about it, Hebert book is still out on him but again very good QB. Putting them in the rarified air of Elite? Not yet

 

[Cowboys_22]

yep

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I didn't see the word "potential" in the post I replied to.

Talk to the posters that I replied to about that, not me.

OMG, for some one who continously argues and claims to know so much and is so smart, you can play really dumb sometimes...so if the word potential wasn't literally in the comment, you are going to dismiss it...is everything literally has to be spelled out for you!!! he literally said he is good enough to win with...... meaning he has the potential. everybody else got it, except the guy who claims he is smarter than everybody else...

I expect more from you. I think you once again, just arguing so you can win an argument.....you make less and less sense these days.....you are sinking to poopydog levels these days out of you spite for Dak.

 

[Doomsday101]

Yes, really.

Sure, why not.

Mahomes
Allen
Herbert
Burrow
Rodgers

Now is where it gets dicey.

Cousins, Lamar, Stafford, Barbie, Hurts, Dak, Brady, Carr. In no particular order. Some will put Dak at 6, some at 14, and it's not necessarily wrong at either spot. It often depends on what sort of O you want to run, and having the brains to put the correct pieces around him.

I would not agrue the list but I will say once you get to #6 that can fluctuate throughout the season

 

[kskboys]

I mean realistically at this point its hard to even rank anyone.
Brady and Rodgers have left the top 5 discussion.
Stafford has left it.
Deshaun Watson has left it.
Lamar has left it.
Jalen Hurts has added himself to the discussion.
Josh Allen for the time being is still there but he hasn't played like a top 5 guy this year.
Of course Mahomes is there.

So then there's the young guys like Burrow, Herbert, Tua......

If someone wants to argue Dak is top 5 this season....I don't know how much they'd have to back that claim up since he missed 6 games but i'd probably say Burrow, Mahomes and Mahomes should be 3 of the consensus top 5......Maybe Geno and Goff would find themselves in the discussion?

It's just so subjective at that point.

 

[kskboys]

I would not agrue the list but I will say once you get to #6 that can fluctuate throughout the season

Very good point.

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

OMG, for some one who continously argues and claims to know so much and is so smart, you can play really dumb sometimes...so if the word potential wasn't literally in the comment, you are going to dismiss it...is everything literally has to be spelled out for you!!! he literally said he is good enough to win with...... meaning he has the potential. everybody else got it, except the guy who claims he is smarter than everybody else...

I expect more from you. I think you once again, just arguing so you can win an argument.....you make less and less sense these days.....you are sinking to poopydog levels these days out of you spite for Dak.

It's not my job to try and figure out what someone meant to say. I just go by what they said.

I'll let you do that if you want. Some people don't like when others argue on their belief about what they really meant to say. Because you have no idea what they really meant to say. You're just projecting your own thoughts onto someone else words.

 

[Diehardblues]

We can dead this whole "elite" talk now. This whole stupid title of "elite" is so subjective. But we know the deal. You win a championship you're elite. If you don't? You're Romo and Phillip Rivers.

I’ve always defined Elite as Hall Of Fame potential or talent level. Which doesn’t have to include winning a championship.

 

[RS12]

Yes, really.

Sure, why not.

Mahomes
Allen
Herbert
Burrow
Rodgers

Now is where it gets dicey.

Cousins, Lamar, Stafford, Barbie, Hurts, Dak, Brady, Carr. In no particular order. Some will put Dak at 6, some at 14, and it's not necessarily wrong at either spot. It often depends on what sort of O you want to run, and having the brains to put the correct pieces around him.

I think Lawrence goes to the top of that second tier and maybe next year goes first tier. Besides sneaky good athleticism, his ability to throw darts outside the hash marks is as good as anybody. He is rising quickly IMO.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Well said.

At present, there are exactly 2 elite QBs in the NFL, Mahomes and Allen. Brady and Rodgers are no longer elite. Burrow is knocking on the door, as is Herbert.

allen and mahomes for sure. Burrow is knocking at the door and probably the next star....Herbert is an enigma. he has the physical tools, but given the support he has, he is up and down. not consistent enough yet. top 10 for sure.

 

[nate dizzle]

Nobody really believes that. If he played for Washington every single person who says that would call him a fraud.

Just laugh at them and move on.

This. All of it.

 

[kskboys]

I think Lawrence goes to the top of that second tier and maybe next year goes first tier. Besides sneaky good athleticism, his ability to throw darts outside the hash marks is as good as anybody. He is rising quickly IMO.

He desperately needed to get out from under Urban Meyer. He's been on the rise ever since.

 

[Ken]

I’ve been going to bat for him in recent years against the Dak Haks but in another thread been arguing with a fan I actually agree on many issues but he believes Prescott has become Elite and in Top 5 of QB’s in the league.

He even asked me what 5 QB’s are better. Which was an easy response. Prescott is arguably by most sound analysts and critics closer to a Top 10 QB, not Top 5. Which being in the next best group isn’t a bad place to be .

The argument stemmed from a basis narrative of his that Elite QB’s were a necessity to being a consistent contender in Cap era. Which is another argument within itself . There are exceptions to that rule as well. But the argument initiated with criticism of franchises with less playoff success this era. We actually agree to a point on that basis.

And then he said Dak has become Elite. Even saying that he had bashed him earlier in his career. Are there other fans who also believe he has become Elite? I thought besides the extremes on both sides of the Haks and Homers that most felt he was closer to Top 10 to above average . Enough to build around and hopefully have more success.

Like most franchises except for a handful who have an Elite QB, you have to build around average to above average QB’s. No shame in that . Anyway, curious where the vibe is at this time . Not interested in hearing from the extremes. Thanks

Only qbs i think are better than him are:

Mahomes
Allen
Burrow (i actually have to respect him, i didn't believe it until this year)


That's it.

Rodgers and Brady are just not as good as they used to be. I know people will say Herbert but I don't see it. Sure, he has immense talent but I haven't seen it consistently and he is just now getting into the playoffs for the first time.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

It's not my job to try and figure out what someone meant to say. I just go by what they said.

I'll let you do that if you want. Some people don't like when others argue on their belief about what they really meant to say. Because you have no idea what they really meant to say. You're just projecting your own thoughts onto someone else words.

OMG...you are so dense.... so just like my 5 year old, I will explain everything in itty bitty details for you so you can more easily digest and not have to infer anything. God forbid if you had to think! as a matter of fact I did explain it for you. he meant potential! there...I spelled it out for you, given your difficulty in comprehending a simple phrase.

and yet here you were yesterday calling a lot of people, accusing them of taking Dak over Dallas, were LITERALLY nobody has every said that. so how did you infer that without it literally being there and how was that your job!!!

come on dude. you are not as clever as you think you are.....you just pretend to be smart

 

[Diehardblues]

I know, right? I fight myself over Allen. One week I want to put him in as elite, the next I want to take him out.

I think Herbert needs a different OC. From what I see, too much is put on him.

Yes, but the talent level is there . Which just bubbles over with potential greatness from what we’ve already seen. As usual they still need a supporting cast. But the sky is the limit for those 2.