Does Trey Lance have a future at QB? Maybe, but think he legit could compete for RB1 in Oxnard

[conner01]

He ran a 4.69 at combine

 

[Chasing6]

He ran a 4.69 at combine

I am more concerned about him throwing than running.

 

[_sturt_]

He ran a 4.69 at combine

ESPN workout day his best was a 4.92.

247 workout day he ran 4.6

https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/stats/Trey-Lance-QB-NorthDakotaState


All I know is, you can catch me on a bad day, and my numbers could reflect any number of things... sickness being the obvious option, simple random muscle tightness on that day being another.

But you catch me on a good day, and there's no variable that allows my time to be dismissed as having some positive effect.

That to say, we generally do and should accept whatever a given player's best number is indicative of what he's capable of generating... because, empirically, he is capable of that.

 

[_sturt_]

I am more concerned about him throwing than running.

Yeah, ummm... there's about a half dozen threads where that's more the focus. Right? Just sayin.

 

[OmerV]

Pardon the guess implied by the question, but would it be accurate to say you've watched almost none of TL's runs from the season that catapulted him to the top of the first round?

And again... this isn't about what should be done. This is an off-season conversation about an imaginary preseason in which TL got to compete with the other RBs on the roster for the opportunity to get RB snaps... sorta kinda like maybe how one may have once imagined Deuce perhaps getting some WR snaps, right?

And again again... the person who first had responsibility to develop the kid, his HS coach, has commented more than once that he'd figured that TL's best position ultimately would prove to be RB. It's not that weird an idea, but of course, we're here in contrarian land, so who am I to act as-if surprised... hehehe.

I'm sure the 28 TD passes with no interceptions had nothing to do with his draft status ...

Of course the 49ers liked his athleticism and mobility, and sure it was a bonus to help his draft status, but he was not drafted as a RB, and Kyle Shanahan was not trying to draft the next Lamar Jackson where the offense would revolve around a running QB. His offense requires a passing QB.

 

[Chasing6]

I'm sure the 28 TD passes with no interceptions had nothing to do with his draft status ...

Of course the 49ers liked his athleticism and mobility, and sure it was a bonus to help his draft status, but he was not drafted as a RB, and Kyle Shanahan was not trying to draft the next Lamar Jackson where the offense would revolve around a running QB. His offense requires a passing QB.

I wonder why he had 54 rushing attempts and only 56 completions?

 

[_sturt_]

I'm sure the 28 TD passes with no interceptions had nothing to do with his draft status ...

Of course the 49ers liked his athleticism and mobility, and sure it was a bonus to help his draft status, but he was not drafted as a RB, and Kyle Shanahan was not trying to draft the next Lamar Jackson where the offense would revolve around a running QB. His offense requires a passing QB.

Seemingly deliberately avoids the actual point of the post that preceded it.

You've asserted that TL doesn't have the skill set to be envisioned as a potential RB. I offered reasons why that's uninformed, leading off with the plausibility that your assessment likely doesn't include having actually viewed the considerable number of running plays in the Trey Lance 2021 catalog.

Was it the major reason the Niners drafted him? Irrelevant to the point made. That it almost had to have helped add to his appeal, and thus elevated his draft stock is enough... I mean, who in his right mind is going to turn down drafting a legit dual-thread QB, recalling that when Lamar Jackson came out, he wasn't even regarded as being all that much of a passer, hence his lower draft slot. I don't have to disagree with your assertion that Shanahan's highest priority would be on passing, and I don't. Doesn't matter. The point made still stands.

 

[OmerV]

Seemingly deliberately avoids the actual point of the post that preceded it.

You've asserted that TL doesn't have the skill set to be envisioned as a potential RB. I offered reasons why that's uninformed, leading off with the plausibility that your assessment likely doesn't include having actually viewed the considerable number of running plays in the Trey Lance 2021 catalog.

Was it the major reason the Niners drafted him? Irrelevant to the point made. That it almost had to have helped add to his appeal, and thus elevated his draft stock is enough... I mean, who in his right mind is going to turn down drafting a legit dual-thread QB, recalling that when Lamar Jackson came out, he wasn't even regarded as being all that much of a passer, hence his lower draft slot. I don't have to disagree with your assertion that Shanahan's highest priority would be on passing, and I don't. Doesn't matter. The point made still stands.

I didn't say he doesn't have talent as a runner, I'm saying the the talents for a Running Back are different than for a running QB. Again, a QB generally has a spread out defense to maneuver in because the QB is either running because he is scrambling on a pass play, running a designed QB run that often is out of the look of a pass play, rollouts, read/options where the QB can run, pass or handoff depending on what he sees, rollouts ... A RB has to be able to pound the ball up the middle as well has maneuver in open field. He also has to block and catch passes. He takes a lot more hits than a QB, and is more often hit by multiple tacklers. It's just not the same thing.

By the way, I find it funny you now say his running not being a major part of why he was drafted is irrelevant to the point you were making when you previously argued that his running is what "catapulted him to the top of the first round".

 

[OmerV]

I wonder why he had 54 rushing attempts and only 56 completions?

Low completion % and a young QB who hadn't yet learned patience in the pocket at the NFL level.

That's not to say Shanahan had no plans to use Lance's legs at all, but that was not going to be the focus of his offense. That has never been the focus of one of his offenses, more of his dad who he learned from

 

[_sturt_]

I'm aware that he went to NDSU because they were the only ones willing to commit to giving him a shot at QB. But that's all I'm aware of, and a quick survey of recruiting sites seems to indicate he didn't even go on any official visits. Did he himself say that he was told he would play safety? Because I'd heard nothing that specific. I'm only aware that his HS coach said he always thought TL's position in college would be RB because his legs were his best attribute.

I doubt you intended it as a shot, but NDSU, let's give them credit, is more than just "a good FCS school." They are the irrefutable most accomplished FCS program ever. "Certainly not power 5 competition" is a true statement. But what a lot of people miss is that there are ways to run statistical comparisons even between FBS and FCS teams. The Sagarin Ratings have been published for decades, and there are others who have done similar work.

For 2019, Lance's big year at NDSU, only 24 members of autonomous conferences rated higher than NDSU, and only 6 members of non-autonomous conferences. (Personal pet peeve... we call them "power" conferences, when in fact, only a handful of any given conference given that label actually plot out statistically better than the best "group of" conferences... complete ESPN marketing label that unfortunately stuck decades ago, making the pursuit of due regard for the Boise States of the world undeservingly more difficult.) https://sagarin.usatoday.com/2019-2/2019-2/college-football-team-ratings-2019/

Your point is well taken on this, too, but most of the athletes that any NFL player played against in college... those from FBS autonomous conference members, too... will never play a down of NFL football. Perhaps this is why there are so many NFL (and NBA) busts even among those who go on the first and second day. It's just hard to assess these guys until you get them into an NFL camp.

Well, that, and the fact that these are kids transitioning into becoming adults. There's so much going on physically and cognitively and emotionally/psychologically and socially.

I know, I know... I'm quoting myself, but it's for reason... this popped up just now on my Twitter feed, and I had to break away for just a minute and enjoy a laugh with some friends here...

 

[_sturt_]

By the way, I find it funny you now say his running not being a major part of why he was drafted is irrelevant to the point you were making when you previously argued that his running is what "catapulted him to the top of the first round".

Funny?

I believe his legs were a major part of why he was drafted as high as he was, yes.

Problem with that?

It's routinely acknowledged that the Niners probably drafted TL higher than what the evidence suggested they should. As far as I've read, most don't think his arm on its own would have gotten him that high. His legs... paired with how Lamar Jackson surprised everyone with his other qualities developed fairly rapidly... helped significantly in "catapulting him to the top of the first round." Absolutely. Show me where that's wrong.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

And FWIW if you applauded Elliott being signed but are concerned if Lance is fast enough to play RB, well, LOL..............

I'm not sure anyone "applauded".

Most people are like...well...there ya go.

At least the non-haters. Haters have a very different response.

 

[_sturt_]

A RB has to be able to pound the ball up the middle as well has maneuver in open field. He also has to block and catch passes. He takes a lot more hits than a QB, and is more often hit by multiple tacklers. It's just not the same thing.

If you bother to go back and look, I think I was altogether even-handed in my assessment of an imaginary world where TL gets a look in Oxnard at RB... I didn't overly hype the positives, didn't avoid the potential negatives.

If you bother to go back and look... and given that you still don't indicate you've actually eyeballed the dozens upon dozens of clips available to us all (and I give you credit for not lying about it, btw)... my assessment that he would legitimately be able to compete for the #1 RB slot on the roster... compete... based on what we know... remains stout.

 

[OmerV]

Funny?

I believe his legs were a major part of why he was drafted as high as he was, yes.

Problem with that?

You're flip flopping around. First his running was what got him drafted high in the first round. Then it was that the 49ers not drafting him primarily because of running is irrelevant. Now his legs are a major part of why his was drafted high.

In any case, I never said his mobility wan't a factor teams looked at when drafting, but it was not, as you originally said, what got him drafted high. The passing without turning the ball over was the focus, and the running was a bonus.

In any case, let's move on from that. My overriding point is it's not realistic to suggest the role of running QB equates to the role of RB in a typical NFL offense. Frankly, if Lance were a RB I think at best he would be a role player, and not a RB for all situations. Obviously if he made that move he would have the chance to prove me wrong, but we certainly can't pretend he's already shown what he would need to be a more consistent player at RB

 

[OmerV]

If you bother to go back and look, I think I was altogether even-handed in my assessment of an imaginary world where TL gets a look in Oxnard at RB... I didn't overly hype the positives, didn't avoid the potential negatives.

If you bother to go back and look... and given that you still don't indicate you've actually eyeballed the dozens upon dozens of clips available to us all (and I give you credit for not lying about it, btw)... my assessment that he would legitimately be able to compete for the #1 RB slot on the roster... compete... based on what we know... remains stout.

You said he has the same skill set as Emmitt Smith

 

[Chasing6]

Low completion % and a young QB who hadn't yet learned patience in the pocket at the NFL level.

That's not to say Shanahan had no plans to use Lance's legs at all, but that was not going to be the focus of his offense. That has never been the focus of one of his offenses, more of his dad who he learned from

I would bet at least half those runs are, panicked, could not find an open receiver, so he ran.

 

[5Stars]

I would bet at least half those runs are, panicked, could not find an open receiver, so he ran.

Well, since you like to dog crap him, can you say anything about his family that upsets you? I know you want to. smfh.

 

[Chasing6]

... if given that opportunity.

Which he won't be, because he'll be getting QB snaps. I get it.

When I watch this kid play snap after snap after snap on YouTube... all of his NDSU plays, all of his 49ers plays... I come away believing it's arguable that he could be someone's QB#1 after giving some time to mature and develop.

Maybe.

Not a big fan of his throwing motion--seems a little loose, though no one's asked me to be their HS QB coach, let alone an NFL one, so what do I know. Seems to have some long ball touch, actually, yet on shorter throws, a common theme seems to be that he's not precise consistently, and his receivers too often have to adjust to his passes in a way that limits their YAC. Will be interesting to see where his strengths and weaknesses lie after this preseason.

But in a parallel universe where Trey Lance is given the chance to be #1 RB in DAL?

I'm not going to say he absolutely would win that camp position battle, but I'm definitely persuaded he's make it a real contest. Nah, he's not going to break ankles the way that Pollard could, and probably not even to the degree that Rico can. But he's got two things, nay three, going for him:

(1) He may not make defenders miss by grasping for air, but he has that same skill that Emmitt had, that he has just a little bit of instinctive wiggle that regularly keeps defenders from hitting him square, and so they end up able to make some contact, but routinely bounce off.

(2) Even if you get your hands on him, he's just damn tough to bring down unless you've got help.

(3) If he's allowed to get to fifth gear with open field in front of him, you better hope you have a CB that has angle so he can run him down... but otherwise forget it... he's one of the fastest in the NFL

Just my opinion, but an informed one, having spent a lot of time over the last couple of days watching the tape.

Well that is what his HS coach said back in the day. A little to late for that. Also a little to late to be a safety like every College Football team that analyzed him at camp thought.

 

[conner01]

I am more concerned about him throwing than running.

That’s what he’s paid to do lol to me his biggest issue is really reading and decision making. He was raw coming out and hopefully he’s learned a lot about the mental part of the position. Arm talent gets a lot of attention but the mental part separates the good ones from the bad ones

 

[Chasing6]

That’s what he’s paid to do lol to me his biggest issue is really reading and decision making. He was raw coming out and hopefully he’s learned a lot about the mental part of the position. Arm talent gets a lot of attention but the mental part separates the good ones from the bad ones

And you only get that through repetition. You don't get that by holding a clipboard.