Doug Free - LT

[Avenging Hayseed]

Offensive line play now more than ever is all about finding large men, strong men, who have the ability and agility to MOVE , to slide, in otherwords they are actually athletic. The defenders they are facing athletically are on a whole nuther level than they were in the past.

Its not about just finding the biggest BLOB you can and calling it good...LOL All one needs to do is take a look at some of the O lines that Superbowl winning teams have been rolling out lately. The Giants, The Colts, the Patriots in multiple Superbowls. Those guys are FAIRLY strong at the point of attack but they are VERY athletic too. They have the ability to slide over and help a fellow lineman IN A HURRY when faced with a jailbreak situation. You have to have ATHLETES to do that, 5 guys that are athletic enuff to perform as one unit.

Just watch the Giants run game. You will see lineman taking out second level defenders all the time. Thats what I wanna see with our team, I wanna see it because thats what wins Superbowls.

 

[Doomsday101]

Free did a heck of a job don't get me wrong but I don't trust him enough to play him a season at LT without more evidence and Flo and Hamlin have to go this season. Losing those 2 contracts is as good as a big signing.


My hope is that we manage to keep our 1st round pick somehow and get Gaither but I doubt Baltimore will let him walk for anything less.

I'm not looking to release Flo but I would have Free competing aginst Flo during training camp at LT. I think before you release a sure thing you better make sure his replacement can do just as well or better.

I do think it is a big unfair for some to judge him at LT based on the vikes game considering he was forced from the right side where he had been working for 7 games and then in a flash goes to the left side vs one of the top pass rushers in Allen.

It is not that easy moving from one side to the other because the foot work on right side is opposite to that of the left side had Free been able to get some work in at the left side during the week I think he would have done a good job

 

[theogt]

I am one of the biggest Doug Free fans (have been since before that draft -- ask Bob). But people need to get off the "one sack" statistic. That's incredibly misleading, just like judging a defensive back solely by INTs. The truth of the matter is that Free gave up a lot of QB pressures. It's because of Tony that those didn't convert to sacks.

Statistically (when considering a combination of sacks, QB hits, pressures, and penalties), Gaither has been better over the past two years than Free was in 2009. And that's despite Gaither actually playing left tackle, where sacks, hits, and pressures are typically inflated.

If the choice were simply Gaither vs. Free, I don't see how anyone could choose Free based on the statistics (none of us actually put in the film study to make a judgment one way or the other, so don't bother making the argument). The problem is that it's not just simply Gaither vs. Free. Obviously Gaither carries a higher price. And I don't think his statistical edge really merits a significantly higher price, particularly considering that Free will get better with playing time.

 

[Avenging Hayseed]

I am one of the biggest Doug Free fans (have been since before that draft -- ask Bob). But people need to get off the "one sack" statistic. That's incredibly misleading, just like judging a defensive back solely by INTs. The truth of the matter is that Free gave up a lot of QB pressures. It's because of Tony that those didn't convert to sacks.

Statistically (when considering a combination of sacks, QB hits, pressures, and penalties), Gaither has been better over the past two years than Free was in 2009. And that's despite Gaither actually playing left tackle, where sacks, hits, and pressures are typically inflated.

If the choice were simply Gaither vs. Free, I don't see how anyone could choose Free based on the statistics (none of us actually put in the film study to make a judgment one way or the other, so don't bother making the argument). The problem is that it's not just simply Gaither vs. Free. Obviously Gaither carries a higher price. And I don't think his statistical edge really merits a significantly higher price, particularly considering that Free will get better with playing time.

Excellent post. And even though I am a big believer in Free I agree with much of what you posted. Thing is, like you, I think that Free will get better with more playing time and will at least be as good as Gaither, probably better. But without giving up high compensation.

 

[CATCH17]

I am one of the biggest Doug Free fans (have been since before that draft -- ask Bob). But people need to get off the "one sack" statistic. That's incredibly misleading, just like judging a defensive back solely by INTs. The truth of the matter is that Free gave up a lot of QB pressures. It's because of Tony that those didn't convert to sacks.

Statistically (when considering a combination of sacks, QB hits, pressures, and penalties), Gaither has been better over the past two years than Free was in 2009. And that's despite Gaither actually playing left tackle, where sacks, hits, and pressures are typically inflated.

If the choice were simply Gaither vs. Free, I don't see how anyone could choose Free based on the statistics (none of us actually put in the film study to make a judgment one way or the other, so don't bother making the argument). The problem is that it's not just simply Gaither vs. Free. Obviously Gaither carries a higher price. And I don't think his statistical edge really merits a significantly higher price, particularly considering that Free will get better with playing time.

theogt for 3. Good post.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I am one of the biggest Doug Free fans (have been since before that draft -- ask Bob). But people need to get off the "one sack" statistic. That's incredibly misleading, just like judging a defensive back solely by INTs. The truth of the matter is that Free gave up a lot of QB pressures. It's because of Tony that those didn't convert to sacks.

Statistically (when considering a combination of sacks, QB hits, pressures, and penalties), Gaither has been better over the past two years than Free was in 2009. And that's despite Gaither actually playing left tackle, where sacks, hits, and pressures are typically inflated.

If the choice were simply Gaither vs. Free, I don't see how anyone could choose Free based on the statistics (none of us actually put in the film study to make a judgment one way or the other, so don't bother making the argument). The problem is that it's not just simply Gaither vs. Free. Obviously Gaither carries a higher price. And I don't think his statistical edge really merits a significantly higher price, particularly considering that Free will get better with playing time.

your going by pff again?

 

[Nightshade]

Offensive line play now more than ever is all about finding large men, strong men, who have the ability and agility to MOVE , to slide, in otherwords they are actually athletic. The defenders they are facing athletically are on a whole nuther level than they were in the past.

Its not about just finding the biggest BLOB you can and calling it good...LOL All one needs to do is take a look at some of the O lines that Superbowl winning teams have been rolling out lately. The Giants, The Colts, the Patriots in multiple Superbowls. Those guys are FAIRLY strong at the point of attack but they are VERY athletic too. They have the ability to slide over and help a fellow lineman IN A HURRY when faced with a jailbreak situation. You have to have ATHLETES to do that, 5 guys that are athletic enuff to perform as one unit.

Just watch the Giants run game. You will see lineman taking out second level defenders all the time. Thats what I wanna see with our team, I wanna see it because thats what wins Superbowls.

 

[CF74]

I'm concerned and want insurance via the draft. He's mobile and quick but lacks upper body strength to hold down the LT spot for a full season imo. I just don't believe he can MAN the spot. I also believe a healthy Colombo is better on the right side but I wouldn't be at all upset to see Free take over the rt..

 

[theogt]

I'm concerned and want insurance via the draft. He's mobile and quick but lacks upper body strength to hold down the LT spot for a full season imo. I just don't believe he can MAN the spot. I also believe a healthy Colombo is better on the right side but I wouldn't be at all upset to see Free take over the rt..

Strong enough for the right side, but not for the left?

That's odd.

 

[21Savage]

Strong enough for the right side, but not for the left?

That's odd.

Isn't it funny. The story on Free was always that he had great feet for the left but not the strength to handle the right side. That's why we had Mcquistan as the swing tackle on game days even though Free was the better option at LT.

Then he gets an opportunity to play and proves himself out of position, so to speak. So now, he's being pigeon holed as a RT and not a LT . Pessimism is eternal

 

[casmith07]

I'm concerned and want insurance via the draft. He's mobile and quick but lacks upper body strength to hold down the LT spot for a full season imo. I just don't believe he can MAN the spot. I also believe a healthy Colombo is better on the right side but I wouldn't be at all upset to see Free take over the rt..

Strong enough for the right side, but not for the left?

That's odd.

Isn't it funny. The story on Free was always that he had great feet for the left but not the strength to handle the right side. That's why we had Mcquistan as the swing tackle on game days even though Free was the better option at LT.

Then he gets an opportunity to play and proves himself out of position, so to speak. So now, he's being pigeon holed as a RT and not a LT . Pessimism is eternal

Hey, at least all three of you can agree that the right idea is to build through the draft, and not giving up a 1st plus the entire salary cap for Jared Gaither.

 

[Hostile]

your going by pff again?

Pff?

Splain me mang.

 

[theogt]

Pff?

Splain me mang.

Profootballfocus.com is an amateur website that charts every game and compiles the statistics. That guy doesn't like them because he thinks their statistics are inaccurate. Of course, he hasn't actually been able to prove they're inaccurate or even come up with a semi-coherent argument as to why they're unreliable. In all honesty, he doesn't like them because the statistics often disagree with his amateur football analysis.

 

[Hostile]

Profootballfocus.com is an amateur website that charts every game and compiles the statistics. That guy doesn't like them because he thinks their statistics are inaccurate. Of course, he hasn't actually been able to prove they're inaccurate or even come up with a semi-coherent argument as to why they're unreliable. In all honesty, he doesn't like them because the statistics often disagree with his amateur football analysis.

Thanks for the 411. I was more confused than I normally am. In other words...dangerous to myself and others.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Pff?

Splain me mang.

What theo said. Apparently he doesnt think that pulling three random players and showing that the stats from them were of by 20 to 100% compared to STATS LLC, the industry standard, is significant. % diff being the basic {200 * (Xsub2 - Xsub1)}/(xsub1 + xsub2).

In other words the 25 pressures that pff has can be anywhere from 5 to 50 at STATS LLC.

In short its pretty obvious that they are worthless. Just to give you an idea, they said Jarius Byrd only had one PD last year whereas STATS had him at 11. Oh and he also uses them to delude himself into thinking Hamlin is a top safety.

Theo says thats not a coherent argument. I say its only incoherent if youre an idiot.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Profootballfocus.com is an amateur website that charts every game and compiles the statistics. That guy doesn't like them because he thinks their statistics are inaccurate. Of course, he hasn't actually been able to prove they're inaccurate or even come up with a semi-coherent argument as to why they're unreliable. In all honesty, he doesn't like them because the statistics often disagree with his amateur football analysis.

:laugh2:

 

[theogt]

:laugh2:

Not *that* kinda of amateur website, Bob.

 

[jrumann59]

Huh? Dont leave us hanging.

Many ravens prognosticators love gaither as a player they question his toughness and feel he is more of a right tackle then a left tackle and the only reason he was at left this year is because they weren't ready to put Oher at left. When Gaither got hurt they moved Oher to the left and realized they had another Ogden in Oher and really want to off load Gaither before it becomes a problem, because Gaither believes he is a LT while the Ravens if they do keep him will make him a RT.

I think Gaither is a good player but I don't think he is a true LT, I would compare his skills to Bigg's ability to play LT, could it work sure but in the long term he isn't that good against great pass rushers.

 

[DallasDW00ds0n]

I am one of the biggest Doug Free fans (have been since before that draft -- ask Bob). But people need to get off the "one sack" statistic. That's incredibly misleading, just like judging a defensive back solely by INTs. The truth of the matter is that Free gave up a lot of QB pressures. It's because of Tony that those didn't convert to sacks.

Statistically (when considering a combination of sacks, QB hits, pressures, and penalties), Gaither has been better over the past two years than Free was in 2009. And that's despite Gaither actually playing left tackle, where sacks, hits, and pressures are typically inflated.

If the choice were simply Gaither vs. Free, I don't see how anyone could choose Free based on the statistics (none of us actually put in the film study to make a judgment one way or the other, so don't bother making the argument). The problem is that it's not just simply Gaither vs. Free. Obviously Gaither carries a higher price. And I don't think his statistical edge really merits a significantly higher price, particularly considering that Free will get better with playing time.

I agree.

 

[Bleu Star]

Im sorry but I dont see why they keep saying Doug Free is the next guy were banking on at LT.

I liked Free at RT but he didnt come up big at LT when he played the part.

IMO we need to get Gaither or draft a LT in the first round this year. I think LT is a franchise position and I just dont believe Free is our Franchise guy.

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3307774&postcount=13

Watch the video.