Ellis and Parcells in shouting match?

ABQCOWBOY

Regular Joe....
Messages
58,929
Reaction score
27,716
Charles said:
Greg Ellis = Freddy Mitchell - (minus) the Fluff.

He's a 1st RD pick that didn't live up to his expectations. Players drafted that high are expected to rise to the top and perform regardless of scheme. Ellis never consistently commanded a double team even when he was arguably the best Dline before Glover sign on. He's an average player, with great work ethic and exceptional off field intangibles. His contract reflexs so...........

We need play-makers. AB in his short span made more plays that Ellis did. I can understand his out burst. Ellis IMHO hasn't done anything to demand a scheme that show-cases his average skills. Ellis doesn't have any aspect of the game in which he truly excells. He good against the run, but doesn't make plays behind the line of scrimmage. He's an average pass rusher. That is a typical back-up type player. I think Cowboy fans have overatted the guy for far too long.

I never complained about him because there was noone good enough to take his gig, but it appears he's looking over his shoulder. Thats a good thing because it means we might have some talent better that Ellis.

The best Ellis can do it shut up, get to camp, out right win the job in any scheme/or role and proves to the Coaching staff and fans that he's worth a 1st RD pick.

If not,,, goodbye.........I like Flozell's chances against Ellis any day and twice on Sunday if we were to meet down the road.

This is a good sign for our team. Solid players complaining, I hope it lights a fire in his belly.

What? This is not correct at all. First of all, Ellis was drafted by the Cowboys to be a solid player, team leader and represent Dallas in a positive light. He was not drafted to be Charles Haley.

Tell you what, lets cut him and see how long this guy is out of a job. Anybody who can consistantly post 8 to 10 sacks in this league, play the run strong and be a team leader who can stay out of the headlines will have a place in this league. They will also get paid to do it.
 

InmanRoshi

Zone Scribe
Messages
18,334
Reaction score
90
ABQCOWBOY said:
Perhaps, but if this is the case, then these guys need to be given the opportunity to be moved. Now is the time for the team to work out trades. Not after TC has already started.

Once again, people are being too black and white with this 3-4 vs. 4-3. We're likely to use a mixture of even and odd sets, and its likely to be a work in progress as to how much we use of each until things play out in real time action. It would be a very, very, very foolish move to remove flexibility when the players haven't even put on pads yet and so many things are still yet to be determined.
 

Alexander

What's it going to be then, eh?
Messages
62,482
Reaction score
67,294
Mash said:
But....I think Parcells could of dealt with this better and with more respect.....

Did Coach Parcells ever tell him he was no longer a starter?

The coach wants the defensive system he wants.

If Ellis won't even try and is griping, send him packing.

But I guess most fans want nice and happy players rather than the best players for the job.

If Ellis does not want to even try, then leave. I guess he is taking that advice.

I just got nauseated when I see fans whining about "nice guys" like Ellis (and the same thing happened with Coakley) getting the shaft and complaining because our coach does not kiss their backsides.
 

Chocolate Lab

Run-loving Dino
Messages
37,107
Reaction score
11,452
Charles said:
Greg Ellis = Freddy Mitchell - (minus) the Fluff.

He's a 1st RD pick that didn't live up to his expectations. Players drafted that high are expected to rise to the top and perform regardless of scheme. Ellis never consistently commanded a double team even when he was arguably the best Dline before Glover sign on. He's an average player, with great work ethic and exceptional off field intangibles. His contract reflexs so...........

We need play-makers. AB in his short span made more plays that Ellis did. I can understand his out burst. Ellis IMHO hasn't done anything to demand a scheme that show-cases his average skills. Ellis doesn't have any aspect of the game in which he truly excells. He good against the run, but doesn't make plays behind the line of scrimmage. He's an average pass rusher. That is a typical back-up type player. I think Cowboy fans have overatted the guy for far too long.

I never complained about him because there was noone good enough to take his gig, but it appears he's looking over his shoulder. Thats a good thing because it means we might have some talent better that Ellis.

The best Ellis can do it shut up, get to camp, out right win the job in any scheme/or role and proves to the Coaching staff and fans that he's worth a 1st RD pick.

If not,,, goodbye.........I like Flozell's chances against Ellis any day and twice on Sunday if we were to meet down the road.

This is a good sign for our team. Solid players complaining, I hope it lights a fire in his belly.

Wow... You have to be kidding on several fronts. AB's actions are understandable because you think he had more talent? Ellis has produced more for this franchise than AB ever thought about.

And to compare him to Freddie Mitchell, a buffoon who repeatedly embarrassed his team... That's amazing you could think that.

Maybe Inman is right and Greg isn't worth "showcasing". I agree, he's not some superstar game changer all by himself. But to me, that's not even the issue. The question to me is, why can't you just have a mature man-to-man talk with one of your best professionals and team leaders before it turns into this? This reminds me of when Ekuban found out he wasn't active that day when his jersey wasn't in his locker. Are you telling me you can't somehow communicate to a player that he isn't active? And the fact that Ekuban didn't live up to expectations as a player is irrelevant IMO.
 

jbz64

Active Member
Messages
183
Reaction score
35
I agree. He was the 8th overall pick and all he has been is a solid but not great player. A top ten pick should have more impact. How many Pro Bowls has he made? I would trade him for Walker or a 2nd or 3rd round pick.
 

Trophy#6

New Member
Messages
172
Reaction score
0
Well yknow what...men don't sit around and have tea, discussing the problems, they have it out. This is healthy in all respects. It's better then letting something boil to the point of no return, by silence. And it also shows to the rest of the team that Parcells is approachable, and when you do approach him he won't be a puss about it. Just by him yelling back shows me the respect he has for Ellis....he did not immediatly dismiss him like he very well could have.

Parcelss repsects men, not little boys. He wants people to challange him, because not only does it show that they're paying attention, it opens up other possiblities for a coach like Parcells who is willing to listen.

That was the problem with Bryant, he did it out in the open, no respect for the coach/player relationship...Ellis on the other hand, went to him privatly away from the team. But aside from the Coach/QB sideline arguing, that I think is healthy, what other players have ever challanged him on the sidelines? Has Keyshawn? Has anyone, and lived to talk about it the next spring with the same team? Bottom line, Ellis did this in the coaches office,..his job is safe I believe. Infact, his value may have even risen in Coach Parcells' eyes. Perhaps even, this is exactly what Parcells has been trying to get out of Ellis...cause if one thing the guy has lacked in his career, I think it's full-on passion...which Parcells has always been able to bring out of his best players...so perhaps Ellis was a target of Bill's and this was something Bill was just waiting and hoping for. Now wouldn't it be something if Ellis takes this all to heart and comes out kicking butt this next year??

Sometimes you have to add a few logs to turn a fireplace into a burning infernal, and not many tend the fire quite as well as Bill does.
 

dmq

If I'm so pretty, why am I available?
Messages
7,436
Reaction score
941
What do people think Ellis could command in a trade?
 

Doomsday101

Well-Known Member
Messages
107,762
Reaction score
39,034
Personally I think Ellis will remain on the team and his future with the team will come down to how well he adjust to what the defense is trying to do.
 

InmanRoshi

Zone Scribe
Messages
18,334
Reaction score
90
Alexander said:
I just got nauseated when I see fans whining about "nice guys" like Ellis (and the same thing happened with Coakley) getting the shaft and complaining because our coach does not kiss their backsides.

Its a testament to our poor talent aquisition when a player like Greg Ellis thinks his talents need to be catered to. He's a big dog on this team, but on a championship caliber defense like New Englands or Carolina's he's a just a nice, little cog.
 

Alexander

What's it going to be then, eh?
Messages
62,482
Reaction score
67,294
Outlaw Heroes said:
if Ellis is sent out of town on a rail and what comes back is a bag of tees, then Parcells will deserve any criticism he gets.

So what you are saying is that unless we get what we fans think is "fair" in trade, Coach Parcells gets the villagers with the torches and pitchfork treatment?

What is "fair value"?

I thought we got what we could with Antonio Bryant. Most fans think we got ripped off because we only received Morgan.

Fact is, we overestimate the value and ability of the players we have. Ellis, while being our sack leader, is a slightly above average DE. He is not especially a good pass rusher, nor is he an anchor against the run.

He is just solid.

But solid players don't fetch the market value I think many of us think he should, whether that be a first round choice, or an All Pro player in return.

If players like Edgerrin James and Shaun Alexander cannot fetch even 2nd round draft choices on draft day, how on earth should we expect more for an end like Ellis?

It's one thing to allow ego to cause one to lose one's cool momentarily. It's another thing entirely to rush a player's exit, on pain of not getting market value, in order to vindicate one's ego. Let's hope that doesn't happen (and, in truth, I have no reason to believe that it will).

So again, what is the consensus on Greg's "market value".

I would love to hear what most of us think that is.
 

ABQCOWBOY

Regular Joe....
Messages
58,929
Reaction score
27,716
InmanRoshi said:
Once again, people are being too black and white with this 3-4 vs. 4-3. We're likely to use a mixture of even and odd sets, and its likely to be a work in progress as to how much we use of each until things play out in real time action. It would be a very, very, very foolish move to remove flexibility when the players haven't even put on pads yet and so many things are still yet to be determined.

LOL... really. And exactly who's going to buy into that load of rubbish. The problem here is that players who are not suited to playing a 34 are not going to buy off on that. There market value is finite. That's the problem. It's all well and good to say, "Lets just all get along" but the truth is that as time goes on, we will eventually play one or the other as a base. The two seasons it takes to get to a point where we can play a 34 consistantly will be at the expense of players like Ellis. What's left for him at that time? This whole black and white thing is a nice little push shot but it doesn't hold water. Black, white or blury gray, the bottom line is that this is still a business. For players like Ellis, standing still, shutting up and going along with the party line is not good business.
 

Alexander

What's it going to be then, eh?
Messages
62,482
Reaction score
67,294
ABQCOWBOY said:
the bottom line is that this is still a business.

It is a business. For management and the player.

But if a trade occurs, I am sure popular opinion will paint Coach Parcells as the villain and Ellis as the victim.

For players like Ellis, standing still, shutting up and going along with the party line is not good business.

It also is not good business for a boss (Parcells) to go about his duties of running a team with players that are not with the program. Particularly if they are veterans that young players would look up to.
 

Next_years_Champs

New Member
Messages
833
Reaction score
0
InmanRoshi said:
Its a testament to our poor talent aquisition when a player like Greg Ellis thinks his talents need to be catered to. He's a big dog on this team, but on a championship caliber defense like New Englands or Carolina's he's a just a nice, little cog.


Bammmm!!!!!!!!
:hammer:
 

Mash

Active Member
Messages
4,062
Reaction score
0
IMHO Ellis is a very good run stuffer for a DE...and rarely makes mistakes....but he is a below average pass rusher because the doesn't have the speed to turn the corner.

Good player who gave all he had for this team.....
 

ABQCOWBOY

Regular Joe....
Messages
58,929
Reaction score
27,716
jbz64 said:
I agree. He was the 8th overall pick and all he has been is a solid but not great player. A top ten pick should have more impact. How many Pro Bowls has he made? I would trade him for Walker or a 2nd or 3rd round pick.

Well, I think the problem is that we're trying to implicate Ellis' draft selection is something that he should have control over. Listen, it's not his fault that we elected to draft him that high. When he was selected, many felt as if that was a reach for him. We had an opportunity to take Moss. I've seen it time and again, on this board, advocating Ellis over Moss because of the fact that Ellis was a team leader and a solid guy, top to bottom. Now, were trying to say, and I'm not say you specifically, but collectively, that he hasn't lived up to expectations? Well, I don't agree but no matter. He is what he is. What's more, he is what his draft profile suggested he would be. If there is issue over his draft status, that fault lies at the feet of the Club.

I suspect that Jerry will be involved with this before it's all said and done. I just have that feeling.
 

InmanRoshi

Zone Scribe
Messages
18,334
Reaction score
90
Mash said:
IMHO Ellis is a very good run stuffer for a DE...and rarely makes mistakes....but he is a below average pass rusher because the doesn't have the speed to turn the corner

Sounds like a good fit for the 3-4.
 

Alexander

What's it going to be then, eh?
Messages
62,482
Reaction score
67,294
InmanRoshi said:
Its a testament to our poor talent aquisition when a player like Greg Ellis thinks his talents need to be catered to. He's a big dog on this team, but on a championship caliber defense like New Englands or Carolina's he's a just a nice, little cog.

I completely agree.

Greg Ellis is not an All Pro.

Neither was Antonio Bryant, Troy Hambrick or Pete Hunter.

Until you are, shut the piehole and know your role.

If you don't, goodbye.
 

Mash

Active Member
Messages
4,062
Reaction score
0
here we go.......We all complained the Ellis never had any support....now he gets in a shouting match with Parcells and Ellis is a bum who wouldn't start on a good defence......

I'm not a big fan of Ellis....but the years of reading post on how Ellis needs better players around him instead of the likes of Wiley and Ek and there were even posts on that he was better the Kearse.

Now he is a bum because he questioned Big old Bill..........oh my....
 

Doomsday101

Well-Known Member
Messages
107,762
Reaction score
39,034
Alexander said:
So why isn't he giving his all right now?

So who is to say he is not? I think more is being made of this than what there really is. I don't expect Dallas to trade Ellis and I think Ellis will give his best as always. And we go from there either he shows he can do the job or not.
 
Top