ESPN: Barber v. Jones

[mschmidt64]

I understood, I just thought it was narrow. That 9-2 mark comes because Dallas was scoring TDs - not necessarily because it was Marion Barber who was scoring them. And since he's our goalline back, clearly he's going to have the advantage there.

Yes, but at the same time, it wasn't Jones doing the vital scoring of the TDs.

So how can you link our chances to his success?

Maybe "anybody" could have scored those TDs, which are so important for Dallas to get to win, but it wasn't Jones one way or the other.

Therefore he wasn't the "main threat" if Dallas had "any chance of winning."

 

[Dhragon]

And one year, Troy Hambrick put up a higher ypc than Emmitt did (5.1 ypc in 2001), in a backup role... then he became the starter, and his ypc average went in the toilet (3.5 ypc in 2003)...

The moral to this story is the job of the backup running back can be a wee bit easier than the job of the starter...

Personally, I like having both guys on the team, they complement each other, but those who keep insisting that Marion is a better running back than Julius is are essentially saying that their talent evaluation skills are superior to those of Bill Parcells, a notion that I find laughable...

Julius Jones is the better running back of the two, and I am confident he'll get the starter's carries this coming season, barring injury...

The fact that anyone can think Bill is infallible on his talent evaluations is what I find laughable. Jacob Rogers, Peterson, and pretty much ANY o-lineman he has proven inept at. Why can't he be anything less than perfect when it comes to RB evaluations?

Sure, Bill has a better chance being right about evaluations than any schmoe on here. But he WILL be wrong on some of them. Julius may or may not be one of those.

I tend to think Julius might very well prove himself this coming year. If he can regain his rookie form, he'll blow MBIII away. But to base your whole argument that everyone's opinion is worthless just because it disagrees with Bill Parcell's is silly.

 

[CrazyCowboy]

Stop with the fantasy football crap! Julius Jones is the better running back, he'll prove that in 2007..

That would mean we are having a great year.

 

[superpunk]

I guess, Iman, you like so many others have failed to notice the difference between JJ as a rookie and now. If you cannot notice the difference that is your problem.
JJ has had more then 10 runs longer then MB3's career longest. At least 5 last year alone. MB3 is NO threat to break a long TD run. The D will never respect him in that way. When in 2 years your longest run is 26 yds you are not a game breaker.

And yet, despite all those long runs, Barber's ypc still trounces Julius'. Barber's not breaking them, and noone ever said he was. But he is far more consistent than Julius. It's like Emmitt (Barber) vs. Barry (Julius).

Only....with like 1/4 the talent.

Barber has been far more productive and consistent. In a running game, that is invaluable, as is not being put in all the bad spots Julius put us in. That outweigh's ability to break a long one every 50 carries. If you want another parallel, think Newman vs. Deangelo Hall. One is consistent, if not eye-popping - while the other struggles in between big plays. That's what we have here with our RBs.

Consistent Barber vs. occasionally great Julius.

 

[Dhragon]

Yeah, i hope they start Marion Barber a game or two im really interested in seeing how he does against a "Fresh" defense. That seems to be the most popular argument against him.

He HAS started several games and carried the full loads in them when Julius was hurt year before last. Maybe someone can find the stats for those gemes for you.

 

[InmanRoshi]

I guess, Iman, you like so many others have failed to notice the difference between JJ as a rookie and now. If you cannot notice the difference that is your problem.
JJ has had more then 10 runs longer then MB3's career longest. At least 5 last year alone. MB3 is NO threat to break a long TD run. The D will never respect him in that way. When in 2 years your longest run is 26 yds you are not a game breaker.

Ugh, don't know how to break this to you ... but Julius has 721 career carries, and MB3 has 273. I would certainly hope Julius would have totaled a lot more long runs than someone who has almost a third of his carries.

Besides, I'm not so much concerned about Julius' two or three big runs a season. Aveion Cason once broke a 65 yard run for the Cowboys, that doesn't mean he's a great RB. I'm worried about the day to day job of moving the chains, scoring touchdowns and putting your team in a position to win. When Julius is good, he's very good. Trouble is, we only get that Julius three times a year, and we play a 16 game schedule. I hate going into every game not knowing which guy we're going to get from our starting RB. We're susceptible to losing each and every week depending on whether Julius shows up or not.

 

[Doomsday101]

He HAS started several games and carried the full loads in them when Julius was hurt year before last. Maybe someone can find the stats for those gemes for you.

Barber did start 2 games in 2005 and put up 127 on 27 carries for a 4.7 yard avg and 2 TD's. The fiollowing week he ran 13 times for 46 yards and 1 TD. I don't think Barber is going to be a guy who can handle 25 carries a game but I would like to see him get more oppertunities than he has gotten. More times than not he produces when he is in the game and for me that is what matters.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I guess I can't be taken seriously either, because Julius is absolutely faster and more athletic than Barber. Is that even arguable to anyone who has watched both play?

And IR raises an interesting point. Why would Parcells repeatedly start an inferior player? I can see Parcells being irrationally biased toward one of his former players, or his favorite "prototype"-sized player like Bradie James, but Julius doesn't fit either of those descriptions. Can anyone think of a time in Parcells' career when he intentionally kept what he believed to be his best back on the bench?

 

[ThreeSportStar80]

We're dealing with a real genius here.

So says the guy that still quotes the Simpsons.. pathetic.

 

[Alexander]

And IR raises an interesting point. Why would Parcells repeatedly start an inferior player?

It is clear the allure of a potential big play was what kept Jones starting. He would be foolish not to hope the law of averages plays out and he gets more big plays from the player that is supposed to deliver them.

Thing is, Jones did not live up to his end of the bargain.

To the naked eye, Jones should be the better player. He should be doing the things that excited everyone in 2004. But the results are not clearly there to support that notion. Something is just not there, for whatever reason. That is why this is even a debate to begin with.

 

[InmanRoshi]

And IR raises an interesting point. Why would Parcells repeatedly start an inferior player?

Because Parcells was a stickler for keeping players fresh and splitting workload. MB3 was going to be the nickel back because ... well, quite frankly, Julius' blocking and receiving skills are pretty shoddy. So MB3 is almost assured of around 45% of all snaps right there just in nickel. Now you make Barber the starting base back nd add that to the nickel workload, and MB3 is taking 85-90% of the snaps. Neither JJ or MB3 are good enough to be 90% backs.

Besides, what's important is not whose name is called coming out of the tunnel in pregame ceremonies. What's important is who is taking carries in the 4th quarter with the game on the line. That was becoming more and more MB3 as the season wore on.

I also think the hope that Julius could break a long one overrided all when Parcells was obviously gameplanning around a close game (Seattle playoffs) when 1 big play could decide the game. That's not generally how I would like to go about a 16 game season, considering Julius doesn't come through more often than not.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Stop with the fantasy football crap! Julius Jones is the better running back, he'll prove that in 2007..

Is this your motto?

 

[Sarge]

Barber...........

 

[theogt]

I guess I can't be taken seriously either, because Julius is absolutely faster and more athletic than Barber. Is that even arguable to anyone who has watched both play?

Absolutely it is arguable. Julius has a side-step to the left that is deadly (side note: he has no side-step to the right). Other than that, there's very little gap, if any, between the two in terms of speed and athleticism. And I think defenders can take away that advantage he has from his juke to the left by playing contain on the left side (defensive right).

And IR raises an interesting point. Why would Parcells repeatedly start an inferior player? I can see Parcells being irrationally biased toward one of his former players, or his favorite "prototype"-sized player like Bradie James, but Julius doesn't fit either of those descriptions. Can anyone think of a time in Parcells' career when he intentionally kept what he believed to be his best back on the bench?

I can think of numerous times when he sat better players, and that's just in his time here. I'm sure his history is riddled with it.

Inman's point wasn't that Parcells was irrational, but that Julius should be glad that Parcells was irrational.

 

[ThreeSportStar80]

Is this your motto?

Haa....

 

[BlueStar II]

Jones may have an edge in his speed, but other than that, I think Barber has him beat. Since this is Jones contract year, he needs to step up and show what he can do. Barber has shown that he is the better receiver, blocker, and obviously runs with more leg drive than Jones, and unless Jones can demonstrate some of the same running abilities that he showed us his first year, Barber gets the nod as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Absolutely it is arguable. Julius has a side-step to the left that is deadly (side note: he has no side-step to the right). Other than that, there's very little gap, if any, between the two in terms of speed and athleticism.

Wow.

Inman's point wasn't that Parcells was irrational, but that Julius should be glad that Parcells was irrational.

I got his point. The question is, was Parcells really being irrational?

How could the argument be that Parcells started Julius for his big play potential when you guys have "proved" that he doesn't have any more big play potential to start with?

I mean, he's not even faster or quicker than Barber. :laugh2:

 

[theogt]

Wow.

Do you think I just say things to be saying it? There are some ridiculous memes that get passed around fans and Julius being more athletic than Barber is one of them. It's a fabrication. It doesn't bear out on the field or in the numbers.

I got his point. The question is, was Parcells really being irrational?

Yes, I think so.

How could the argument be that Parcells started Julius for his big play potential when you guys have "proved" that he doesn't have any more big play potential to start with?

Who said that he started Julius for his big play potential? As has been pointed out, if he was doing that, it would be irrational.

I think he started Julius because he'd do exactly what he was told (i.e., run like a robot).

I mean, he's not even faster or quicker than Barber. :laugh2:

I think emoticons are like racing stripes on cars. Stripes make people think their cars are faster, while emoticons make people think their point has validity.

 

[InmanRoshi]

If the best case for Julius is that he's some sort of athletic marvel, consider me unimpressed. He was generally considered to be a reach in the 2nd round by Parcells, who had reportedly fell in love with him watching film. He generally carried a 3rd round grade by most. So, yes, I guess its just out of the line of reason that a guy who slid into the early 4th could be in the same tier athletically than a guy who carried a 3rd round grade. Neither one of these guys are Gayle Sayers or Eric Dickerson when it comes to big play ability (or a Marshawn Lynch, for that matter), so might as well go with the guy who moves the chains.

 

[Doomsday101]

Do you think I just say things to be saying it? There are some ridiculous memes that get passed around fans and Julius being more athletic than Barber is one of them. It's a fabrication. It doesn't bear out on the field or in the numbers.

Yes, I think so.

Who said that he started Julius for his big play potential? I think he started Julius because he'd do exactly what he was told (i.e., run like a robot).

I think emoticons are like racing stripes on cars. Stripes make people think their cars are faster, while emoticons make people think their point has validity.

Come on Jones is faster you even posted the numbers yourself
40 Time:
Julius Jones: 4.47
Marion Barber: 4.49

:laugh2: