ESPN: How Washington approaches free agency is anyone's guess

[silverbear]

right now we are only $7 over and we are expected to be 10-15 million under.

According to some wildly optimistic projections on a few Skins boards...

But let's say those optimists are absolutely correct, that still leaves one, LITTLE point that you homers don't seem to address:

You still haven't set aside money for your draft picks, and you still haven't set aside money to sign any of your own, 15 unrestricted free agents that you might want to keep around... you know, guys like LS Ethan Albright, P Derrick Frost, K Shaun Suisham... if you let any of these guys get away, you have to go out and pay the same kind of money for a replacement... when you watch Todd Collins hit the free agent highway, you're then gonna have to assign some money to sign a replacement for him, too...

Other players that y'all might want to keep include WRs Reche Caldwell and Keenan McCardell, TE Brian Kozlowski, OLs Rick DeMulling, Jason Fabini, Ross Tucker and Mike Pucillo, DL Ryan Boschetti, OLB Randall Godfrey and S Pierson Prioleau...

The Skins might be willing to let some of those guys get away, but engaging in a little guesswork there, they'd probably prefer to keep:

P Frost, or sign a replacement...

K Suisham, or sign a replacement...

A replacement for Collins at backup QB will be necessary...

LS Albright...


Two of the four OL-- DeMulling, Fabini, Tucker or Pucillo (especially Pucillo)...

LB Godfrey

S Prioleau...

That's 8 players, and you can figure that signing them (or in a coupla cases, a competent veteran replacement for one of them) will run you about 10 million dollars combined, perhaps a little less... throw in what it will take to sign the draft picks, and you're pushing 12 mil in cap room eaten up...

Suddenly, you don't have NEARLY as much cap room left, do you??

Read how we do the cap and youll understand. Dan knows how to use the cap effectively. His personnel decisions may not be right but the cap is one thing dan knows how to use

No, he doesn't... as a result of how he's used the cap, the Skins were restricted in what they could do in free agency last offseason, and they'll be restricted in what they can do again this offseason...

Even if he has left himself enough wiggle room to get under the cap, he's still left his team with less cap flexibility than virtually every other team in the NFL this offseason... it's laughable to say that he's using the cap effectively...

 

[silverbear]

where did the 23 mil thing come from, then?

The Skins have already started the renegotiation game...

 

[silverbear]

We had plenty of money to sign Dockery. We simply thought that we weren't gonna pay our 5th best OL the 2nd most money. Samuels #1. Rabach, Thomas and Jansen get paid. We thought we had something with Todd wade at LG unless we got davis or dockery for near $25 which we offered in mid season.

We signed alot of guys last offseason like London Fletcher, Fred Smoot.

Fletcher and Smoot were it as far as "quality" free agents, and calling Smoot "quality" is pushing the envelope...

It won't be much more of a free agent haul this offseason...

 

[Skinsmaniac]

It's tiresome to have to repeat over and over how the Commanders manage the cap, how it differs from other teams, and how any economist worth his salt would do what the Commanders do. We get more money into the hands of our players than any other team. That's a good thing. The lack of success we've had is not due to our handling of the cap but due to the choice of which players to pay. It's absurd for some people to criticize the Commanders for overpaying and then turn around and criticize us for not matching the Bills' offer to Dock or the Boys offer to Davis. Those two players, while very good (Davis is better than Dock IMO) are interior line players, not worth 50 million when you can get someone 95% as good for half the price or less.

In response to Silverbear, those players you listed (albright, suisham, frost, godfrey, pucillo, fabini, tucker, demulling, collins, and prioleau) counted $7.5 million against the cap last year. Assuming a 15% increase to their salaries or their replacements' salaries that would be $8.6 million against this year's cap. Our rookie pool hasn't been set but will likely be anywhere from $3million to $4million. So that is about $12 million in cap room we need to find. How do we do it? I'm going to copy and paste from another site with salary cap numbers taken before the recent reworkings. It shows that the Skins, if they so desired could get themselves $20.8 million under the cap (I don't expect us to release Springs, for example, but that is the only questionable move listed here). That's right, from $20 million over to $20 million under. If you doubt any of the details, I can explain them to you tomorrow.

Start: $20.4 million OVER cap

Potential Roster Cuts:
Phillip Daniels - $3.0 million saved
Shawn Springs - $2.5 million saved
Pete Kendall - $1.8 million saved
Todd Wade - $700K saved
Total Savings for Cuts: $8 million

Keeping These Players, Restructuring 2008 Base Salary, Prorating over Remaining life of Contract:
Randy Thomas - $3.7 million saved
Clinton Portis - $3.2 million saved
Jon Jansen - $3.2 million saved
Chris Samuels - $2.8 million saved
Cornelius Griffin - $2.6 million saved
Santana Moss - $1.9 million saved
Casey Rabach - $1.4 million saved
Total Salary Restructure Savings: $18.8 million

Keeping These Players, Restructuring 2008 Roster Bonuses, Prorating over Remaining life of Contract:
Ladell Betts - $1.7 million saved
Clinton Portis - $0.4 million saved
Chris Cooley - $9.2 million saved
Andre Carter - $1.9 million saved
Antwaan Randle-El - $1.2 million saved
Total Bonus Restructure Savings: $14.4 million

Total Potential Cap Reductions: $41.2 million

Maximum Cap Room for 2008: $20.8 million

 

[silverbear]

It's tiresome to have to repeat over and over how the Commanders manage the cap, how it differs from other teams, and how any economist worth his salt would do what the Commanders do.

That's right, Danny Boy is a visionary, who's figured out a revolutionary new approach to dealing with the cap, one that nobody else in the league has been able to figure out (even though the Skins have been doing this for some years now)...

The NFL is a copycat league, and if the Skins' approach really worked, other teams would fall all over themselves to copy it... the fact that the Skins are the only team trying this approach ought to tell you-- if you could take off those maroon and black blinders you're wearing-- that this is because the approach is fundamentally unsound...

That's a good thing.

For the players, not for the team...

The lack of success we've had is not due to our handling of the cap but due to the choice of which players to pay.

That's partially true, but not entirely true... even if y'all made good choices in free agency, your approach would still leave you with a team lacking quality depth, and so more vulnerable to injury than most teams are...

And of course, if their personnel decisions have been so questionable, what makes you optimistic that they'll make good decisions in free agency THIS year??

In response to Silverbear, those players you listed (albright, suisham, frost, godfrey, pucillo, fabini, tucker, demulling, collins, and prioleau) counted $7.5 million against the cap last year. Assuming a 15% increase to their salaries or their replacements' salaries that would be $8.6 million against this year's cap. Our rookie pool hasn't been set but will likely be anywhere from $3million to $4million. So that is about $12 million in cap room we need to find.

Which is roughly what I projected, isn't it??

How do we do it? I'm going to copy and paste from another site with salary cap numbers taken before the recent reworkings. It shows that the Skins, if they so desired could get themselves $20.8 million under the cap (I don't expect us to release Springs, for example, but that is the only questionable move listed here). That's right, from $20 million over to $20 million under. If you doubt any of the details, I can explain them to you tomorrow.

The problem is, your projection assumes that ALL of these moves will be made, which of course assumes that all of the players who might renegotiate will wish to do so... you'll also have to replace Daniels, Springs, Kendall and Wade if you cut them (though I could see the Skins letting Wade get away without putting up too much of a fight)...

You're gonna spend 8 million trying to replace Daniels, Springs and Kendall if you let them hit the open market (either that, or accept a downgrade to your roster at their positions)... so basically, you're spinning your wheels there...

Now, even you project that the Skins will keep Springs (if they don't, I hope the Cowboys jump all over him), so that would leave you with 18.3 mil in cap room under your rosy scenario... take away the 12 million you admit you'll probably need to resign your own veteran free agents and sign your draft picks, now you're down to 6.0-6.5 million in cap room...

Now, go sign a backup QB to replace Todd Collins... there goes another million, million and a half against the cap... suddenly you're down to the 4.5-5.0 million range...

Which leaves you about enough to sign the number and quality of free agents y'all signed last year... for sure, you'll be unable to be major players for any of the marquee free agents, unless you're willing to make further, more draconian cuts in your roster...

Spin it any way you want, but the fact that the Skins started out 20 mil over the cap handicaps how much your favorite team will be able to do in free agency... spin it any way you want, but going into the offseason with the least cap room of any team in the NFL is not a good thing, no matter how many funny contracts you guys have to play around with...

 

[silverbear]

Keeping These Players, Restructuring 2008 Roster Bonuses, Prorating over Remaining life of Contract:

Chris Cooley - $9.2 million saved

In my last post, I mentioned some skepticism about your cap numbers as posted here... this is a good example of that, you claim that the Skins realized a 9.2 mil cap savings here, but the Washington Post reported that his cap hit was reduced from 12.2 mil to 4.4 mil... that's a 7.8 million dollar savings, not 9.2 million...

You can probably imagine that I now doubt the numbers listed for the other players...

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

In my last post, I mentioned some skepticism about your cap numbers as posted here... this is a good example of that, you claim that the Skins realized a 9.2 mil cap savings here, but the Washington Post reported that his cap hit was reduced from 12.2 mil to 4.4 mil... that's a 7.8 million dollar savings, not 9.2 million...

You can probably imagine that I now doubt the numbers listed for the other players...

Its pretty obvious that they are making the assumption that the total salary is what is to be saved when it is really just reducing the figure to the salary divided by the number of years remaing on their contract. There is still money even if you mortgage off the rest.

That being said I dont see how they can prevent the dead money from escalating with this policy. I guess its the only way that Lil Napoleon feels that he can 'assist' with the team so he plays his little money games. He keeps digging out of his holes but Zorn isnt moving into a pretty situation. That coaching staff had a major brain drain.

 

[Skinsmaniac]

The cap numbers I cited represent the maximum that the Skins could get from reworking the deals. For example, in the Cooley deal, I believe that the Skins didn't shift the entire bonus and base salary to a signing bonus. Instead, Cooley still has a base salary significantly above the vet minimum - that explains the difference between the numbers I cited which demonstrate the max amount the Commanders can get under the cap and the numbers cited by the Post which is how the Commanders actually chose to rework his deal.

 

[Skinsmaniac]

That being said I dont see how they can prevent the dead money from escalating with this policy.

Read my post earlier in this thread and you will see that the Skins have no problem with dead money because for every dollar of dead money, they open up one dollar and ten cents by their policy of borrowing against future caps to use now.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Read my post earlier in this thread and you will see that the Skins have no problem with dead money because for every dollar of dead money, they open up one dollar and ten cents by their policy of borrowing against future caps to use now.

Undoer the assumption that the cap grows. That is the only reason youve been keeping your head above water.

 

[Skinsmaniac]

Undoer the assumption that the cap grows. That is the only reason youve been keeping your head above water.

Yeah, you're absolutely right. If the cap level didn't grow, or maybe even if it didn't grow as fast as the Skins expect it to, they would be in serious, serious trouble.

 

[mwj473]

Yes he is a FA, and I dont need a list to tell me that.

He restructured his deal last February (2007)


The restructure turned his salary into bonus and made the last 3 years of the deal void based on snaps taken

He took 0 snaps, the deal voided hence he is a FA

Read the article from Fox in post #34. If he is a FA, then how is Washington going to release him? You can't release someone who is going to be a FA.

Edit: I do see where is now listed as a FA to be for 2008, but will still count $3.4M against there cap.

 

[silverbear]

The cap numbers I cited represent the maximum that the Skins could get from reworking the deals.

Which renders your conclusions invalid... IOW, it's highly unlikely that the Skins will be able to clear the cap room you projected... which means, of course, even less room to pursue free agents from other teams, without more draconian cuts...

 

[Hostile]

The way the Skins manage the cap is roughly equivalent to Vinnie and Danny Boy playing pin the tail on the donkey. One of them is blindfolded and the other is trying to give directions. Wherever the tail gets stuck, that's what they do.

 

[firehawk350]

The way the Skins manage the cap is roughly equivalent to Vinnie and Danny Boy playing pin the tail on the donkey. One of them is blindfolded and the other is trying to give directions. Wherever the tail gets stuck, that's what they do.

I like you as a poster Hos, but this is the worst analogy I've ever heard any one ever say in relation to football. It might be valid in FA or the draft, but the cap? Cmon dude. If anything, we use the cap like credit cards. We pay off one credit card with another one with a higher limit and then spend up to that limit, relying on the fact that our credit will keep improving and we'll keep getting higher and higher limit cards. I think, in this case, Danny thinks also he'll get a Visa Black (uncapped year) eventually.

*massages temples* I've got quotes from two GMs that say none of this means a single thing. Cash over cap anybody? We could save more money by counting Brunell as a June 1st and same thing with Brandon Lloyd. Albright will sign for the vet min, same thing with those two linemen we decide to keep. That right there is only $3M for 4 players. Frost and Suisham are more vet min guys and so are Prioleau and Godfrey (maybe a small bonus for Prioleau). That gives you about $3M for 4 more guys.

Caldwell might stay on (another vet min guy, maybe a little more) and Collins is as good as gone. For a back-up QB, I don't think we'll spend very but I think $1M is a good cap number to keep in mind. So let's say, $2M for those two. I would say $8M and we're only letting 5 guys go. Tucker got cut last year BTW. He's writing for ESPN (or maybe SI, I'm not sure) now.

Also, we can resign other guys to contracts (Portis for one) to significantly reduce their cap hits (Portis said he'd be for this). That could take Portis' cap hit from 8M to about 2-3M, saving more than the aforementioned 0.4M.

Overall, we'd be somewhere around $10-15M under with holes at #3 QB (plenty of guys who could develop and we don't have to draft [$750k]), OLB (Briggs would probably run us about $3M in cap room), OL depth (I remember Vinny saying something about wanting to pick up mid-round guys here [$1M), DE, safety depth, #2 receiver (Chad's not coming, I think we're going to pick up Kelly if he's there but I'd expect $2M in cap room here) and #3 TE (Tyler Ecker would likely come back for $420k in salary), FB depth (I remember Vinny saying he was really high on Schmitt out of WV). All that considered, we'd probably end out a couple mil under. Not much room, but not unmanageable either.

 

[BigDFan5]

? We could save more money by counting Brunell as a June 1st

Could you explain how you are going to designate a free agent Brunell as a June 1st cut?

 

[firehawk350]

He's not really a free agent, his deal is voidable. Therefore, if we (or he) voids the deal, we will be hit with the dead cap number like it's a normal cut. I'm not sure on the exact language of the CBA, but I think we can use one of our june 1st designation on him so he counts like a June 1st cut.

 

[BigDFan5]

He's not really a free agent, his deal is voidable. Therefore, if we (or he) voids the deal, we will be hit with the dead cap number like it's a normal cut. I'm not sure on the exact language of the CBA, but I think we can use one of our june 1st designation on him so he counts like a June 1st cut.

Its already voided, it was an automatic void, nobody had to exercize the option.


He is a free agent and will count 3.14 or so in dead money on the cap.


Now how are we supposed to take your posts at face value and believe them to be correct when you cant get something so easy as a free agent right?

 

[zrinkill]

Now how are we supposed to take your posts at face value

Does anyone do that with a Commander troll?

 

[BigDFan5]

Does anyone do that with a Commander troll?

good point lol