ESPNews: Jason Garrett Top Candidate

[VA Cowboy]

So, you think Jerry was the same hands-on GM from day one as he was once Jimmy left? Is that what you're saying?

 

[iceberg]

So, you think Jerry was the same hands-on GM from day one as he was once Jimmy left? Is that what you're saying?

nope. not saying that either. i'm saying you can't call jones an egomaniac who never lets anyone else drive *except* for the winning years i which he let jimmy drive all by his lonesome.

are you telling me you don't see the convenience of that statement for your argument?

 

[VA Cowboy]

nope. not saying that either. i'm saying you can't call jones an egomaniac who never lets anyone else drive *except* for the winning years i which he let jimmy drive all by his lonesome.

are you telling me you don't see the convenience of that statement for your argument?

Yeah, I can say that he let Jimmy and BP do most of the driving. What's so hard to understand about that?

I don't know what's so convenient about it since it's not like we even won a playoff game under BP. But facts or facts, these two had almost virtual control over personnel and their staffs whereas Barry, Chan and Campo didn't.
I seem to recall Chan went to the playoffs both years he coached, so it's not like I'm going to include him in with Jimmy and BP just to make something convenient. Sorry... but you're theory is bogus.

 

[BulletBob]

Here's ten GM's I'd take over Jerry, if want any more just ask:

Scott Pioli
Sundquist/Shannahan
AJ Smith
Tom Heckert
Jerry Angelo
Mike Tannenbaum
Ernie Acorsi
Kevin Colbert
Marty Hurney
Bill Polian

And I'll submit to you that the only one of them that has surpassed Jones in bottom-line results is Pioli.

It is rather silly when he wasn't the day-to-day hands-on GM back then and wasn't primarily responsible for them. The point we are talking about is JJ as a hands-on decision-making GM. He wasn't that when the '90's dynasty was built.

OK - now you're moving the goal posts. Let me try to follow your logic.

JJ wasn't the GM when we won the SB in the 90s - I guess Johnson was.

What about that Super Bowl with Switzer? Who was the GM then?

JJ was not the GM in the past 4 years - I guess Parcells was. Why didn't we win a Super Bowl?

Most NFL owners do hire a football man to run the football operations and then sit back and write the checks.

Dude, have you ever run a company? When you are writing the checks, you are always involved. If Jerry did just sit back and write the checks, I'd agree that he was a moron.

Kraft/Polian
Bowlen/Shannahan
Rooney/Cowher

What is it about Jerry the owner and Jerry the GM do you not understand?

I am assuming you meant Pioli (Polian is the President of the Colts).

OK, let's look at the bottom-line results:

Kraft/Pioli

Overall Record (since 2000): 75-37

Winning Percentage: 67 %

Number of Super Bowls Won: 3

Bowlen/Shannahan

Overall Record (since 1995): 123-69

Winning Percentage: 64%

Number of Super Bowls Won: 1

Rooney / Cowher

Overall Record (since 1992): 149-90

Winning Percentage: 62%

Number of Super Bowls Won: 1

Jones

Overall Record (since 1989): 151 - 137

Winning Percentage: 52%

Number of Super Bowls: 3

Is Jerry's overall win percentage lower? Yup.

Has any other GM/Owner won more Super Bowls? Nope.

Can you look at those results and conclude that any of these guys are football idiots?

 

[iceberg]

Yeah, I can say that he let Jimmy and BP do most of the driving. What's so hard to understand about that?

I don't know what's so convenient about it since it's not like we even won a playoff game under BP. But facts or facts, these two had almost virtual control over personnel and their staffs whereas Barry, Chan and Campo didn't.
I seem to recall Chan went to the playoffs both years he coached, so it's not like I'm going to include him in with Jimmy and BP just to make something convenient. Sorry... but you're theory is bogus.

because to me it looks like you're building a case against jjones and his evil ego-driven habits. HOWEVER, during the successful years he wasn't this "ego" person cause that would imply he should get some credit.

you want to paint jones ego as our sole biggest problem (it seems) yet, during the winning years this "ego" was in check and *not* a problem so jones can't get credit for those games.

it seems you're cherry picking the years jones was an egomaniac to the "bad years" so you can say all of jones is bad and he has nothing to do with the good we have in fact accomplished since he's been here.

*if* jones is the egomaniac you claim him to be, then he was when johnson was here and he was when parcells was here and deserves part of the success or failure of either tenure.

you seem to have put all the good things say, on the left, and all the bad, on the right and not allowing jones to have any credit for the good.

i find that cherry picking, as i said, and convenient to your argument but not very realistic when you look at the whole picture.

 

[iceberg]

OK - now you're moving the goal posts. Let me try to follow your logic.

JJ wasn't the GM when we won the SB in the 90s - I guess Johnson was.

What about that Super Bowl with Switzer? Who was the GM then?

JJ was not the GM in the past 4 years - I guess Parcells was. Why didn't we win a Super Bowl??

you're seeing what i was seeing - selective picking of history to illustrate a broad point that should by nature span the parts he's leaving out.

 

[zrinkill]

it seems you're cherry picking the years jones was an egomaniac to the "bad years" so you can say all of jones is bad and he has nothing to do with the good we have in fact accomplished since he's been here.

*if* jones is the egomaniac you claim him to be, then he was when johnson was here and he was when parcells was here and deserves part of the success or failure of either tenure.

you seem to have put all the good things say, on the left, and all the bad, on the right and not allowing jones to have any credit for the good.

i find that cherry picking, as i said, and convenient to your argument but not very realistic when you look at the whole picture.

Thats all the Jerry Bashers do ...

 

[VA Cowboy]

And I'll submit to you that the only one of them that has surpassed Jones in bottom-line results is Pioli.

OK - now you're moving the goal posts. Let me try to follow your logic.

JJ wasn't the GM when we won the SB in the 90s - I guess Johnson was.

What about that Super Bowl with Switzer? Who was the GM then?

Bingo! Jerry wasn't the GM responsible for building the 90's dynasty. Yet you want to include him for winning the SB in '95 even though it was virtually the same team that won back to back SB's in '92/'93. What was Jerry's big contribution to the '95 team? I'll give you Deion. The entire core of the team however was already in place.

So I'll stick with any of the 10 GM's I listed over Jerry.

JJ was not the GM in the past 4 years - I guess Parcells was. Why didn't we win a Super Bowl?

You are absolutely right. Jerry wasn't the primarily acting GM the last four years and the talent on the team improved dramatically over the previous 7-8 years from when Jerry was the GM. And you're also right that we didn't win a SB. I do believe he finished with a winning record 3 of 4 years despite inheriting a major mess caused by Jerry.

Has any other GM/Owner won more Super Bowls? Nope.

Can you look at those results and conclude that any of these guys are football idiots?

Wow. You still want to throw out the three SB's brought to us courtesy of Jimmy and company to try and prove that Jerry isn't a football idiot.

Keep trying...because it isn't working now any more than it did the first time you tried.

 

[bysbox1]

First off, I didn't lose any credibility whatsoever. Chicago was in shambles with their QB situation as much as we were in trouble with our D and they're representing the NFC right now. And if I'm not mistaken, we beat the team representing the AFC right now, so get a little creative if you're trying to argue back, rather than just use my words which only apply to you. Our team is ready and should be there for as many reasons that you can make out for the Bears and Colts being there. The bobbled snap was a freak incident. There's nothing that anybody could say to prove we couldn't have gone to Chicago and beat the Bears that next week. They didn't play great against Seattle at all, and we were better than both teams at the time. If you want to stay negative about it and think of only the bad things that occurred, then of course you would be happy with gambling on a coach and demoting us to Raiders status like you're doing.

I thought you had left for extremeskins.com by now anyway. They could use you.

Finally, my opinion is that JJ is going to blow a first round pick anyway. Anyone remember David LaFleur? I guess Quincy Carter counts too since no other team had any intention of selecting him the first day of the draft. Why not invest a first round pick for a quality coach then? If that and a lot of cash is what it takes to get Cowher, then why not do it? At least you're bringing in a proven coach who can put the right people in place to make our D solid and bring Romo along. He did the same thing with the Steelers D and Big Ben...and he has big game experience. There won't be any transition time either. He is fairly young also. If we do whatever it takes to get Cowher, and it still fails, then I'm all up for going with these other garbage options that may or may not end up working out. I'm just saying that it would be nice to do whatever it takes to get the best coach available here. That's what we did in 2002 with Parcells, and he brought us out of three 5-11 seasons. There's no reason to not do it again this year.

Cowher has said over and over he will not coach this year. And we can not afford to give away the draft picks the Steelers will want for him. Is that all you can come up with?

So you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[zrinkill]

JerryJones has been the GM since he bought the team....

Jimmy Johnson has said this
Bill Parcells has said this ....

But the JJ haters will tell you he was only GM when we had losing seasons because he is a control freak .....

 

[iceberg]

Thats all the Jerry Bashers do ...

well i think we can all tend to get tunnel visision and at times, we've all done it - i'm sure. but this one is pretty blantant "i hate jones and will allow facts to be rearranged in an odd non-consistant manner to prove it" scenario.

if jones' ego is why johnson left, then that ego must have gotten out BEFORE johnson left - ergo it would not apply to johnson leaving. yet his claim is that said ego is the cause of the bad years but it wasn't around for the good ones, YET it's why the good coaches have left in a huff.

doesn't add up in a non-biased way but it sure does add up to an "i hate jerry jones" stance.

jerry

 

[VA Cowboy]

You Jerry kool-aid drinkers are trip. You want to credit him for the Super Bowls that were won when Jimmy ran things and then downplay the horrible downfall after he took over the reigns.

I think some of you would defend anything that happens.

If Jerry named Troy Aikman's mom as the next HC you'd probably be toasting each other.

I can hear it now, "Well, she did raise a Hall of Fame son and since Jerry won three SB's he must know what he's doing."

You all are real entertaining.

As for cherry picking, if I was cherry picking I'd credit every season we had a winning record to someone else and every time we had a losing record I'd say Jerry was in full control.
But, that's not so. Jimmy and BP were primarily in charge of their staff and personnel when they were here. Jimmy had two losing seasons and BP had one, and BP never won a playoff game. How does this little tidbit fit into your "cherrypicking" theory???

Gee, if I was cherrypicking I'd say Jerry was in charge in '89 and '90, and then Jimmy was in charge in '91-93. And then BP was in charge in '03, '04 and '05 while Jerry was in charge in '04. But guess what? I'm not doing that.

So I guess you need to come up with a new theory.

 

[VA Cowboy]

JerryJones has been the GM since he bought the team....

Jimmy Johnson has said this
Bill Parcells has said this ....

But the JJ haters will tell you he was only GM when we had losing seasons because he is a control freak .....

Not true... We had losing seasons in 1989, 1990 and 2004 when either Jimmy or BP were in charge of personnel.

Try again...

 

[VA Cowboy]

if jones' ego is why johnson left, then that ego must have gotten out BEFORE johnson left - ergo it would not apply to johnson leaving. yet his claim is that said ego is the cause of the bad years but it wasn't around for the good ones, YET it's why the good coaches have left in a huff.

How many times does it need to be explained to you?

You obviously either have an agenda or can't read.

 

[zrinkill]

Not true... We had losing seasons in 1989, 1990 and 2004 when either Jimmy or BP were in charge of personnel.

Try again...

Dont need to .... you proved my point with you're answer.

thanks

 

[zrinkill]

You obviously either have an agenda or can't read.

The Irony of that post is staggering ....

 

[VA Cowboy]

Dont need to .... you proved my point with you're answer.

thanks

What point was that? If I was blaming every losing season on Jerry then I wouldn't say Jimmy was in charge the first five years? Or I wouldn't say BP was in charge the last four?

You'd have to have an agenda or be completely incompetent to act like Jerry has done things the exact same way from day one.

 

[iceberg]

You Jerry kool-aid drinkers are trip. You want to credit him for the Super Bowls that were won when Jimmy ran things and then downplay the horrible downfall after he took over the reigns.

I think some of you would defend anything that happens.

If Jerry named Troy Aikman's mom as the next HC you'd probably be toasting each other.

I can hear it now, "Well, she did raise a Hall of Fame son and since Jerry won three SB's he must know what he's doing."

You all are real entertaining.

As for cherry picking, if I was cherry picking I'd credit every season we had a winning record to someone else and every time we had a losing record I'd say Jerry was in full control.
But, that's not so. Jimmy and BP were primarily in charge of their staff and personnel when they were here. Jimmy had two losing seasons and BP had one, and BP never won a playoff game. How does this little tidbit fit into your "cherrypicking" theory???

Gee, if I was cherrypicking I'd say Jerry was in charge in '89 and '90, and then Jimmy was in charge in '91-93. And then BP was in charge in '03, '04 and '05 while Jerry was in charge in '04. But guess what? I'm not doing that.

So I guess you need to come up with a new theory.

who's downplayed the bad years? i said you can't take away his accomplishments and only leave him with the bad. doesn't that flat out say he's had his bad years? it does to normal people.

have i defended ANYTHING that happens? nope. i've even got my shots in *during* my defense - but you bypass those cause they don't line up with your pot-shots now and extreme views we've never said or gone to. YOU went there and then threw that ball at us as if *WE* said it. i ain't gonna play that game either, VA.

if he named aikmans mom head coach i would want him evaluated for insanity and would think he'd totally lost it - but again - cute run to an extreme that simply doesn't fly in the real world.

you said jimmy was responsible for the early wins. not jones.
you said parcells had to clean up a mess caused by jones - to a degree, quite true. but again, allows leeway for your guys and none for people *not* your guys.

so - in essence you credit johnson for the winning years and parcells for cleaning up the jones bad dark years, but no credit to jones for ANY good this franchise has accomplished.

if i missed your glowing accolades, simply point me to them.

otherwise, yes. you're cherrypicking and then using extreme out of context counter arguments placed on *our* side we never said - out of convenience.

jones isn't the best owner out there but name one more committed to winning? (not saying more committed to being a traditional owner - but committed to winning).

you take the good with teh bad not seperate and look for blame.

 

[iceberg]

How many times does it need to be explained to you?

You obviously either have an agenda or can't read.

my agenda is to call bullshyte on obvious agendas of others. glad you noticed.

now go look at your own "jones bad" tirade later on in the day/week and at least try to understand i'm not in attack mode, i just find flaws in your logic you won't even acknowledge that perhaps they could be there.

you just say we want aikmans mom to be HC and other stupid crap like that.

 

[zrinkill]

You'd have to have an agenda or be completely incompetent to act like Jerry has done things the exact same way from day one.

So he as altered the way he does things huh? You mean like learning from his mistakes with the salery cap and how he handles coaches?

Like that?

Yet you say he is just like he was under Campo again .....



You are chasing you're tail buddy.