ESPN's MVP Poll is an absolute joke

[Fletch]

LOL. Another 20 page thread lamenting how we are so persecuted.

Got to admit that it's a legit gripe. A conditional fourth round rookie at QB leading a previous 4-12 team to the best record in the league? How do you not find fault at that? Just curious as to your thoughts other than ridiculing fans upset at the blatant foolishness?

Yeah, I get that fan voting is skewed, but it's moronic.

 

[Meat-O-Rama]

I want tacos

Me too, extra Beasely hot sauce please.

 

[Nav22]

Got to admit that it's a legit gripe. A conditional fourth round rookie at QB leading a previous 4-12 team to the best record in the league? How do you not find fault at that? Just curious as to your thoughts other than ridiculing fans upset at the blatant foolishness?

Yeah, I get that fan voting is skewed, but it's moronic.

It's not even fan voting, this was an ESPN "experts" poll. Makes it even more ludicrous.

 

[JD_KaPow]

10-1 is better than 9-2.

86.0 QBR is MUCH better than 66.7.

108.6 passer rating is MUCH better than 100.5.

Dak has the better numbers and the better record.

Carr has weak excuses for not being as good.

Let's see, I addressed your argument about the difference in records. You're just repeating the numbers without responding. And, by the way, claiming that a one-game difference in team W-L record is significant in some way when comparing individual players, particularly when those teams have played completely different schedules, is a hilariously weak argument.

You're asserting that the QBR and passer rating numbers are "MUCH" better, without any justification or context. Are they "much" better? How much? How team- and situation-dependent are they? (I can hear the response now. "108.6 is eight better than 100.5! Eight better!")

You're completely ignoring the question of the quality of the surrounding cast.

You're the one who claims that "Carr backers go mute when asked for an intelligent reason." And yet here you are, failing to engage in discussion at all.

 

[guag]

I don't know about MVP, but I do know Zeke and Dak are tied together for ROY.

There's no way one should get it over the other. They are as complimentary of each other as it gets. You could argue neither would get the award without the support of the other. It's a once in a generation or more occurrence.

Just like the SB MVP XII combination of Randy White and Harvey Martin together, the ROY should go to both players.
History made again by the Cowboys.

I was about to say the same thing until I saw your post.

Dak and Zeke for co-ROY!!

 

[MarionBarberThe4th]

I'm not ready for a Carr or Oakland raider to be MVP

 

[DFWJC]

I was about to say the same thing until I saw your post.

Dak and Zeke for co-ROY!!

That would make sense for Offensive ROY, yes.

 

[ilykdrama]

The fact that we have two players in the top 5 running for MVP (both as rookies,) should end this thread before it started.

 

[ABQcowboyJR]

I really don't have much of a problem with how that poll has worked out. I think I would slide Zeke over Brady and Dak, but that's about it.

 

[Nav22]

Let's see, I addressed your argument about the difference in records. You're just repeating the numbers without responding. And, by the way, claiming that a one-game difference in team W-L record is significant in some way when comparing individual players, particularly when those teams have played completely different schedules, is a hilariously weak argument.

You're asserting that the QBR and passer rating numbers are "MUCH" better, without any justification or context. Are they "much" better? How much? How team- and situation-dependent are they? (I can hear the response now. "108.6 is eight better than 100.5! Eight better!")

You're completely ignoring the question of the quality of the surrounding cast.

You're the one who claims that "Carr backers go mute when asked for an intelligent reason." And yet here you are, failing to engage in discussion at all.

Okay, here's some context.

Carr's passer rating is 7th-best among starters. Dak's is 3rd-best.

Carr's QBR is 14th-best among starters. Dak's is the very best in the NFL.

Thirteen QBs have a higher QBR than Derek Carr. Zero QBs have a higher QBR than Dak Prescott.

There's your context for you.

Wow, they've played different schedules!?!? Cool story, bro. Dak's record is better. Do you have any sort of evidence to suggest that Carr's faced a significantly tougher schedule?

I'm sorry to inform you that W/L record absolutely plays a part in the MVP discussion. Look at the history of the winners if you disagree.

Why is Dak's supporting cast significantly better than Carr's? They both have great OLs and some great weapons. Dak lost Dez Bryant for 3 games and didn't miss a beat.

Again, Dak's stats and record are superior. Carr has... what, exactly? Excuses for not being as good? And THAT makes him the MVP while Dak is only 5th??? Laughable.

 

[T-RO]

A far more logical thing to get disgusted about is that Romo hasn't been honored amongst the Cowboy brothers and sisters for his 2014 MVP caliber season.

Romo put up #1 QB rating for 16 game regular season...

And in the Packer playoff game on the road?
150.6 QB rating on a frozen field.
16-19, 2 TD, 0 Int, 223 yards *
Clutch-game winning drive, taken away

*His numbers before league officials stole it away. Even with the train heist... Romo's QB rating was 143.6 in that game.

It's one thing to not get respected from the outside. But the Romo hate amongst some here has been ongoing Cowboy on Cowboy crime.

 

[plymkr]

Dak and Zeke are splitting votes

MVP is awarded by the AP (Associated Press), not fans

Polls are dumb

I want tacos

I also would like some tacos. Some chicken tacos with extra cheese sounds great right now.

 

[plymkr]

Has a rookie ever been named NFL MVP?

 

[DFWJC]

MVP is Most Valuable Player to his team.
Remove that player and where would that team be.
Although they do usually limit it to players on winning teams who are having great seasons.
It is not most outstanding player though.

So although vote-splitting may also make it hard for 2+ players on the same team, it also logically explains (somewhat) why it's hard to get MVP if you have two in contention on one team.
If you remove one or the other player, you still have one left...which is more than other teams can say.
If Dallas had ONLY Dak or Zeke and either was still having a great stats year...AND the team was still rolling along at 8-3 or 10-1, then you'd have to think they'd be at or very near the top....kind of like someone like Carr is (who has no other offensive MVP candidate on his team).

Before panties once again get in a bunch, this is NOT arguing for Carr or against any of our guys, just pointing out how these guys probably see it.

 

[JD_KaPow]

Carr's passer rating is 7th-best among starters. Dak's is 3rd-best.

And four through seven are nearly tied. Again, how significant is the gap? Not significant at all, to my mind.

Carr's QBR is 14th-best among starters. Dak's is the very best in the NFL.
Thirteen QBs have a higher QBR than Derek Carr. Zero QBs have a higher QBR than Dak Prescott.

This is your best argument, by the way. Although QBR is so opaque that I don't put a whole lot of stock in it.

Wow, they've played different schedules!?!? Cool story, bro. Dak's record is better. Do you have any sort of evidence to suggest that Carr's faced a significantly tougher schedule?

Bro, Dak doesn't have a record. The Cowboys do. I can't believe you're using a 1-game difference in the standings as an argument here: it's so obviously ludicrous. The Raiders lost to KC and ATL and beat DEN. Dallas hasn't beaten anybody that good.

I'm sorry to inform you that W/L record absolutely plays a part in the MVP discussion. Look at the history of the winners if you disagree.

I don't care in the slightest about who *will* win the MVP. It's given by sportswriters, who are largely idiots. I'm talking about arguments for who *should* win the MVP. And 10-1 vs. 9-2 against completely different schedules isn't one, not by a country mile.

Why is Dak's supporting cast significantly better than Carr's? They both have great OLs and some great weapons. Dak lost Dez Bryant for 3 games and didn't miss a beat.

If you think the Raiders' OL and RBs are as good as Dallas's, then there's really nothing more for us to discuss. But you don't really think that; you're just trying to win the argument rather than arrive at the truth.

Again, Dak's stats and record are superior. Carr has... what, exactly? Excuses for not being as good?

You keep saying this, but it doesn't actually mean anything. Stats and records are always context-dependent, and there's no one killer stat that trumps all else.
I would probably pick Dak over Carr myself, though it would be very close. But I wouldn't choose either as MVP anyway.

 

[weaver21]

Okay, here's some context.

Carr's passer rating is 7th-best among starters. Dak's is 3rd-best.

Carr's QBR is 14th-best among starters. Dak's is the very best in the NFL.

Thirteen QBs have a higher QBR than Derek Carr. Zero QBs have a higher QBR than Dak Prescott.

There's your context for you.

Wow, they've played different schedules!?!? Cool story, bro. Dak's record is better. Do you have any sort of evidence to suggest that Carr's faced a significantly tougher schedule?

I'm sorry to inform you that W/L record absolutely plays a part in the MVP discussion. Look at the history of the winners if you disagree.

Why is Dak's supporting cast significantly better than Carr's? They both have great OLs and some great weapons. Dak lost Dez Bryant for 3 games and didn't miss a beat.

Again, Dak's stats and record are superior. Carr has... what, exactly? Excuses for not being as good? And THAT makes him the MVP while Dak is only 5th??? Laughable.

Dak has a better supporting cast than Carr does. I don't even know how you can argue that. Dak has a guy behind him that leads the league in rushing with arguably the best offensive line in football while Carr plays with a running back who is 22nd in the league in rushing and has a 3.9 YPA. Don't understand how you can say that these two have equally talented supporting cast because that's just not true. You mention taking out Dez for 3 games, but guess who Dak had help to rely on? Zeke. You take out Cooper or Crabtree from Oakland and I'm pretty sure the Raiders will struggle to win games without their weapons outside and having to rely on a below average running game.

 

[SacramentoKing]

Has a rookie ever been named NFL MVP?

Yes

 

[CowboyGil]

If anything Brady should be fifth. His numbers are a little skewed since he's played 4 less games than everyone else on the list.

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

Who cares. I rather Dak or Zeke be SB MVP, the only one that matters.

 

[Nav22]

MVP is Most Valuable Player to his team.
Remove that player and where would that team be.
Although they do usually limit it to players on winning teams who are having great seasons.
It is not most outstanding player though.

So although vote-splitting may also make it hard for 2+ players on the same team, it also logically explains (somewhat) why it's hard to get MVP if you have two in contention on one team.
If you remove one or the other player, you still have one left...which is more than other teams can say.
If Dallas had ONLY Dak or Zeke and either was still having a great stats year...AND the team was still rolling along at 8-3 or 10-1, then you'd have to think they'd be at or very near the top....kind of like someone like Carr is (who has no other offensive MVP candidate on his team).

Before panties once again get in a bunch, this is NOT arguing for Carr or against any of our guys, just pointing out how these guys probably see it.

Zeke is no MVP candidate. His inclusion is a farce, and anyone with any knowledge of how the award is given nowadays knows this. It's a QB award nowadays barring some type of enormous, record-breaking season.

And EVEN IF you disagree, why is Zeke a "candidate" and Julio Jones isn't? Zeke's the league's leading rusher, Julio's the league's leading receiver. Oh, right... Julio's inclusion would wipe out Matt Ryan's chances, and the Falcons aren't a polarizing team hated by most fans like the Cowboys are. So Ryan has a shot but Dak doesn't.

Same exact garbage that cost Romo in 2014. Make Murray an "MVP candidate" (who has no real shot at winning), and BOOM - Romo's instantly discredited and his MVP chances are gone.