Ex-Bengals RT on the Ravens Locker room athmosphere...

[SultanOfSix]

they probably could, but the Eagles aren't known for shelling out huge contracts, and TO wanted one

No. He wanted a contract that was what he was worth. It was his fault and more so the agent's fault that he signed a contract that was below his value. He trusted the Eagles to upgrade it, but they didn't and TO became the malcontent. The dynamics of the TO relationship aren't "he's completely at fault" due to him being the destroyer of locker rooms, while the organizations he was with are free from blame.

I'm sure Ozzie Newsome is a smarter than just saying, "oh, TO is a great WR, let's add him! whatever the cost! yippee!"

Yeah, because that's what I said:

"And you're missing the point. Ozzie is being praised for being such a great GM, yet he still wanted TO despite his antics in the media, which were sensationalized, because he knew, despite his negatives, his positives far outweighed them and couldn't destroy a locker room as the media now wants us to believe.:

 

[Bob Sacamano]

No. He wanted a contract that was what he was worth. It was his fault and more so the agent's fault that he signed a contract that was below his value. He trusted the Eagles to upgrade it, but they didn't and TO became the malcontent. The dynamics of the TO relationship aren't "he's completely at fault" due to him being the destroyer of locker rooms, while the organizations he was with are free from blame.

organizations aren't free from blame, but there are only 2 ways to deal with TO

cave in to his every need or want, to keep him happy, weakening your roster

or include him in a group of hard-core professionals, strengthening your roster, because he's not the alpha dog

Yeah, because that's what I said.

which is why you assured us that having players like Ray Lewis on the roster played no part in the decision to pursue TO

 

[SultanOfSix]

organizations aren't free from blame, but there are only 2 ways to deal with TO

cave in to his every need or want, to keep him happy, weakening your roster

or include him in a group of hard-core professionals, strengthening your roster, because he's not the alpha dog

Simply not true. Winning cures everything, as evidenced by the team of the 90s participated in far more "lewd" and "reckless" behavior than TO has ever done.

which is why you assured us that having players like Ray Lewis on the roster played no part in the decision to pursue TO

I assured no such thing. How do you quantify an intangible like that?

The fact is, strong personalities often encourage winning. Winning earns respect. Any locker room with a strong personality immediately earns the respect of other players, including TO.

TO has no power to destroy a locker room filled with strong personalities. But his strong personality can certainly affect weak ones. So, what does that say about the other players who existed in the locker room in his prior engagements?

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Simply not true. Winning cures everything, as evidenced by the team of the 90s participated in far more "lewd" and "reckless" behavior than TO has ever done.



I assured no such thing. How do you quantify an intangible like that?

The fact is, strong personalities often encourage winning. Winning earns respect. Any locker room with a strong personality immediately earns the respect of other players, including TO.

TO has no power to destroy a locker room filled with strong personalities. But his strong personality can certainly affect weak ones. So, what does that say about the other players who existed in the locker room in his prior engagements?

so you agree that Ozzie probably looked at TO as a final piece to the puzzle? the Charles Haley and not the franchise cornerstone?

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I suspect that Ozzie was willing to take a shot on TO but knew he'd dump him if things went wrong.

And you can't forget that all the nonsense in Philly hadn't even happened yet at that point.

Besides, Ozzie is good, but it's not like every decision the guy makes is gold. He loved Byron Leftwich and when he couldn't get him, he chose Kyle Boller in the first round. 'Nuff said.

 

[AbeBeta]

And you're missing the point. Ozzie is being praised for being such a great GM, yet he still wanted TO despite his antics in the media, which were sensationalized, because he knew, despite his negatives, his positives far outweighed them and couldn't destroy a locker room as the media now wants us to believe.

No, you are missing the point because you are projecting what happened this year to TO's behavior in SF.

TO feuded with his QB in SF for two years - it wasn't sensationalized at all. Direct quotes from TO played on the news in the area constantly. His behavior in SF was so bad that the team decided that they would make NO effort to resign him.

So clearly, your argument is not correct. For SF, the positives no longer outweighed the negatives. They wanted him gone and made no effort to keep him. He was a UFA and there were never serious contract talks to keep him at that point. The second they learned that his agent forget to file the correct paperwork, they moved him for whatever they could get. Those are not the actions of a team that thinks TO was great for the locker room. But hey, what did SF know? He just played there eight years.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I suspect that Ozzie was willing to take a shot on TO but knew he'd dump him if things went wrong.

And you can't forget that all the nonsense in Philly hadn't even happened yet at that point.

Besides, Ozzie is good, but it's not like every decision the guy makes is gold. He loved Byron Leftwich and when he couldn't get him, he chose Kyle Boller in the first round. 'Nuff said.

it's funny how a former TE has trouble spotting offensive talent, but as far as defenders go, he's a personnel genius

 

[Rack]

joey porter is a punk.

So was Charles Haley.

 

[SultanOfSix]

No, you are missing the point because you are projecting what happened this year to TO's behavior in SF.

TO feuded with his QB in SF for two years - it wasn't sensationalized at all. Direct quotes from TO played on the news in the area constantly. His behavior in SF was so bad that the team decided that they would make NO effort to resign him.

So clearly, your argument is not correct. For SF, the positives no longer outweighed the negatives. They wanted him gone and made no effort to keep him. He was a UFA and there were never serious contract talks to keep him at that point. The second they learned that his agent forget to file the correct paperwork, they moved him for whatever they could get. Those are not the actions of a team that thinks TO was great for the locker room. But hey, what did SF know? He just played there eight years.

I am projecting no such thing. You still keep missing the point. TO did behave badly in some situations, but Ozzie still wanted him. Whether SF wanted him or not isn't the point, because he was obviously trying to get out of there because of their losing ways. I am not arguing whether he was great or not for their locker room. And if he was so bad for the locker room, why did they keep him for eight years?

 

[McCordsville Cowboy]

Can I please have Ray Lewis next year? If not him, someone just like him, who is all about the business of winning.

I have been wanting him since he was rumored to be available 3 years ago for a 3rd round pick.

But even then , half the board cites he is either washed up or a criminal.

If even one member of our defense had a tenth of his leadership abilities. We would have one another game.

 

[Alexander]

I suspect that Ozzie was willing to take a shot on TO but knew he'd dump him if things went wrong.

And you can't forget that all the nonsense in Philly hadn't even happened yet at that point.

Besides, Ozzie is good, but it's not like every decision the guy makes is gold. He loved Byron Leftwich and when he couldn't get him, he chose Kyle Boller in the first round. 'Nuff said.

I believe he wanted Leftwich (a lot of teams did) but from my understanding Billick talked him into Boller.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

No. He wanted a contract that was what he was worth. It was his fault and more so the agent's fault that he signed a contract that was below his value. He trusted the Eagles to upgrade it, but they didn't and TO became the malcontent. The dynamics of the TO relationship aren't "he's completely at fault" due to him being the destroyer of locker rooms, while the organizations he was with are free from blame.

Revisionist history?

Terrell Owens signed that contract because he wanted out of San Francisco by any means necessary.

The NFL Player's Association even told Terrell Owens that it was a very bad contract and he signed the backloaded contract anyway.

Any player gullable enough to sign a contract that pays them well below their market value in hopes that management will "take care" of them and provide them with a new and more expensive contract in the future is just that, gullable.

Again, if I have Michael Jordan signed for $1 Million, why would I turn around and offer him another contract for $5 Million a year later?

Terrell Owens was desperate and very stupid and it was all on him and his agent that he eventually fired and replaced with Drew Rosenhaus.

 

[AbeBeta]

I am projecting no such thing. You still keep missing the point. TO did behave badly in some situations, but Ozzie still wanted him. Whether SF wanted him or not isn't the point, because he was obviously trying to get out of there because of their losing ways. I am not arguing whether he was great or not for their locker room. And if he was so bad for the locker room, why did they keep him for eight years?

He was fine his first six years, then he started fueding with Garcia and his contract was ending. That's why he was gone.

TO was never approached by the team about returning. They didn't want him back. He engaged in a drawn out feud with the QB and questioned his sexuality - he alienated a portion of the fan base (SF has the largest gay season ticket contingent in the NFL).

As far as their "losing ways" you need a history lesson. TO started fighting with Garcia coming off 12-4 and 10-6 seasons. Their "losing" season involved going 7-9 in his final year. He played in 9 playoff games in SF. That's not a losing franchise.

 

[skinsscalper]

I would be in favor of bringing in Lewis, actually, (though I've made jokes about Jerry throwing money at another "name") for a couple of reasons. One would be his locker room and field presence.

The other is TO. I don't care what anyone says, we are a better team ON THE FIELD with TO than we are without. However, he needs to be kept in check. No one on this team seems to have the balls to do that. I think Ray Lewis would fit the bill, in that regard.

 

[SultanOfSix]

Revisionist history?

Terrell Owens signed that contract because he wanted out of San Francisco by any means necessary.

The NFL Player's Association even told Terrell Owens that it was a very bad contract and he signed the backloaded contract anyway.

Any player gullable enough to sign a contract that pays them well below their market value in hopes that management will "take care" of them and provide them with a new and more expensive contract in the future is just that, gullable.

Again, if I have Michael Jordan signed for $1 Million, why would I turn around and offer him another contract for $5 Million a year later?

Terrell Owens was desperate and very stupid and it was all on him and his agent that he eventually fired and replaced with Drew Rosenhaus.

How was what I said revisionist history?

I said it was TO's fault and more so his agent's fault for the contract. Did you have to make the font so huge in the quote?

 

[SultanOfSix]

He was fine his first six years, then he started fueding with Garcia and his contract was ending. That's why he was gone.

TO was never approached by the team about returning. They didn't want him back. He engaged in a drawn out feud with the QB and questioned his sexuality - he alienated a portion of the fan base (SF has the largest gay season ticket contingent in the NFL).

As far as their "losing ways" you need a history lesson. TO started fighting with Garcia coming off 12-4 and 10-6 seasons. Their "losing" season involved going 7-9 in his final year. He played in 9 playoff games in SF. That's not a losing franchise.

So what is your point? Ozzie still wanted him and was willing to make a trade for him.

But, thanks for the history lesson. It appears that this image that TO is this locker room wrecking machine is shown to be a myth, unless you want to blame him for those lackluster 12-4 and 10-6 seasons.

 

[AlcoholicNinja]

LOL @ Sultan getting pwned in this thread. Classic.

 

[AbeBeta]

So what is your point? Ozzie still wanted him and was willing to make a trade for him.

But, thanks for the history lesson. It appears that this image that TO is this locker room wrecking machine is shown to be a myth, unless you want to blame him for those lackluster 12-4 and 10-6 seasons.

The point is that Ozzie was willing to do so b/c he knew he had an enforcer in the locker room.

And again. You are projecting 2008 myths on 2003 - he was a huge problem in SF - the 49'ers could have taken another route where they franchised him and would receive far far more than a 4th round pick in a trade. Instead, they made it clear that they didn't want him. They wanted him to leave and were willing to do so without compensation.

Frankly, that one of the best WRs of his generation would end up traded for so very little speaks volumes

 

[bbgun]

LOL @ Sultan getting pwned in this thread. Classic.

If I concentrate real hard, maybe I can figure out how a Ravens tribute thread got turned into a TO love-a-thon. Clearly, some people just can't help themselves.

 

[alancdc]

Can I please have Ray Lewis next year? If not him, someone just like him, who is all about the business of winning.

Amen brother.