Extreme Skins... WOW!

[VACowboy]

Something about skins fans must make one go crazy.

I mean it is a Cowboys board and we get a skins fan that is also a Hokie fan and we got another skins fan that is also a Terps fan.

How two people can root for two teams like that and post on an arch rivals message board is alarming.

Stinking Skins
Stinking Hokies
Stinking Terps

Now THERE ^^^^^^^ is intelligent football discussion!

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Skins fans' logic is that because they won the offseason, they are set to win the regular season...no matter how bad they were the year before. They never get the idea that other teams improve as well or at least feel like they've made improvements. Then when it doesn't go well during the actual season, they'll blame injuries, the refs and usually run one player out of town. Then the next year comes and they'll win the offseason title again, find some high priced free agent to replace the player they claim ruined their previous season only to find that to fall flat and the player they replaced winds up having a good year elsewhere.

But, never blame Snyder.

Of course, they started to blame Snyder last year, but then he overhauled everything and the rubes fell for it again. All the while they claim Jerry Jones is the worst owner in sports, can't evaluate talent, etc.

These are the same people that said Brandon Lloyd was better than Terrell Owens and that Jason Campbell was better than Romo. Or that Zorn was going to be the next great coach.

Oh, but they got rid of Vinny Cerrato.

Fool me once, shame on you...fool me twice...





YR

 

[jterrell]

Newsflash!!!!

New Commanders are same as the old Commanders.

McNabb was let go primarily because of how bad he looked AGAINST US!
Now we are supposed to fear him with a worse OL, worse WR corps and him getting older by the day?


The Skins have a good young defense but the heinously aged offense offers little support or hope of future success.

Wake me up when Dan Snyder moves along and they hire a GM who can actually build a team.

As good as Shanny is as coach he is just as bad as a talent guy.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

It's 2010. My post is from hindsight, not foresight; and my looking at both the Rams' 1998 and 1999 seasons came from the former, not the latter.

At this time, I do not have the benefit of already knowing what the 2010 Washington Commanders will have done as far as turning around their season unlike how I can with the '99 Rams over their previous season in hindsight. I can only predict, based upon my opinion, of what the Commanders will bring to the table, in regards to their coaching and personnel, towards manifesting a turnaround this season, again, at this time (e.g. before the season has been played).

The discussion centers on the probability of Washington having a turnaround season before the fact. At this time, I already know what St. Louis did from 1998 to 1999. I do not know what Washington will do from 2009 to 2010. I do not have hindsight to fall back on, but what I describe as foresight does not preclude that this season's Commanders will have a similar turnaround as the '99 Rams.

Perhaps this season, Mike Shanahan (an ex-Super Bowl winning head coach) will have the same success in his first season with the Commanders as Dick Vermeil (an ex-Super Bowl losing head coach) did in his third season with the '99 Rams.

I just don't see it at this time.

Perhaps this season, the personnel moves which Washington has conducted over the previous two off seasons will be as significant as what the Rams' transactions in (for example) 1997 and 1998.

Looking at both teams, again, I just don't see it at this time.

Perhaps this season, Donovan McNabb will demonstrate the same prowess at quarterback as Kurt Warner did in 1999; OR someone backing him up will take over the reins after McNabb is sidelined for an unforeseen reason.

Who knows? But again, I just don't see that happening at this time.

Anything is possible in the NFL. I have said that repeatedly from the late 90's forward. The 2010 Washington Commanders may go 16-0. Right now, I don't see it. 15-1? Right now, I don't see it. 14-2? Right now, I don't see it. 13-3? Right now, I don't see it. 12-4? Right now, I don't see it. 11-5? eh, but right now, I don't see it. 10-6? Right now, I don't see it. 9-7? Right now, I don't see it.

8-8? Maybe. 7-9? Yes I do 'see' that. So, if I were to dive into a discussion of whether or not the 2010 Commanders, who were 4-12 last season, will enjoy a turnaround season equal to that of the 13-3 St. Louis Rams? My answer would be...

No.

Actually I agree with you that I don't think they will turn around anywhere near like the Rams did.

I was only pointing out that he was showing situations where it in fact happened, out of nowhere, for a couple of teams so we could be really unlucky folks around here and see that happen with the Skins this year.

Of course I agree that I don't believe it will, and I certainly hope it won't, but there is always that unfortunate possibility that they could have a nice turn around.

 

[SkinsHokieFan]

That last minute "garbage td" won that game but i guess if you're a skins fan it's not about the result as it is about getting some kind of moral victory so congrats on winning 2nd place in both our games last season,... "don't be that guy", lol classic

I really don't know where you guys went to school

The last minute garbage TD I was talking about was the September 2008 game, the 26-24 win for Washington. Not last year's 7-6 loss.

Yea, I am really shaking in my boots at a team that has gone 5-5 against us the last 10 times we played while clearly being more talented in all 10 of those games

 

[SkinsHokieFan]

Skins fans' logic is that because they won the offseason, they are set to win the regular season

Where are you getting this from? Here I am predicting 6-10 for the Commanders and I got jokers like you saying that I am saying we are set to win the regular season.

Are you for real, or just unable to comprehend English?

I don't even see where Cowboy fans would have any disagreement with me in this thread.

To make it easy for the less reading inclined

1) Turnarounds have happened in the past few season, even dramatic turnarounds (examples include the 2008 Dolphins, and the 1999 Rams, both are probably outliers. Nowhere do I state the Commanders are due for this type of turnaround)

2) While the Commanders will be better then the 2009 version, it does not mean that the Commanders are suddenly OMG THE BEST TEAM EVER LOLZ. The team will be better. Hell the record will be better. It still means a 6-10 season until I see otherwise.

3) Despite the Cowboys having a talent advantage in the last 10 games played, the record of the teams is still 5-5, with Washington getting wins such as 35-7, 27-3, 26-24. Essentially, talent doesn't mean as much to me in the games these 2 teams play against each other. The Commanders have a very good chance in winning in week 1 due to playing in DC, and the fact that it is the first game of the year and there won't be any film. Right now, I'd certainly bet on Dallas winning in Dallas.

So again, in conclusion for the slow here

Teams can have big turnarounds, the Commanders will be better but not a playoff contender, and the Commanders have a very good shot at winning opening night in DC.

I hope that makes things easy for you all

 

[Ren]

I really don't know where you guys went to school

The last minute garbage TD I was talking about was the September 2008 game, the 26-24 win for Washington. Not last year's 7-6 loss.

Yea, I am really shaking in my boots at a team that has gone 5-5 against us the last 10 times we played while clearly being more talented in all 10 of those games

I can't wait for the season to start when you clowns go into hibernation again. I'm so sick of reading this same crap every offseason, it's been like 5 years since you where able to talk smack and have your team actually accomplish something, when are you ever going to learn?

Keep trying to convince your self you're on the same level as us it's just gonna make the meltdown all the more funny when we start digging up these quotes in October :laugh2:


**** your offseason championship, Try winning some games before you start talking, try it just once, one offseason that's all we ask and we might actually give you the respect you seem to think you're owed for going 4-12

Your team sucks

 

[firehawk350]

Washington will be better, no doubt, but I'm not buying the idea that they overmatch Dallas' offense in game one. Carter played his way out of SF because he couldn't handle the 3-4 OLB position, and the rest of the team will be playing its first game in a brand new scheme. I don't know where you got the idea that "camp reports aren't promising" for the Dallas OL. Free has looked excellent going against two of the premier pass rushers in the league, actually showing great punch in the running game. Alex Barron has been almost as good.

I'll grant Free has looked good but based off what I read, he blocks against Ware about two-three times a practice and otherwise, just blocks second string. Excuse me if I don't take that sample size as gospel truth. Alex Barron isn't going to start so unless you go with a heavy package (or Colombo or Free gets hurt), which I don't remember you ever doing, Alex Barron is a non-factor.

Colombo has lost a step? Based on what, the NFC divisional game in which he returned before his injury was fully healed? Kosier graded out as Dallas' best OL last year and has done nothing in camp to make anyone think he won't play well again in the upcoming season.

Colombo is 32 and I have read reports that he's looking a bit sluggish. Coming back from an injury at that age sometimes takes more time and sometimes doesn't happen at all. Just ask Jon Jansen and Randy Thomas. Kyle Kosier is a very technical blocker and like Pete Kendall, I expect him to play well this year. However, he's woefully matched against the guys on the right side of the line (Haynesworth and Orakpo)

Gurode and Davis went to the Pro Bowl blocking for an offense that ranked second in the League in yards gained, and nothing in camp has indicated that they are any different a year later.

Gurode and Davis, from many sources, got to the probowl off of pure reputation. They played poorly this year and you're delusional if you think differently.

On the other side, Dallas returns a unit that provided one of the best pass rushes in the game and allowed the second fewest points during the regular season. They'll go against an offense with no WR's, old RBs and a rookie tackle, groomed by another new coach bringing another new scheme. It'll be Sunday of opening night in DC, and the Skins always play Dallas well, so I don't expect a cake walk. But one thing I do not see is a good matchup for Washington, anywhere.

I think the Cowboys match up well defensively against the Skins however, Mike Shanahan's zone blocking scheme, has always rushed well against the NFC East. I did the math a while back and he posts insane stats.

FYI, I'd take our rookie tackle over yours and our RT over anybody on your line.

I find it somewhat surprising that Skins fans are hearing about our o line struggles in camp when we ain't, Free got beat twice during the first few practices and since then i've not heard anything besides he run blocks good, not hearing anything is usually a good thing when you consider some of the guys he goes up against daily like Ware. Colombo sure didn't look like he had lost a step before the injury and it was clear as day that he wasn't healthy when he came back so the jury is still out on him. Barron is impressing the coaches not heard anything more then that about him either so i assume he's doing good as well

I just want to know where you are getting all these report from saying Free is having a hard time and Colombo has lost a step cause i honestly haven't seen any negative reports on our o line since like day 1 of came when Free got beat twice.

I never said Free got schooled constantly but he plays second string more FAR more often than Ware (yesterday I heard he got two reps against Ware and I'd expect any starting level LT to hold his own for two plays).

On the flip side i'd be shocked if a rookie LT playing his very first NFL game has any success at all against arguably the best pass rusher in football, Brown might have his hands full with Spencer as well, not to mention Ratliff who always seems good for 2 sacks when we play you guys.

Jared Allen wants a word with you. As would Dwight Freeney. Trent Williams will probably struggle either way, but he's doing well as of right now and Ware is a speed rusher which is what Trent Williams excels against.

Excuse me if I don't jump on the Spencer bandwagon quite yet. The dude posted 6 sacks in the season and you expect a pro bowl level tackle to have problems with him? I would see your point since it seemed he "turned it on" in the last half but it's not like he's a rookie, he's been in the league for a while now.

Our skill position players on offense are just better then what you have, only position i'd give you an edge is TE because you're 2 deep. It's not 2006 any more so i've got to go with us at RB too, WR isn't even worth mentioning and QB since i'm feeling generous is a toss up

I'm sorry, I missed the part where our QBs will have a throw off to determine the game. Either way, it's hard to really judge our offensive talent because we were in a sophomoric scheme run by a head coach who my non-football watching wife could out gameplan.

I don't think our o line is anything special but it's better then yours, who's for the most part completely unproven

Again, I'd take our tackles over yours at this point and for the future. Your RG is better than ours and the center and RG are probably about even.

On D i'd give us the edge on Dline our guys have played in this system for years and Ratliff is one of the best in the business. LB us again, DBs toss up, we got the edge at CB you have a slight edge at S

Ratliff is the only guy that even remotely resembles somebody I think is a threat. Your DEs are yawn inducing and you don't have much depth behind it. We also have better depth so we'll be able to rotate guys in and out more.

I'm sorry, but the scheme thing doesn't impress me since there's really not many things a DL is expected to do. It's not like a coverage scheme where zones and handoffs can change based on offensive looks.

I don't really see all the match ups that favor you at all apart from maybe Orakpo on Free since he's somewhat of an unknown

I'll try to find it but Haynesworth (according to KC Joyner) won 44% of his one-on-one match-ups which is best in the league. If you leave Free out to block Orakpo, then you got to have Kosier take Haynesworth one on one and regardless of what you think about Haynesworth as a person, he'll eat Kosier alive one-on-one. You can't take Gurode over because the NT is lined up right in front of him and would have an easy path. So Davis and Gurode blocks Kemoeatu and leaves Colombo one-on-one with Carriker or Daniels. That means you have to put another TE or RB to block Carter off the edge and he posted 11 sacks going against OTs. If you think that the Skins don't have any good match-ups against Dallas, you just weren't thinking.

If both teams play their best game we win this 10 out of 10 times, but it's Skins/Cowboys so it's never that simple. We'll see soon enough how it plays out but i have every reason to feel confident going into this game with the team we have. We're just better, there's a pretty huge talent gap between our teams right now.

Sure... You have more talent but there's a lot that makes me say that you'd win only about 6 out of 10 (and right now, you are at 75% based on the last two years). Much better OL is the first reason. Secondly, we have a lot better coaching staff who will have our guys prepared much better, call something other than a stretch left on 3rd down and has a better scheme that puts Landry in the same state as the game. Third, we do have more talent in most positions on the field (WR, OL, OL depth, DL, LB) than last year. Lastly, it's not about a position by position run down. Having a good receiver isn't as important as having a good LT.

Dillusional Skins fans. Every year it's the same crap with a different color and odor.

"But this year we have..."

"But NOW this year we have..."

ad nauseum.

I don't give a damn about the scores or what happened. You guys got swept last year and I don't see that changing in 2010.

Yeah, that would be a good argument if our roster and coaching staff even resembled (I would go with even rhyme at this point) anything that had to do with the 2009 debacle.

 

[SkinsHokieFan]

I can't wait for the season to start when you clowns go into hibernation again. I'm so sick of reading this same crap every offseason, it's been like 5 years since you where able to talk smack and have your team actually accomplish something, when are you ever going to learn?

Keep trying to convince your self you're on the same level as us it's just gonna make the meltdown all the more funny when we start digging up these quotes in October :laugh2:


**** your offseason championship, Try winning some games before you start talking, try it just once, one offseason that's all we ask and we might actually give you the respect you seem to think you're owed for going 4-12

Your team sucks

Again, who is talking smack and offseason championship?

Seriously, can you read?

 

[firehawk350]

Again, who is talking smack and offseason championship?

Seriously, can you read?

Here's a crib sheet for arguing with most Cowboys fans.

If you bring up anything about upgrading personnel, you'll get a snarky response about offseason championships and possibly Dan Snyder. If you bring up anything about match-ups, they'll just claim they are just better everywhere. If you say anything about comparing talent levels, they'll just say they'll win an overly large number of times or we're not in the same league. If you bring up actual games, they'll default to blaming the refs, not bringing their a-game, beating themselves or use the term "fluky".

Honestly, it's like one of those wind-up toys. The arguments will change but they are all the same 5 things over again. It's like there's some brainwashing Cowboys seminar most of them go to where they are taught these same tired stereotypes (2005 was the last "offseason championship" I think we won and yet, it's still brought up) and can't seem to respond to a dynamic conversation.

That's why I think I'm going to avoid actually posting on Skins-Cowboys things on here, it's just not worth the frustration.

 

[Bonecrusher#31]

These jokers couldn't win one....

Not even ONE NFC East game last year.

Beat someone besides the Rams and get back to us basement boys.

 

[Hagman]

If you bring up anything about upgrading personnel, you'll get a snarky response about offseason championships and possibly Dan Snyder. If you bring up anything about match-ups, they'll just claim they are just better everywhere. If you say anything about comparing talent levels, they'll just say they'll win an overly large number of times or we're not in the same league. If you bring up actual games, they'll default to blaming the refs, not bringing their a-game, beating themselves or use the term "fluky".

The arguments will change but they are all the same 5 things over again.

Obviously we Cowboys fans have the facts on our side and we use them effectively being the smart, analytical bunch that we are.

But we use many more than these five points. What about the 5 Lombardis? How about beating the Skins twice last year, and Little Danny's team only managed a grand total of 6 points total against our D?

Plus our uniforms are cool, the Commanders' suck.

:lombardi::suxskins:

 

[SkinsHokieFan]

Here's a crib sheet for arguing with most Cowboys fans.

If you bring up anything about upgrading personnel, you'll get a snarky response about offseason championships and possibly Dan Snyder. If you bring up anything about match-ups, they'll just claim they are just better everywhere. If you say anything about comparing talent levels, they'll just say they'll win an overly large number of times or we're not in the same league. If you bring up actual games, they'll default to blaming the refs, not bringing their a-game, beating themselves or use the term "fluky".

Honestly, it's like one of those wind-up toys. The arguments will change but they are all the same 5 things over again. It's like there's some brainwashing Cowboys seminar most of them go to where they are taught these same tired stereotypes (2005 was the last "offseason championship" I think we won and yet, it's still brought up) and can't seem to respond to a dynamic conversation.

That's why I think I'm going to avoid actually posting on Skins-Cowboys things on here, it's just not worth the frustration.

I think there are plenty of smart people here, or else I wouldn't post.

The issue becomes when you say something that they don't like and then they tell you what you are saying, which is really what they want to hear you say.

If they could actually discuss the points being made rather then telling me what point I am trying to make and throwing in a :laugh1: , we'd get somewhere

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I think there are plenty of smart people here, or else I wouldn't post.

The issue becomes when you say something that they don't like and then they tell you what you are saying, which is really what they want to hear you say.

If they could actually discuss the points being made rather then telling me what point I am trying to make and throwing in a :laugh1: , we'd get somewhere

Thanks, guy.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

I'll grant Free has looked good but based off what I read, he blocks against Ware about two-three times a practice and otherwise, just blocks second string. Excuse me if I don't take that sample size as gospel truth. Alex Barron isn't going to start so unless you go with a heavy package (or Colombo or Free gets hurt), which I don't remember you ever doing, Alex Barron is a non-factor.



Colombo is 32 and I have read reports that he's looking a bit sluggish. Coming back from an injury at that age sometimes takes more time and sometimes doesn't happen at all. Just ask Jon Jansen and Randy Thomas. Kyle Kosier is a very technical blocker and like Pete Kendall, I expect him to play well this year. However, he's woefully matched against the guys on the right side of the line (Haynesworth and Orakpo)

Once again, link?

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

I really don't know where you guys went to school

The last minute garbage TD I was talking about was the September 2008 game, the 26-24 win for Washington. Not last year's 7-6 loss.

Yea, I am really shaking in my boots at a team that has gone 5-5 against us the last 10 times we played while clearly being more talented in all 10 of those games

why stop at 10 games, oh yea because the previous twenty before that were well not in your favour.

 

[Ren]

Again, who is talking smack and offseason championship?

Seriously, can you read?

You're the one trolling our board trying to sell as (just like last year and the year before that and the year before that and so on) that this year will be different, we're sick of having this debate with you every time you sign someone because we've seen the results over and over and over again

You suck, you might have convinced your self (skins fans are good at that) that you don't but don't bother trying to convince us. You'll get your reality check soon enough and we'll see you again next offseason for your annual rerun once you make your first signing. Seriously there's nothing more annoying then a Commanders fan in the offseason

 

[Ren]

why stop at 10 games, oh yea because the previous twenty before that were well not in your favour.

if they didn't sweep us 5 years ago they wouldn't even have that one.

 

[Nova]

Skins fans should feel confident. They did just about everything they could to field a better squad. They'll be a tough team, no doubt. One advantage they'll have over us when we meet is that we have no idea what they're going to bring to the table. It'll take some adjusting. However, I will say that McNabb doesn't deserved to be feared. The most dangerous aspect of his game (his mobility) has left him, leaving behind his poor accuracy and indecisiveness. It's a big reason why we beat the Eagles last year.

 

[Ren]

I really hate writing these multi quote replies]

I'll grant Free has looked good but based off what I read, he blocks against Ware about two-three times a practice and otherwise, just blocks second string. Excuse me if I don't take that sample size as gospel truth. Alex Barron isn't going to start so unless you go with a heavy package (or Colombo or Free gets hurt), which I don't remember you ever doing, Alex Barron is a non-factor.

In team drills he goes up against 2nd string guys most of the time in individual drills he faces all of our pass rushers daily, what i asked and i'm still asking you where are these reports that he's doing poorly that you saw and apparently only you saw besides the one the very first day of training camp? Like most things with you guys it's probably all in your imagination.

Barron may or may not be a factor but if Colombo has lost a step like your reports from our training camp say then he'll replace him. I still wanna see these reports that Colombo has lost a step that you claim to have seen

I wanna see these reports that our o line is doing poorly in general

Colombo is 32 and I have read reports that he's looking a bit sluggish. Coming back from an injury at that age sometimes takes more time and sometimes doesn't happen at all. Just ask Jon Jansen and Randy Thomas. Kyle Kosier is a very technical blocker and like Pete Kendall, I expect him to play well this year. However, he's woefully matched against the guys on the right side of the line (Haynesworth and Orakpo)

Again what reports, link?

Gurode and Davis, from many sources, got to the probowl off of pure reputation. They played poorly this year and you're delusional if you think differently.

Everyone that's not a Commander gets in on reputation alone i'm not even going to bother debating this with you. This has been the default go to excuse for Skins fans every time one of our players go to the probowl

I never said Free got schooled constantly but he plays second string more FAR more often than Ware (yesterday I heard he got two reps against Ware and I'd expect any starting level LT to hold his own for two plays).

No you said he wasn't doing well besides getting beat twice first day of camp i asked you where you got this info from, still waiting for an answer on that. Your assumptions doesn't count as legit reports from our training camp so either put up or shut up one this one, what reports?

Jared Allen wants a word with you. As would Dwight Freeney. Trent Williams will probably struggle either way, but he's doing well as of right now and Ware is a speed rusher which is what Trent Williams excels against.

Hence the use of the word arguably

Excuse me if I don't jump on the Spencer bandwagon quite yet. The dude posted 6 sacks in the season and you expect a pro bowl level tackle to have problems with him? I would see your point since it seemed he "turned it on" in the last half but it's not like he's a rookie, he's been in the league for a while now.

Here where your selective memory makes you a hypocrite Our guys made the probowl on name alone yet your tackle who wasn't inn the probowl is a probowler ok...

Ratliff is the only guy that even remotely resembles somebody I think is a threat. Your DEs are yawn inducing and you don't have much depth behind it. We also have better depth so we'll be able to rotate guys in and out more.

Ratliff is better then who ever your NT is, Ratliff is probably better in the 3-4 then the guy who doesn't even want to play in it Spears and Igor are ok nothing special, neither is the rest of your line at least our guys have years of experience in the system

I still give us the edge on D line

Sure... You have more talent but there's a lot that makes me say that you'd win only about 6 out of 10 (and right now, you are at 75% based on the last two years). Much better OL is the first reason. Secondly, we have a lot better coaching staff who will have our guys prepared much better, call something other than a stretch left on 3rd down and has a better scheme that puts Landry in the same state as the game. Third, we do have more talent in most positions on the field (WR, OL, OL depth, DL, LB) than last year. Lastly, it's not about a position by position run down. Having a good receiver isn't as important as having a good LT.

At this point you don't even know if you have one, we don't either, i love how you assume that yours is good while ours is not i would love to see what you're basing this pleas don't say the draft we've been watching our undrafted QB outplay your first rounder for years now and our undrafted WR outplay your entire WR corp last season. calling this position anything more then a push right now is wishful thinking.