Failed 1st round qb issues

[dsturgeon]

You're willing to cosign someone saying "IF Ryan Tannehill starts his career in Miami?" Um... Tannehill DID start his career in Miami and got dumped when he proved not to be worth the 100 million dollar contract they gave him. The Titans are learning the same lesson Miami did about him. Namely that he's a mirage who can only win when he's handing off to Henry. Not that any of that has anything to do with Dak..

Titans oline opened up some big holes. I think any RB would make him look better than he is, but that goes for any qb

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

If mahomes would have gone to the jets or a bad team, would he be a failure?

When you have the fastest skill positions in the league, an amazing play designer, and what might end up being the best TE ever, you are going to do well

I wonder if Mahomes will have longevity. I think he gets worse as the years go by not better, especially when he loses some skill positions. Injuries are going to hurt him

are you suggesting that wins and losses aren't all on the QB and only the QB? you mean coaches, players around you matter....this is mind blowing insight

 

[DFWJC]

welp saw somewhere that 0(ZERO)- of 22 first round qbs from 2009-2017 i believe are no longer with their original team..so thats what , 6years not one first round qb stuck with the team that drafted them. More are coming to up soon the years of failed 1st rounders could get extended..

This is alarming, Basically none are making it to a 2nd contract.

all those clamoring for trade up or getting qb in the first round at 10 might want to think hard about the risk..sign dak is risk but is it more risk to trade him then miss on qbs the next 2-3 drafts over 6years..hmm a dilemma for sure.

march 9th is coming quickly. lots of decsions for the nfl but the DC FO with dak and FAs..

The NFL needs to actually get the cap SET, so the FA and Tags can begin..

Probably should look at the last 4 years. 2017-2020
At least in that time more recent and relevant time-frame, that narrative has been completely blown out of the water.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Mahomes will be good for a long time.. He’s a perfect QB prospect. He’s only going to get better.

WRs will never be hard for him to find and with Andy Reid by his side he is going to be awesome for a long time.

Ive watched Andy Reid trot out some no talent QBs over the years and get production.. He has a incredible talent to work with now.

but you didn't like him coming out of college and you said he wasn't going to be a successful QB...now he is the perfect QB prospect!!! and will only get better!!!

 

[5Stars]

tell me how we haven't done anything to the defense because we have no money.... we signed 4 players last year none of which made it past mid season. we could ahve kept Byron Jones instead. how is it that we pay same money for 4 players, yet other teams paying same amount tend to find and fit the right player? again are you advocating for us to build a defense through FA?

I don't know how they are going to fix this team, however, I don't want to allocate so much money for one player because then you cannot attract top notch players that want to come help the team and make some money also, but they can't because Dak has/wants more than his fair share.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I think you can find a combo of a runner and thrower.

Almost all colleges are using them and they are going high in the draft.

The top 4 QBs in this class can all move.

in the NFL, if you can't throw from the pocket, you will fail eventually, you will not go far in the playoffs...RBs playing QB are regular season champions.....running QBs get neutralized in the playoffs playing against better defenses. QBs get paid to throw from the pocket, accurately...

 

[CATCH17]

that's why I didn't comment on the 2020 QB crop...it takes at least a couple of year and perhaps longer for Burrow since he got injured...

given your past evaluations of players like mahomes and watson and a bunch of no names you touted as NFL ready QBs...and given that 50 FO personnel ranked Dak in the top 10, I would say Dak is a top 10 QB...

Listen.. You’re trying to discredit me for 1 evaluation that was off.


BTW, what I said about Mahomes was he was an incredible talent that needed a coach that could coach all of the wild out of him.

Watson I straight missed because he was a 1 read QB in college.. I’ve tried explaining how the NFL has changed in very recent years.

Ive tried to explain to you how I learned from my mistake with these spread offense QBs and how the NFL has changed.

Now my worry is that I’m speaking with a stupid person because I keep explaining it to you but you’re just not intelligent enough to comprehend I guess?

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Exactly.

Furthermore, not every QB drafted in the first round has the luxury of playing behind three all pro lineman destined for the Hall of Fame.

Carson is a bust. when you were the 2nd pick of the draft, somebody paying a mid range pick is trying to resurrect your career because you were the 2nd pick of the draft. plus Reich coached him and perhaps he thinks he can...Wentz, the 2nd over all pick is a bust.

3 all pros? fredrick was out one year, came back at 50% and didn't play last year....
Smith has been injured last 5 years....

and yes, martin is a potential HOFer, probably top 3 guard in the league...so I challenge you to name the 8 guards who started for the 4 AFCCG, NFCCG teams? without googling........no one says we won the superbowl because we have the best dang guard ever!!!!

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Listen.. You’re trying to discredit me for 1 evaluation that was off.


BTW, what I said about Mahomes was he was an incredible talent that needed a coach that could coach all of the wild out of him.

Ive tried to explain to you how I learned from my mistake with these spread offense QBs and how the NFL has changed.

Now my worry is that I’m speaking with a stupid person because I keep explaining it to you but you’re just not intelligent enough to comprehend I guess?

no you have been wrong on all your evaluations. you didn't like these two.
Mahomes
Watson

you liked and loved 6 other ones (can't even remember them) that never made it in the league whom you touted as NFL type and NFL ready QBs..

that's everyone of your evaluations ...

like I said, I can do the same like you have been trying to do. pick 100 QBs in the next 5 years of the draft. miss 99 and sit here and gloat about the 1 I picked and call myself a QB guru like you called yourself, someone who just has a natural ability to pick QBs, like its a skill or something!!! and yet you are on this forum, like the rest of us.

you said Mahomes wasn't going to succeed in the NFL.....now you are changing your past opinion, and adding to it.

and you are still learning from your mistakes and I am trying to teach you. you have been wrong about Dak.... you are welcome. keep coming to me and I will promise to be patient in teaching and training you.

and when someone starts name calling, its usually because they are in a losing position and they are trying to change the narrative from the discussion at hand to confrontation and distract from the subject of discussion. do you feel like you have lost the argument? you are name calling at this point...

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I don't know how they are going to fix this team, however, I don't want to allocate so much money for one player because then you cannot attract top notch players that want to come help the team and make some money also, but they can't because Dak has/wants more than his fair share.

so you have no idea, but the only thing you don't want is to pay Dak. that's it!!? like I said in other posts, we have 7 of the top 5 paid position players on this team. money is not the issue.

in the past 15 years, dallas has drafted 44 defensive players. only two can be said to be good and high level, Lawrence and Jones (we let him walk). the rest are ho hum nobodies and most of whom aren't on the team...few busts along the way in Claiborne and Taco. not only that, we have sucked in FA too, low, medium, high paid with the likes of Hardy, Poe, McCoy, Griffin, etc.

.in the same period we have picked Zeke, Tyron, Dak, Collins, Schultz, Martin, Fredrick, CD, Gallup, Biadasz (all rookie team), Pollard, Jarwin (UDFA)...... that's core of the offense through the draft and UDFA.....

how do you fix the team, focus on root of the problem, which is why can't we pick good defensive players in the draft or find the right fit in FA. find and hire the right evaluators. fix that, because even if you diminish the offense by not signing Dak and have to make up for it defensively, how many good players do you think we are going to sign in FA given past performance of signing FAs and we probably need about 7 or 8 players to fix this defense. until we learn to draft better defensively, we are going to struggle on that side of the ball.....

 

[CATCH17]

no you have been wrong on all your evaluations. you didn't like these two.
Mahomes
Watson

you liked and loved 6 other ones (can't even remember them) that never made it in the league whom you touted as NFL type and NFL ready QBs..

that's everyone of your evaluations ...

like I said, I can do the same like you have been trying to do. pick 100 QBs in the next 5 years of the draft. miss 99 and sit here and gloat about the 1 I picked and call myself a QB guru like you called yourself, someone who just has a natural ability to pick QBs, like its a skill or something!!! and yet you are on this forum, like the rest of us.

you said Mahomes wasn't going to succeed in the NFL.....now you are changing your past opinion, and adding to it.

and you are still learning from your mistakes and I am trying to teach you. you have been wrong about Dak.... you are welcome. keep coming to me and I will promise to be patient in teaching and training you.

and when someone starts name calling, its usually because they are in a losing position and they are trying to change the narrative from the discussion at hand to confrontation and distract from the subject of discussion. do you feel like you have lost the argument? you are name calling at this point...

Leave the football to me.. You’re too emotional to have these kind of conversations with.

Where did I say Mahomes wouldn’t succeed? The quote that everyone uses against me I acknowledge the exact situation he went to that I said he needed to be in to have success.

Of course I’m changing my opinion about his Texas Tech film and what he has shown in the NFL.. I’m not allowed to do that? Lol Get out of here.

 

[dsturgeon]

in the NFL, if you can't throw from the pocket, you will fail eventually, you will not go far in the playoffs...RBs playing QB are regular season champions.....running QBs get neutralized in the playoffs playing against better defenses. QBs get paid to throw from the pocket, accurately...

Best post of the day

no you have been wrong on all your evaluations. you didn't like these two.
Mahomes
Watson

you liked and loved 6 other ones (can't even remember them) that never made it in the league whom you touted as NFL type and NFL ready QBs..

that's everyone of your evaluations ...

like I said, I can do the same like you have been trying to do. pick 100 QBs in the next 5 years of the draft. miss 99 and sit here and gloat about the 1 I picked and call myself a QB guru like you called yourself, someone who just has a natural ability to pick QBs, like its a skill or something!!! and yet you are on this forum, like the rest of us.

you said Mahomes wasn't going to succeed in the NFL.....now you are changing your past opinion, and adding to it.

and you are still learning from your mistakes and I am trying to teach you. you have been wrong about Dak.... you are welcome. keep coming to me and I will promise to be patient in teaching and training you.

and when someone starts name calling, its usually because they are in a losing position and they are trying to change the narrative from the discussion at hand to confrontation and distract from the subject of discussion. do you feel like you have lost the argument? you are name calling at this point...

Mahomes was setup to be a success, that doesnt mean his evaluation was wrong. He was dealt a very good hand

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I’ve been wrong on all of them ey?

I guess that answers my question of what kind of person I’m speaking to.. Carry on sister.

you are the one who made those evlautions...not me....why are you getting mad at me...

and like I said, when you start name calling, its when you feel like you lost and have no alternative but to try and change the narrative of the discussion.

good luck!!!

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Best post of the day



Mahomes was setup to be a success, that doesnt mean his evaluation was wrong. He was dealt a very good hand

Mahomes elevates those around him, or he knows how to use resources at his disposal. I have always been against the narrative of the QB doing it all alone no matter who he has. that's bullshiet. very few of those QBs ala Brady and Rodgers, and takes the right coach to come up with the right scheme to utilize the talent he has the right way. Welker was average before and after NE, but bilicheck saw a WR that can be deadly from the slot and devised a scheme to use him that way and had an accurate QB that can utilize welker that way...... Brady is the GOAT. he is exception. perhaps Rodgers too....but he hasn't been to the superbowl in 10 years.

the rest of the QBs, good one like Brees, Mahomes, etc. can produce given good resources. Brees wasn't as good when he lost Thomas....but when he had Thomas, Brees was phenomenal. Same with Mahomes, he has Kelce and Hill and he produced.....give good top QBs resources and they will produce.

plus, like you said, Mahomes had a great system, great coaching and good resources and he was able to capitalize.

 

[CATCH17]

you are the one who made those evlautions...not me....why are you getting mad at me...

and like I said, when you start name calling, its when you feel like you lost and have no alternative but to try and change the narrative of the discussion.

good luck!!!

I’m not getting mad..

If anything I’m getting upset with myself for not being able to dumb this conversation down enough for you. My apologies.

 

[Seven]

Where is Peyton?

You gotta take what colleges are putting out and they are churning out athletic QBs.

Mr. 17......ya lost me. Another convo someday?

 

[Seven]

It wasn't spin. It just looked bad, and was not how i meant it

Peyton didnt start or end his time with the colts with that oline. You can make a good case, that peytons oline was as good as they were because of how peyton read defenses, made adjustments, and got the ball out.

He picked out the best line up peyton had at the oline over a long career and tried to use it.

He used those other scrambling qbs as an example not me, I just responded

Luck would still be playing if he would have taken care of his body

Gotcha......my bad.

 

[Seven]

in the NFL, if you can't throw from the pocket, you will fail eventually, you will not go far in the playoffs...RBs playing QB are regular season champions.....running QBs get neutralized in the playoffs playing against better defenses. QBs get paid to throw from the pocket, accurately...

BOOM!!!

YESSIR.......You did steal my post tho.

Gotta hate you for at least 20 minutes. Sorry Amigo......my hands are tied. Gridiron rules. Section 6, Article 3, Chapter 32, Verse 2, Appendix 101.

 

[blueblood70]

Probably should look at the last 4 years. 2017-2020
At least in that time more recent and relevant time-frame, that narrative has been completely blown out of the water.

Daniel jones , Mitch T and other are fails,..haskins? come on btw burrows getting major injury and not finishing isnt great sign..so until they PRIOVE they are good their names cant be in this discussion..

name all the HOF locks or even playoff lock qbs since 2017..dont say burrow and herbert because they havent done squat yet, Dak did more as rookie then both of them Rw also more and he was 3rd ..

nothing being blown out of the water until they are consistent highly successful..not well hes pretty good and i get it some have hit..but still a 6 year stretch of complete failures 22 failures ie every one of them is red flag..

give me the entire list of 1st round qbs since 2017 but i believe the other stretch was used because there was chance to let them play out their rookie deals before judging..

better sample sizes needed for a lot of recent picks....

but go ahead make the list 100% of every qb selected in the first round since 2017..we can open judgement.

 

[blueblood70]

Its kind of a screwed metric though.

It doesnt take into account teams that injure their QB's through negligence.

Andrew Luck comes immediately to mind. He'd still be in Indy if they ever had an offensive line.

worst statement ive ever heard , negligence??football is inherently a high risk for injurys sport and i dont see colleges making sure 100% of all qbs have max protection..hiw about HS , the ADVENT OF THE RpoS AND RUNNING QB WELL THATS THEIR GAME ISNT IT, HIGH RISK?btw most of that is on OC and HC using systems with creative time consuming route trees and put the qb in harms way by design..

how about this qbs stop demanding market raising prices and take discounts and in their deals add in please use my 15mil team discount on an OL..they cry about poor protection, bad team play, why demand trade how about give some of that money back...hmm novel idea..

LASTLY NO WAY TEAMS CAN HAVE 5 pb ol without sacrificing somewhere else, its vicious circle..

rg3 didnt get hurt for lack of protection he held the ball far too long and ran far too much,,lj about to get there soon as thats all hes truly good at..

Daks injury easily throw it away get rid of it quicker but he chose to run..this is football brah..there no negligence as you signed up to play.

when i go wakeboarding and snowboarding or go on the big coaters etc i know the risk and if i get hurt im not crying..i suck it up and rehab and go back at it FOR FREE,..these dudes are paid 30mil plus and its negligence..lmao