Felix Jones Highlight Video

[Bleu Star]

That sounded a little Barrack Obama-ish. Sorry about that.

 

[dbair1967]

In this draft, it'd be more like Antoine Cason, Ray Rice and Dexter Jackson. I'd take the three of them over McFadden any day

I wouldnt...none of them are half the player McFadden would be...you can say McFadden might not pan out, but he is far more likely to succeed than guys drafted in the late 1st and 2nd rd...and from a physical talent standpoint and production vs superior competition, there is no comparison either

I like the players you mentioned, but I wouldnt draft any of the above in the 1st rd

David

 

[theogt]

I wouldnt...none of them are half the player McFadden would be...you can say McFadden might not pan out, but he is far more likely to succeed than guys drafted in the late 1st and 2nd rd...and from a physical talent standpoint and production vs superior competition, there is no comparison either

I like the players you mentioned, but I wouldnt draft any of the above in the 1st rd

David

McFadden should be a good player, but even if he's Adrian Peterson, he wouldn't have the same effect as the three players I mentioned combined. Third corner is much more important to your success than your part time RB.

 

[dbair1967]

.

But their combined effect would almost certainly be greater than McFadden's

sorry, but those 3 guys could easily have little or no impact whatsoever...Cason might be a nickel DB and Rice might be a decent #2 RB, but Jackson probably wouldnt even see the field other than punt returns...McFadden is going to dictate the way teams play defense against us...he will alter the way teams play run and apss defense vs us, the the cumulative effect of having MBIII and McFadden running the ball means our defense will probably be on the field even less

That's not really up for debate.

not only is it up for debate, most likely its wrong

This team doesn't need a homerun, it needs players that will consistently get on base.

other than Owens thats clearly whats lacking on this team, a homerun hitter...McFadden is a homerun hitter

David

 

[dbair1967]

McFadden should be a good player, but even if he's Adrian Peterson, he wouldn't have the same effect as the three players I mentioned combined. Third corner is much more important to your success than your part time RB.

and we could still get a 3rd CB in the 2nd rd with another pick (and IMO that might still be a Cason, or maybe its Patrick Lee etc etc)

why not get both?

Jackson isnt going to do much other than returns...Rice is a nice playr and I wont complain if we end up with him, but he isnt McFadden ad ist going to scare NFL defenses

David

 

[dbair1967]

I actually think Rice will be more productive in the long run than McFadden. But that's just me. And looking for the knock out punch is just not a wise decision in my view. We need lots of good young players for years to come.

I'd be curious as to why you think that? McFadden is still only 20 and doesnt have much tread on his tires...he's been ultra productive vs the best talent a guy can face

David

 

[theogt]

and we could still get a 3rd CB in the 2nd rd with another pick (and IMO that might still be a Cason, or maybe its Patrick Lee etc etc)

why not get both?

That's not the question. Even if you took Rice, Cason, and Jackson, you'd still have your 2nd round pick, which you could use on a guard to replace Kosier or a FS or the like.

Jackson isnt going to do much other than returns...Rice is a nice playr and I wont complain if we end up with him, but he isnt McFadden ad ist going to scare NFL defenses

David

Rushing offense just isn't that important in the NFL. It doesn't really scare anyone, regardless of who the player is. When we played Peterson, arguably the best back in the NFL, were you worried about him? The correlation between rush defense and winning percentage is minimal. The correlation between pass defense and winning percentage is .5+.

 

[theogt]

I'd be curious as to why you think that? McFadden is still only 20 and doesnt have much tread on his tires...he's been ultra productive vs the best talent a guy can face

David

I think Rice has everything you need in an NFL back and can sustain a long-term career at his compact size, whereas McFadden has some serious questions about some aspects of his game. I don't want to get into a huge McFadden thread (and honestly I like the guy a lot), but I think there's much much much less risk involved in picking Ray Rice.

Essentially, I think Rice has less downside. And if I were a GM, that's how I'd select draft picks. I wouldn't pick who has the most upside, I'd pick who has the least downside. That's just a philosophical choice.

 

[BigDave95]

Rushing offense just isn't that important in the NFL. It doesn't really scare anyone, regardless of who the player is. When we played Peterson, arguably the best back in the NFL, were you worried about him? The correlation between rush defense and winning percentage is minimal. The correlation between pass defense and winning percentage is .5+.

You weren't worried about Peterson because that is ALL they had. There was no passing offense to keep you honest.

If you mix a potent passing attack with a rushing threat like McFadden, that's when your offense becomes dangerous.

 

[theogt]

You weren't worried about Peterson because that is ALL they had. There was no passing offense to keep you honest.

If you mix a potent passing attack with a rushing threat like McFadden, that's when your offense becomes dangerous.

The marginal increase in production that McFadden might provide just isn't worth the marginal reduction that losing out on a top flight corner might provide.

 

[BigDave95]

The marginal increase in production that McFadden might provide just isn't worth the marginal reduction that losing out on a top flight corner might provide.

You can still get your corner in the 2nd.

The difference between a late 1st CB and a late 2nd CB is what is marginal.

The difference between McFadden and Rice is HUUUUUUUGE!!

 

[BigDave95]

The marginal increase in production that McFadden might provide just isn't worth the marginal reduction that losing out on a top flight corner might provide.

And when you say top flight corner, who do you mean? DRC is gone, no question. McKelvin is gone, no question. Talib is most likely gone.

Is Jenkins a top flight corner? Surely you don't mean Cason when you say top flight??

 

[theogt]

You can still get your corner in the 2nd.

You can still get your backup running back in the 2nd.

The difference between a late 1st CB and a late 2nd CB is what is marginal.

The difference between McFadden and Rice is HUUUUUUUGE!!

This is where I disagree. I think there's a major dropoff in talent between the top 2-3 corners and the next 5-6 corners in terms of production, and I also think that at best McFadden would only provide marginal production over Rice.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

On that pass/run correlation to winning...

I wonder what it would be in the playoffs. Sure seems like the old-school way of thinking -- like Parcells loved -- is correct in believing that when the weather gets awful in January, you better be able to run it pretty well.

 

[theogt]

And when you say top flight corner, who do you mean? DRC is gone, no question. McKelvin is gone, no question. Talib is most likely gone.

Is Jenkins a top flight corner? Surely you don't mean Cason when you say top flight??

Cason is the best corner in this draft in my opinion. I'd rather not pick McKelvin that high. Nor Talib. My top 3 would be Cason, DRC, and Jenkins. I think there's a MAJOR drop off between those guys and what would be available in the late 2nd round. Much more so than the dropoff between McFadden and Rice.

 

[theogt]

On that pass/run correlation to winning...

I wonder what it would be in the playoffs. Sure seems like the old-school way of thinking -- like Parcells loved -- is correct in believing that when the weather gets awful in January, you better be able to run it pretty well.

Of course, with HFA throughout, we'll play in nice weather and/or closed domes.

 

[BigDave95]

Cason is the best corner in this draft in my opinion. I'd rather not pick McKelvin that high. Nor Talib. My top 3 would be Cason, DRC, and Jenkins. I think there's a MAJOR drop off between those guys and what would be available in the late 2nd round. Much more so than the dropoff between McFadden and Rice.

DRC and McKelvin go 7 and 10. In fact, one might go at 8. I don't see them sliding at all so we can realistically remove them from discussion.

The real debate is Jenkins, Talib, or Cason. I like all three of those guys but not nearly enough to give up a special kind of talent like McFadden. Ray Rice is a nice player but he does not even deserve to be in the same conversation as Darren.

 

[theogt]

DRC and McKelvin go 7 and 10. In fact, one might go at 8. I don't see them sliding at all so we can realistically remove them from discussion.

I strongly disagree that you'll have two corners go in the top 10 this year.

The real debate is Jenkins, Talib, or Cason. I like all three of those guys but not nearly enough to give up a special kind of talent like McFadden. Ray Rice is a nice player but he does not even deserve to be in the same conversation as Darren.

I think you're WAY overrating what McFadden can be. Even if he's as good as Peterson, which is far from certain, that's just not something you give up 3 (formerly) first day picks for.

 

[BigDave95]

I strongly disagree that you'll have two corners go in the top 10 this year.

I think you're WAY overrating what McFadden can be. Even if he's as good as Peterson, which is far from certain, that's just not something you give up 3 (formerly) first day picks for.

The only way the Patriots don't take a CB is if Gholston slides to #7 and after his SICK pro day, I don't see that happening.

And the Saints are an absolute given to take CB. They've added LBers all over the place but their giant weakness last year was in the secondary. Jason David was a disaster plus they have Mike McKenzie coming off that late season knee injury so they're not even sure if he'll be ready for training camp. I think Saints taking CB might be the surest thing in the first round.

That's two. And the Ravens are a possibility also so it could even be 3.

 

[theogt]

The only way the Patriots don't take a CB is if Gholston slides to #7 and after his SICK pro day, I don't see that happening.

And the Saints are an absolute given to take CB. They've added LBers all over the place but their giant weakness last year was in the secondary. Jason David was a disaster plus they have Mike McKenzie coming off that late season knee injury so they're not even sure if he'll be ready for training camp. I think Saints taking CB might be the surest thing in the first round.

That's two. And the Ravens are a possibility also so it could even be 3.

I'm fully aware that an argument can be made that the Patriots and Saints will pick corners, but I don't think both will.