Fellow "No Zeke at 4!" Posters: How will you react if it's him?

[rwalters31]

I love Zeke as a player. I HATE the idea of drafting a RB in the top 5. I'm trying to prepare myself for them actually doing it, though, if it comes down to it, and honestly, trying to talk myself into being okay with it. I'm not there yet.

If he is the pick, I hope we hope we give him the ball 25 times a game, 16 games a year for 5 years, then move on. I can buy the argument that RBs are worth a first round pick (not top 5) more than I buy they idea that they're worth big contracts after their rookie deal. After 400 touches a year, 2,000 over his rookie contract (never mind playoff games), I won't be on board with giving him Charles, McCoy, Peterson money. Based on the press confrence, I think that's where Jerry&Co. are at as well.

Here's what I'll convince myself is the plus side: We got a difference maker over a 5 year period whod could potentially be as valuable as Dez over that span. Our defense will suck, but we may be able to control the clock enough to compete with anyone. In addition, the draft is loaded at the DL spots. We could grab a DE and 1T who could help our pass rush, knock on wood. Plus, the kid will be fun as **** to watch.

Again, I don't want him at 5. I think it's a bad move that we'll come to regret if he gets hurt and/or in 5 years when it's time to move on. But, I'll try to find the positive side and enjoy the ride.

I was reading the Dallas Morning News about the Cowboys and they made a good analysis on which player is picked at #4 and the second round pick based on the #4 pick:
Option #1 - #4 Jalen Ransey pick 34 is Derrick Henry - I really like this one, This gives two players with impact immediately on defense and offense.
Option #2 - #4 Ezekiel Elliott pick 34 is Kevin Dodd - Elliott is OK but I am not sure about Dodd
Option #3 - #4 Joey Bosa pick 34 is Christian Hackenberg - These are two good players but not game changers and Hackenberg will take at less a year to become functional as Romo's backup.

 

[Philmonroe]

I think drafting a RB to run behind this line at #4 is just a complete waste of resources. However, I also think this kid will be a really good back so I can't be mad at them for adding talent to the team. I just see about 4 or 5 other positions I would try to add talent to before I thought about a RB. But once he is a Cowboy, I will be in his corner and pulling for him to be the best RB ever.

I don't get this waste of resources like we have an AP type back already. This teams most successful stretches have always (in my lifetime at least) been a dominating O line and awesome RB don't know why that's such a bad thing even if the pick is #4.

 

[Dorsett33]

Some people are acting as though we only have ONE pick in the draft. We have quite a few picks if I'm not mistaken. Zeke at #4 does not mean we can't address the defense and other needs with the second, third, and two fours and three sixth round picks. There have been some very good players picked later in the draft. But, with a talent like Zeke, who can change the game....that's pretty hard to pass up. It could be regrettable. You gotta take him! I don't know if I see anyone else in the top of that draft that could have that much of an impact than Zeke. But, I'm going to support whomever they pick. He would literally help the offense and defense.

 

[boysfanindc]

Elliot wouldn't be my first choice, but you have to admit that the model of a great RB running behind a dominant offensive line with a franchise QB and WR has traditionally been successful in Dallas whether that was the 70's, 90's or 2014.

Those teams also had a defense.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

A long time ago in a galaxy far away. He is a shell of his former self.

Was not a long time ago really. It was 2012 but regardless, that is what I believe the poster was referring to.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I concur he was the top CB in his draft and I will admit I was pretty darned excited when that trade was announced cause I knew they were going with Mo "don't practice" Claiborne. The scouts and fans had him pegged wrong. Ramsey is a top talent but the Mo experience has me very pessimistic if he is the choice.

I never really liked the trade up for Claiborne. I watched him at LSU and I didn't see what everybody else did I guess. I saw a guy who needed to be in a man to man scheme. A player with long arms who played the run pretty well and had strength to jam WRs off the line. I didn't see a do it all CB who played Zone very well. I never liked that trade up because he did not fit what we were doing at the time. JMO

 

[Craig]

If its him at 4, ill enjoy watching him. If they trade down grab a 2nd and get him, thats fine. In any case though, if they get him, i will likely need to close my account here. This place is already unbearable with threads...and the backlash from people that are completely against him will be worse.

 

[Silver N Blue]

I never really liked the trade up for Claiborne. I watched him at LSU and I didn't see what everybody else did I guess. I saw a guy who needed to be in a man to man scheme. A player with long arms who played the run pretty well and had strength to jam WRs off the line. I didn't see a do it all CB who played Zone very well. I never liked that trade up because he did not fit what we were doing at the time. JMO

I wish you would have told JJ prior to the draft.

 

[ChooChoo73]

Day after the pick I would embrace, root for and be his biggest fan. I'm adamant about drafting someone else but a cowboy is a cowboy and that's my team. My preferred draftees keep dropping. Jack, the qbs. I am a Bosa and Ramsey failed drug test or dui away from being a zeke at 4 guy but obviously Hoping for a different pick.

 

[Stash]

I love Zeke as a player. I HATE the idea of drafting a RB in the top 5. I'm trying to prepare myself for them actually doing it, though, if it comes down to it, and honestly, trying to talk myself into being okay with it. I'm not there yet.

If he is the pick, I hope we hope we give him the ball 25 times a game, 16 games a year for 5 years, then move on. I can buy the argument that RBs are worth a first round pick (not top 5) more than I buy they idea that they're worth big contracts after their rookie deal. After 400 touches a year, 2,000 over his rookie contract (never mind playoff games), I won't be on board with giving him Charles, McCoy, Peterson money. Based on the press confrence, I think that's where Jerry&Co. are at as well.

Here's what I'll convince myself is the plus side: We got a difference maker over a 5 year period whod could potentially be as valuable as Dez over that span. Our defense will suck, but we may be able to control the clock enough to compete with anyone. In addition, the draft is loaded at the DL spots. We could grab a DE and 1T who could help our pass rush, knock on wood. Plus, the kid will be fun as **** to watch.

Again, I don't want him at 5. I think it's a bad move that we'll come to regret if he gets hurt and/or in 5 years when it's time to move on. But, I'll try to find the positive side and enjoy the ride.

I'm in agreement with you. I've been outspoken against the move and presented the reasons why numerous times.

But if it happens? I'm a fan and will root for the guy to be Super Bowl MVP.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Some people are acting as though we only have ONE pick in the draft. We have quite a few picks if I'm not mistaken. Zeke at #4 does not mean we can't address the defense and other needs with the second, third, and two fours and three sixth round picks. There have been some very good players picked later in the draft. But, with a talent like Zeke, who can change the game....that's pretty hard to pass up. It could be regrettable. You gotta take him! I don't know if I see anyone else in the top of that draft that could have that much of an impact than Zeke. But, I'm going to support whomever they pick. He would literally help the offense and defense.

This is actually a sensible position. There are in fact other opportunities to address needs later in the Draft. Having said this, this is a deep RB Draft and not a very deep Edge Rusher or true Blue Chip draft. If you adopt the point of view you suggest, a better case might be made that you don't take Elliot and you draft an impact player at another position because the value at RB is much better later in the draft.

If you are not willing to acknowledge this point, then your statement about addressing needs later in the draft doesn't carry much weight IMO.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

That was a long time ago. He isn't close to the same guy.

Where is this coming from? You may be right, he may not be close to the same back but then again, you could be wrong. I've watched Morris and I don't see that he's done. I see the scheme around him change and the role in that offense change but I don't really see that it's a situation where he has fallen off a cliff. It was only 2012 that he did that. Now, if a 4 year period is what it takes for a RB to go from a Pro Bowl type performance to a scrub, then that really makes the pick of a RB at 4 that much more impractical. This angle on Morris is really a better case for why we shouldn't draft Elliot then why we should, if true.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I wish you would have told JJ prior to the draft.

Believe me I tried. I was lucky I wasn't locked up after that draft. People thought I was flat out crazy not to like him. To be honest, it was not that I didn't like him, because I actually did. I just didn't like him in our scheme and I definitely didn't like spending what we had to to move up to get him.

 

[Dorsett33]

This is actually a sensible position. There are in fact other opportunities to address needs later in the Draft. Having said this, this is a deep RB Draft and not a very deep Edge Rusher or true Blue Chip draft. If you adopt the point of view you suggest, a better case might be made that you don't take Elliot and you draft an impact player at another position because the value at RB is much better later in the draft.

If you are not willing to acknowledge this point, then your statement about addressing needs later in the draft doesn't carry much weight IMO.

I don't know how you translate my message to mean that. But, part of that message said....you don't let a talent like Zeke get away. There is NO dominant edge rusher in this draft in my opinion as a college athlete. Zeke can be our offense and defense. I don't see why it's so hard for some people to understand this. But, if my message doesn't carry weight...IN YOUR OPINION...so be it. I call it denial on your part....IN MY OPINON.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I don't know how you translate my message to mean that. But, part of that message said....you don't let a talent like Zeke get away. There is NO dominant edge rusher in this draft in my opinion as a college athlete. Zeke can be our offense and defense. I don't see why it's so hard for some people to understand this. But, if my message doesn't carry weight...IN YOUR OPINION...so be it. I call it denial on your part....IN MY OPINON.

The part that said, "You don't let a talent like Zeke get away" assumes that everybody in the organization or on this board agree with that evaluation. That's not a given. That's an opinion. The Organization, if reports are correct, believe that Ramsey is the number one player in this draft. The players want the team to draft Ramsey. The whole, "Zeke can be our offense and defense" mindset is not a given. It's an opinion and it's not all that hard to believe that some don't agree with that opinion. Financially, it's not a very sound move and the position value is not very good at 4. It's reasonable to say that it's hard to understand why people don't understand those simple facts as well.

IMO, that is exactly what your position says. If you can't see the other side and how your argument applies to the other side, just as much as it does, if not more, to drafting Zeke, then it is you, my friend who are in denial. Your argument swings both ways. If you can't see that then it's you, it's not everybody else.

That's the honest truth. Not that drafting Zeke is wrong or not drafting X player is wrong. You have to see both sides if you want to be objective on the point.

 

[Dorsett33]

The part that said, "You don't let a talent like Zeke get away" assumes that everybody in the organization or on this board agree with that evaluation. That's not a given. That's an opinion. The Organization, if reports are correct, believe that Ramsey is the number one player in this draft. The players want the team to draft Ramsey. The whole, "Zeke can be our offense and defense" mindset is not a given. It's an opinion and it's not all that hard to believe that some don't agree with that opinion. Financially, it's not a very sound move and the position value is not very good at 4. It's reasonable to say that it's hard to understand why people don't understand those simple facts as well.

IMO, that is exactly what your position says. If you can't see the other side and how your argument applies to the other side, just as much as it does, if not more, to drafting Zeke, then it is you, my friend who are in denial. Your argument swings both ways. If you can't see that then it's you, it's not everybody else.

That's the honest truth. Not that drafting Zeke is wrong or not drafting X player is wrong. You have to see both sides if you want to be objective on the point.

I don't know anything that anyone of us is saying is the honest truth. Most of it is opinion. And unless you're a player on the team that talks to everyone on the team, its you speculating because a couple of players may have said it. Just like I can say, the coaches what Zeke. It's all speculation, bro. I NEVER said drafting player X is wrong, my friend. I said you don't let a talent like Zeke get away....and you don't. Maybe your argument is because you don't want them to draft Zeke, I don't know. But the TRUTH is....the man is very talented. And as far as Ramsey goes...his stock didn't rise to what it is until the combine. The combine doesn't necessarily make you a great player. Zeke has been a man amongst boys in his short college career.

And paying him cause he's drafted at #4 is the craziest thing I've heard. Pay the man!

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I don't know anything that anyone of us is saying is the honest truth. Most of it is opinion. And unless you're a player on the team that talks to everyone on the team, its you speculating because a couple of players may have said it. Just like I can say, the coaches what Zeke. It's all speculation, bro. I NEVER said drafting player X is wrong, my friend. I said you don't let a talent like Zeke get away....and you don't. Maybe your argument is because you don't want them to draft Zeke, I don't know. But the TRUTH is....the man is very talented. And as far as Ramsey goes...his stock didn't rise to what it is until the combine. The combine doesn't necessarily make you a great player. Zeke has been a man amongst boys in his short college career.

And paying him cause he's drafted at #4 is the craziest thing I've heard. Pay the man!

The statements I made in my earlier post about the Cowboys having Ramsey as the top player on their board and the Players wanting Ramsey to be the pick are not speculation. Those two things have been reported.

Now, this last post you made, is much better. It's not nearly as much opinion presented as fact. I have no problem with anybody presenting their opinion and supporting it with honest reason. That's what you are supposed to do on a message board.

I like Elliot but I don't believe he is a 10 thousand yard back. He's not AD or Emmitt IMO. I don't believe in drafting a RB this high unless you believe he is truly transcending. I don't think he will be. A lot of people just take it for granted that if we draft Zeke, we will transform back into the 2014 Offense. I don't believe that. In fact, I am not even convinced that Garrett or Linehan want to be that kind of Offense. We could just as well see Zeke taken and us going back to throwing the ball 40 or 50 times a game. How much value does a player like Zeke have then? The point is that you can't say we have to take Zeke because he's a can't miss. We don't know that and for a lot of financial reasons and long term reasons, Elliot is not the best pick. He is probably one of the worst if you are looking at the long term for this team. It is very understandable why some would not want to do that. When somebody says a person is wrong because they can't see why Elliot is not the clear choice, that is just not right. There is a very reasonable position that supports not taking Zeke, even if he is a good player for us for a few years.

"Pay The Man" is exactly how we ended up with rosters in the past few years that had a few aging stars and no cap. Did you say Pay The Man to Greg Ellis when he wanted more money? Did you believe that we should have paid Ware? Did you believe that we should have paid Murray?

"Pay The Man" is cool but it's not very responsible in terms of managing your cap. JMO

 

[Qbert]

Sturm on the ticket said he's heard they are leaning toward Zeke even if Ramsey is there's too

 

[Dorsett33]

The statements I made in my earlier post about the Cowboys having Ramsey as the top player on their board and the Players wanting Ramsey to be the pick are not speculation. Those two things have been reported.

Now, this last post you made, is much better. It's not nearly as much opinion presented as fact. I have no problem with anybody presenting their opinion and supporting it with honest reason. That's what you are supposed to do on a message board.

I like Elliot but I don't believe he is a 10 thousand yard back. He's not AD or Emmitt IMO. I don't believe in drafting a RB this high unless you believe he is truly transcending. I don't think he will be. A lot of people just take it for granted that if we draft Zeke, we will transform back into the 2014 Offense. I don't believe that. In fact, I am not even convinced that Garrett or Linehan want to be that kind of Offense. We could just as well see Zeke taken and us going back to throwing the ball 40 or 50 times a game. How much value does a player like Zeke have then? The point is that you can't say we have to take Zeke because he's a can't miss. We don't know that and for a lot of financial reasons and long term reasons, Elliot is not the best pick. He is probably one of the worst if you are looking at the long term for this team. It is very understandable why some would not want to do that. When somebody says a person is wrong because they can't see why Elliot is not the clear choice, that is just not right. There is a very reasonable position that supports not taking Zeke, even if he is a good player for us for a few years.

"Pay The Man" is exactly how we ended up with rosters in the past few years that had a few aging stars and no cap. Did you say Pay The Man to Greg Ellis when he wanted more money? Did you believe that we should have paid Ware? Did you believe that we should have paid Murray?

"Pay The Man" is cool but it's not very responsible in terms of managing your cap. JMO

Reported by who? The media? No one on this God's green earth know if he'll be a 10k back or not. I'm willing to bet they thought the same thing about Emmitt. No one thought that we would have that kind of offense when we had Demarco. I still believe we have to take Zeke....and it's my opinion. You can't tell people what they should be opinionated on. Zeke is a can't miss back. I believe it and I'm going to continue to believe that. Well, when you pick that high in the draft....you got to pay someone unless you trade out of the pick. But when you have the pick, you pick the best player regardless of position. Zeke needs to be the pick.

 

[ConceptCoop]

The statements I made in my earlier post about the Cowboys having Ramsey as the top player on their board and the Players wanting Ramsey to be the pick are not speculation. Those two things have been reported.

Now, this last post you made, is much better. It's not nearly as much opinion presented as fact. I have no problem with anybody presenting their opinion and supporting it with honest reason. That's what you are supposed to do on a message board.

I like Elliot but I don't believe he is a 10 thousand yard back. He's not AD or Emmitt IMO. I don't believe in drafting a RB this high unless you believe he is truly transcending. I don't think he will be. A lot of people just take it for granted that if we draft Zeke, we will transform back into the 2014 Offense. I don't believe that. In fact, I am not even convinced that Garrett or Linehan want to be that kind of Offense. We could just as well see Zeke taken and us going back to throwing the ball 40 or 50 times a game. How much value does a player like Zeke have then? The point is that you can't say we have to take Zeke because he's a can't miss. We don't know that and for a lot of financial reasons and long term reasons, Elliot is not the best pick. He is probably one of the worst if you are looking at the long term for this team. It is very understandable why some would not want to do that. When somebody says a person is wrong because they can't see why Elliot is not the clear choice, that is just not right. There is a very reasonable position that supports not taking Zeke, even if he is a good player for us for a few years.

"Pay The Man" is exactly how we ended up with rosters in the past few years that had a few aging stars and no cap. Did you say Pay The Man to Greg Ellis when he wanted more money? Did you believe that we should have paid Ware? Did you believe that we should have paid Murray?

"Pay The Man" is cool but it's not very responsible in terms of managing your cap. JMO

Many in the Zeke crowd seems really binary on the subject. "Draft Zeke because it's dumb not to, or you're dumb." You can tell early in the conversation who is willing to be objective. Those who think it's the only logical option, or who can't see the risk associated with big investments in the position aren't going to come around. Kudos to you for trying though.