Finish sending the message, some players have to be cut today!

[Zaxor]

I think we all agree that Courtney Brown is on thin ice and so is Stanback.

By cutting one of them or both, you send a message to the team, you won't put up with sloppy playing or dumb mistakes or the continual penalty mistakes.

That gets the attention of the team, makes them focus more.

Who's attention Joe...False start Flo? He doesn't care... no starter or good player cares...so who are you trying to make the point to Joe.

The players already not good enough to make the team will not be on the team at the final cut.

 

[Hostile]

Curvin Richards was not cut for fumbling twice in the 1992 season finale. Those two fumbles were just the last straws of his poor tenure in Dallas.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=pearlman/080918&sportCat=nfl

Really?

From the article...

Dallas' final game of the season was a home contest against the lowly Chicago Bears. With 10:59 remaining in the fourth quarter, Dallas held a 27-0 lead that had the 63,101 fans dancing in the aisles. Needing 109 yards to surpass Pittsburgh's Barry Foster for the league rushing lead, Emmitt Smith clinched the crown with a 31-yard touchdown scamper early in the third quarter. Defensive tackle Russell Maryland scored his first career touchdown when he snagged a bobbled pitchout, rumbled 26 yards into the end zone and celebrated with a bellyflop. It was a good day. A great day. A celebratory day.


Until Curvin Richards entered the game.

In 13 carries, Richards fumbled twice. His first was returned 42 yards by Chicago lineman Chris Zorich. "Man, Jimmy was mad," says Tim Daniel, a Cowboys wide receiver. "I was standing right there when he turned to Curvin and said, point blank, 'If you fumble again, your *** is cut and you'll never carry the ball for the Dallas Cowboys again.'" Then Richards fumbled again. Johnson yanked him. As he jogged toward the sideline, Richards surely expected to be browbeaten by Johnson. Instead, the coach said the worst thing possible: absolutely nothing.


The Cowboys held on to win, 27-14, and entered the locker room with a franchise-best 13-3 record; an NFC East title; a bye week -- and a coach again on the brink of a meltdown.

Now you can maintain whatever you want about Johnson's intent.

My point stands, that is that comparing the roster cut of Curvin Richards with cutting Isaiah Stanback and Courtney Brown "right now" are not equal situations. That is the only thing I was implying and it remains the only thing I am implying. The parts in bold merely point to the fact that they amplify my point.

Cutting Curvin Richards sent a message. The Cowboys won the game. His fumbles did not cost the team a win. It was the last game of the season not a meaningless pre-season game where cuts are expected.

 

[cowboyjoe]

First, I have tried the switch theory, but I cant get it to work.
And I am not copying all of the documents, just a couple of things, so evidently something else is happening. I put in blue what I wrote,, and red what you wrote.

The situations we are facing are not similar. When Jimmy Johnson cut Curvin Richards it was not a pre-season roster move. he was cut after the 1992 season finale (that means the last game of the year) and we were on our way to the playoffs and Super Bowl XXVII.

Swing and a miss.

Next, you are missing my point, my point that I am trying to make and you keep missing, is you send a message to the team, Period! In whatever way to get the point that you won't allow sloppy playing. Whether that is cutting or releasing players, making them run extra laps, or pulling the players out of practice when they make a mistake. Its just like when Michael Irvin missed a plane flight, Jimmy had Irvin sit out the first drive on offense. Sure enough, the offense went 3 and out and Jimmy put Irvin back in the game.

But Jimmy made his point to Irvin and the team, he was in control, he wouldnt put up with players being late, sloppy playing or stupid mistakes. Just like Irvin, Aikman missed a plane flight too, Jimmy didnt wait on him.

Thats the point I am trying to make, whether or not I didnt say it the right way or not so you can understand, the point is, you send some type of message to the team, you wont put up with mistakes and sloppy football. Otherwise its simple math, like good ole wade said last year till mid season, everything is ok, dont worry. But their was problems last year, especially on special teams and the running game. So, are you saying, dont worry, the cowboys dont have to correct the silly mistakes or the penalties, they just have to go out onto the field, and everything will work out, because they show up on the field, with the star on their helmet?

I didnt say that Richards was cut in preseason either. I said Jimmy cut him. Did Jimmy Johnson cut Richards or not Hostile?

So, if Jimmy Johnson did cut Richards, and he did, Jimmy made his point to the team and got their attention.

No they don't. Roster cuts in pre-season are expected and you can bet even the players speculate with each other on who is going to get the axe or meet the Turk. There's no message.

Thats where I disagree with you, because of one thing Stanback said in an interview, he wasnt worried if he was with the cowboys or not. To me that is saying, the cowboys arent going to cut me and if they do, so what, big deal.

Are you trying to tell me that you don't want me to ever disagree with your ideas because you didn't publicly disagree with mine?

I dont mind when you disagree with me, in fact I encourage it, that always makes a good conversation, where you can state your comments and i can say mine. What I object to is when you say my comments are crap, silly I understand, because sometimes, my thoughts arent together and I ramble. I cant help that, thats a part of me, for the good or worse, thats me.

I got two words for ya...get real. Disagree with me all you want. Others do. I think the premise of this thread is ridiculous and plenty of people are shooting holes in your cheese. Swiss anyone?

They may shoot holes, but I never give up, Never! Now that part I like what you said, and to me was funny, shooting holes in my cheese. But I will never give up. Why, because its what I believe and think. Now sometimes, someone may say something to shed another light or think another way, but when my mind is made up, pretty hard to change my thinking. Its kinda like when I posted about romo and the golf issue with DC. I view it as a challenge then, to get my point over, no matter what. Or like when someone tells Jerry Jones, your doing it the wrong way, or its dumb, etc. Jerry Jones is bound and determined to prove those people wrong. No matter what. Thats me to a tee too. Why, do I not give up, even though people are shooting holes in my posts, because to me, what I think matters and its the way to help the cowboys win. So, I continue on.

 

[joseephuss]

Really?

From the article...

Now you can maintain whatever you want about Johnson's intent.

My point stands, that is that comparing the roster cut of Curvin Richards with cutting Isaiah Stanback and Courtney Brown "right now" are not equal situations. That is the only thing I was implying and it remains the only thing I am implying. The parts in bold merely point to the fact that they amplify my point.

Cutting Curvin Richards sent a message. The Cowboys won the game. His fumbles did not cost the team a win. It was the last game of the season not a meaningless pre-season game where cuts are expected.

I agree. Two completely different situations. Cutting Stanback and Brown now would in no way send a message like cutting Richard did in 1992.

Looking back I don't think Richards would have been cut had he only fumbled twice in the season finale. He had a history of being a screw up in Dallas before that day. Had he shown up to meetings on time, paid attention in those meetings and not fumbled every week in practice, then I doubt those two fumbles would have meant as much to Jimmy. I am not downplaying those two fumbles. They meant a lot, but they were not the only negative check marks on Curvin Richards' record in Dallas.

 

[dogunwo]

They would get the message alright: You are going to have to play an entire worthless preseason game against Minnesota because we wanted to scare you by parting ways with these two players.

I don't know about you, but I would be upset if we had to play Jenkins, Scandrick or Austin more than we should just because of some silly message cut of Isaiah Stanback or Courtney Brown.

 

[SMCowboy]

Next, you are missing my point, my point that I am trying to make and you keep missing, is you send a message to the team, Period! In whatever way to get the point that you won't allow sloppy playing. Whether that is cutting or releasing players, making them run extra laps, or pulling the players out of practice when they make a mistake. Its just like when Michael Irvin missed a plane flight, Jimmy had Irvin sit out the first drive on offense. Sure enough, the offense went 3 and out and Jimmy put Irvin back in the game.

But Jimmy made his point to Irvin and the team, he was in control, he wouldnt put up with players being late, sloppy playing or stupid mistakes. Just like Irvin, Aikman missed a plane flight too, Jimmy didnt wait on him.

Thats the point I am trying to make, whether or not I didnt say it the right way or not so you can understand, the point is, you send some type of message to the team, you wont put up with mistakes and sloppy football. Otherwise its simple math, like good ole wade said last year till mid season, everything is ok, dont worry. But their was problems last year, especially on special teams and the running game. So, are you saying, dont worry, the cowboys dont have to correct the silly mistakes or the penalties, they just have to go out onto the field, and everything will work out, because they show up on the field, with the star on their helmet?
I didnt say that Richards was cut in preseason either. I said Jimmy cut him. Did Jimmy Johnson cut Richards or not Hostile?

So, if Jimmy Johnson did cut Richards, and he did, Jimmy made his point to the team and got their attention.

And in your mind ripping off his head phones and yelling an Brown in the middle of the field, didn't send any sort of message.

Guess what, cutting Brown right now, or immediately after the game, will not prove a point to anyone. Because noone will at all be surprised if you cut Brown, Stanback, or Proctor. Noone expects those guys to make the team, so how is cutting someone that everyone EXPECTS to be cut anyway going to send a message?

Answer that ONE question, how is cutting someone that everyone expects to be cut anyway going to send any sort of message?

Thats where I disagree with you, because of one thing Stanback said in an interview, he wasnt worried if he was with the cowboys or not. To me that is saying, the cowboys arent going to cut me and if they do, so what, big deal.

You are letting your hatred of Stanback affect how you hear things. As has been pointed out before, what Stanback said, is true. You can't go about worrying about if you are going to be cut or not. If you play the game worrying if you will be cut next, you will not play the best that you can, because your head is elsewhere.

Keep in mind that Stanback is not ONLY playing to make the Cowboys roster, he is also playing hoping to impress other teams enough so that IF he is cut by Dallas someone else will pick him up. He knows that and EVERY single player on the Cowboys roster knows that.

They may shoot holes, but I never give up, Never! Now that part I like what you said, and to me was funny, shooting holes in my cheese. But I will never give up. Why, because its what I believe and think. Now sometimes, someone may say something to shed another light or think another way, but when my mind is made up, pretty hard to change my thinking. Its kinda like when I posted about romo and the golf issue with DC. I view it as a challenge then, to get my point over, no matter what. Or like when someone tells Jerry Jones, your doing it the wrong way, or its dumb, etc. Jerry Jones is bound and determined to prove those people wrong. No matter what. Thats me to a tee too. Why, do I not give up, even though people are shooting holes in my posts, because to me, what I think matters and its the way to help the cowboys win. So, I continue on.

I have to give you one thing, you never do give up, your points has been proven time and again to not make any since, but you still stick by it. But smart thing to do is to abandon a sinking ship, and your idea of sending a message to players by cutting guys that everyone already know's are not going to make the 53 man roster is not going to send a message to anyone.

 

[Hostile]

First, I have tried the switch theory, but I cant get it to work.
And I am not copying all of the documents, just a couple of things, so evidently something else is happening. I put in blue what I wrote,, and red what you wrote.

At the end of this section I simply closed the quote. At the beginning of the next section re-open the quote. It isn't hard. There's a part you don't want to address? Delete it and move on.

The word "quote" in brackets [ ] begins a quoted portion. The word "/quote" in brackets at the end closes it.

Try again, please. The red and blue and underlines in the middle of quoted text are maddening. It is not hard. Keep working on ti and asking question until you get it.

Next, you are missing my point, my point that I am trying to make and you keep missing, is you send a message to the team, Period! In whatever way to get the point that you won't allow sloppy playing. Whether that is cutting or releasing players, making them run extra laps, or pulling the players out of practice when they make a mistake. Its just like when Michael Irvin missed a plane flight, Jimmy had Irvin sit out the first drive on offense. Sure enough, the offense went 3 and out and Jimmy put Irvin back in the game.

Actually I simply don't believe you have a point. There's no missing it involved. You have to have one before it can be missed. Cutting players 1 or 2 days early in pre-season when cuts are made does not "send a message." It never has, it never will.

But Jimmy made his point to Irvin and the team, he was in control, he wouldnt put up with players being late, sloppy playing or stupid mistakes. Just like Irvin, Aikman missed a plane flight too, Jimmy didnt wait on him.

You're all over the place. None of this has anything to do with sending a message by cutting 2 players in the pre-season. Not one damned thing to do with it. That was the original point, it remains the point, and no amount of dancing around like a monkey on hot coals is going to change that fact.

Thats the point I am trying to make, whether or not I didnt say it the right way or not so you can understand, the point is, you send some type of message to the team, you wont put up with mistakes and sloppy football. Otherwise its simple math, like good ole wade said last year till mid season, everything is ok, dont worry. But their was problems last year, especially on special teams and the running game. So, are you saying, dont worry, the cowboys dont have to correct the silly mistakes or the penalties, they just have to go out onto the field, and everything will work out, because they show up on the field, with the star on their helmet?

Once again, cutting players in pre-season does not send a message. It never has, it never will.

I didnt say that Richards was cut in preseason either. I said Jimmy cut him. Did Jimmy Johnson cut Richards or not Hostile?

Why would you even ask me this? I mean stop for one minute and read what I said. I told you Curvin was cut in the season finale. Did you miss that? Did it go right over your head? If not, how can you even think I don't grasp the fact he was cut? Use your head for something other than to keep your ears from slamming together.

So, if Jimmy Johnson did cut Richards, and he did, Jimmy made his point to the team and got their attention.

Joe, stop before you lose what is left of your sanity. Read this and pay attention.

In pre-season (those are games that do not count) players get cut.

In season finales heading into the playoffs (highly vital games) players are NOT normally cut.

Do you see the difference? If not, heaven help you.

Thats where I disagree with you, because of one thing Stanback said in an interview, he wasnt worried if he was with the cowboys or not. To me that is saying, the cowboys arent going to cut me and if they do, so what, big deal.

Has nothing to do with the price of spam in Colorado.

I dont mind when you disagree with me, in fact I encourage it, that always makes a good conversation, where you can state your comments and i can say mine. What I object to is when you say my comments are crap, silly I understand, because sometimes, my thoughts arent together and I ramble. I cant help that, thats a part of me, for the good or worse, thats me.

The part I said was crap is trying to "send a message." You don't send a message by cutting fringe players in pre-season when cuts are made.

Let me ask you, the cuts made by the Commanders, Patriots, 49ers, and Bucs that you have posted about, what message was sent to those teams?

I guarantee you there wasn't one.

 

[cowboyjoe]

First, I liked Stanback from the start, I talked with him when he was a rookie. I had high hopes for him, but I just dont see the charge, fire and intensity from him now. I see somewhat of a laid back attitude.

I would rather go down with a sinking ship! Thats me to a tee, never give up. Again, to me it does send a message. I understand most of you saying it doesnt, thats your view point, but I disagree with it.



I have to give you one thing, you never do give up, your points has been proven time and again to not make any since, but you still stick by it. But smart thing to do is to abandon a sinking ship, and your idea of sending a message to players by cutting guys that everyone already know's are not going to make the 53 man roster is not going to send a message to anyone.[/QUOTE]

 

[Hostile]

And in your mind ripping off his head phones and yelling an Brown in the middle of the field, didn't send any sort of message.

Guess what, cutting Brown right now, or immediately after the game, will not prove a point to anyone. Because noone will at all be surprised if you cut Brown, Stanback, or Proctor. Noone expects those guys to make the team, so how is cutting someone that everyone EXPECTS to be cut anyway going to send a message?

Answer that ONE question, how is cutting someone that everyone expects to be cut anyway going to send any sort of message?



You are letting your hatred of Stanback affect how you hear things. As has been pointed out before, what Stanback said, is true. You can't go about worrying about if you are going to be cut or not. If you play the game worrying if you will be cut next, you will not play the best that you can, because your head is elsewhere.

Keep in mind that Stanback is not ONLY playing to make the Cowboys roster, he is also playing hoping to impress other teams enough so that IF he is cut by Dallas someone else will pick him up. He knows that and EVERY single player on the Cowboys roster knows that.



I have to give you one thing, you never do give up, your points has been proven time and again to not make any since, but you still stick by it. But smart thing to do is to abandon a sinking ship, and your idea of sending a message to players by cutting guys that everyone already know's are not going to make the 53 man roster is not going to send a message to anyone.

Great post.

 

[BigDFan5]

It's true that Jimmy didn't cut many big name stars with the Cowboys.

No he didnt cut ANY, NONE, Zilch, Nada

 

[cowboyjoe]

I have to give you one thing, you never do give up, your points has been proven time and again to not make any since, but you still stick by it. But smart thing to do is to abandon a sinking ship, and your idea of sending a message to players by cutting guys that everyone already know's are not going to make the 53 man roster is not going to send a message to anyone

All hands abandon ship, the ship is sinking, but the captain always goes down with the ship!

 

[SMCowboy]

Again, to me it does send a message. I understand most of you saying it doesnt, thats your view point, but I disagree with it.

Can you explain HOW it sends a message?

EVERYONE expects Brown, Stanback, Proctor, to be cut. So cutting them will not surprise ANYONE, except MAYBE those players. But I wouldn't be surprised if those players even expect to eventually be cut.

The ONLY way to send a message is if you do something that is NOT expected. Jimmy sent a message by benching Irvin for the first series, because benching your star player is not expected. Jimmy sent the message by jumping on the players on the plane because it was not expected. Jimmy sent a message by leaving Aikman behind when he missed a plain because it was not expected.

Doing what is expected, NEVER sends a message, because people will always shrug it off, because they EXPECT it to happen.

 

[Chuck 54]

Stanback...may get cut, but unlikely it will be in the first two cuts today or tomorrow...he'll be one of the last to go.

Brown...I'll be surprised if he gets cut at all. He played fairly well last season when called upon, and he can play CB or S in a pinch. I don't think one preseason game will decide his fate when they have a larger body of work to use in evaluating him.

Proctor....his body of work screams for him to be cut.

The first two will probably be nobodies that only the most alert fan even knows is currently on the training camp roster...the others will be cut later in the week.

What happens with all the young guys who are looking at missing a few weeks will be most interesting to me.

Still, all in all, we've been very very fortunate to come out of training camp, and hopefully preseason, with all of our starters and most of the immediate backups ready to roll on opening day.

 

[cowboyjoe]

The part I said was crap is trying to "send a message." You don't send a message by cutting fringe players in pre-season when cuts are made.

Let me ask you, the cuts made by the Commanders, Patriots, 49ers, and Bucs that you have posted about, what message was sent to those teams?

I guarantee you there wasn't one.

First, I dont know what happened in most of those games, except for the 49ers game. So, I dont know if a player made a mistake or not.

I still believe though to my dying days, you send a message to a team, in whatever way. By cutting a player, or releasing him, or trading him. Other ways are you work the players harder in practice, and when one player jumps offside or holds, you either make the whole offensive line for example run extra laps.

Thats a standard in football, school, way of life, eventually the other persons on the team or at work or at school are going to get together and let that person know he had better pull his weight, or they will see to it themselves.

Thats my point, by sending a message. You dont let up, you keep your foot on the team, and your in control as head coach. If you dont do anything, the problems only get worse.

Besides, if it was silly as you say it is Hostile, how come this is the most viewed and commented post in awhile? Has over 2200 views, best I remember.

 

[Hostile]

First, I dont know what happened in most of those games, except for the 49ers game. So, I dont know if a player made a mistake or not.

I still believe though to my dying days, you send a message to a team, in whatever way. By cutting a player, or releasing him, or trading him. Other ways are you work the players harder in practice, and when one player jumps offside or holds, you either make the whole offensive line for example run extra laps.

Thats a standard in football, school, way of life, eventually the other persons on the team or at work or at school are going to get together and let that person know he had better pull his weight, or they will see to it themselves.

Thats my point, by sending a message. You dont let up, you keep your foot on the team, and your in control as head coach. If you dont do anything, the problems only get worse.

Besides, if it was silly as you say it is Hostile, how come this is the most viewed and commented post in awhile? Has over 2200 views, best I remember.

Yeah, a looming deadline for a roster maximum size produces cuts, and by making those cuts it "sends a message."

Sometimes threads are viewed because of an ongoing debate. It doesn't make the topic smart. Want proof? Search for old threads about Quincy vs. Hutch.

Nice try patting yourself on the back. It doesn't change one thing.

 

[SMCowboy]

I still believe though to my dying days, you send a message to a team, in whatever way. By cutting a player, or releasing him, or trading him. Other ways are you work the players harder in practice, and when one player jumps offside or holds, you either make the whole offensive line for example run extra laps.

Thats a standard in football, school, way of life, eventually the other persons on the team or at work or at school are going to get together and let that person know he had better pull his weight, or they will see to it themselves.

Thats my point, by sending a message. You dont let up, you keep your foot on the team, and your in control as head coach. If you dont do anything, the problems only get worse.

How is a message sent? By doing what people do NOT expect. All players know how the preseason works, you don't play well, you get cut. Heck, in the preseason even if we would cut Demarcus Ware, that will NOT send a message to anyone, well maybe it would send a message to the rest of the league that we are STUPID. But it wouldn't send a message to the players.

If you read the link that was posted about the cutting of Curtis Richards, the cutting of Richards didn't send a message to any players. None of the star players according to that link feared Jimmy Johnson because they KNEW he wouldn't touch them, they KNEW the only people he picked on where the guys that were "dispensable".

Also, the issue with penalties goes back to Bill Parcells, it is NOT a Wade Phillips issue.

Are you now going to say that Bill Parcells wasn't tough enough on the players then? The ONLY way to "fix" Flozell Adams false starts is to not play him. Flozell Adams has had issues with false starts his entire career, it is what you get with him, cutting Stanback or Proctor, or Brown is NOT going to fix Flozell Adams false starts. If cutting someone was going to do any good with that, his false starts, they would be a think of the past long ago, since being a 12 year veteran, he has seen a TON of players cut.

We have some mistake prone players, do I like it, absolutely NOT. But, I don't have any misinformed ideas, that cutting anyone is going to stop Flozell Adams false starts, or the like is insane.

 

[BigDFan5]

Besides, if it was silly as you say it is Hostile, how come this is the most viewed and commented post in awhile? Has over 2200 views, best I remember.

Because like me, everyone is clicking the link to watch you get your *** handed to you.

I slow down for car wrecks too

Why arent any of the "2200" views speaking up and backing up your "point"

 

[DeaconBlues]

First, I dont know what happened in most of those games, except for the 49ers game. So, I dont know if a player made a mistake or not.

I still believe though to my dying days, you send a message to a team, in whatever way. By cutting a player, or releasing him, or trading him. Other ways are you work the players harder in practice, and when one player jumps offside or holds, you either make the whole offensive line for example run extra laps.

Thats a standard in football, school, way of life, eventually the other persons on the team or at work or at school are going to get together and let that person know he had better pull his weight, or they will see to it themselves.

Thats my point, by sending a message. You dont let up, you keep your foot on the team, and your in control as head coach. If you dont do anything, the problems only get worse.

Besides, if it was silly as you say it is Hostile, how come this is the most viewed and commented post in awhile? Has over 2200 views, best I remember.

The only message sent is that the league mandated a 77 member squad to 75, and a week later, to 53.

That's not a message, that's just math. Somebody's gotta go.

Cut Flo - message.

Cut Choice - message.

Cut Brown, or Stanback or Proctor - math, because its likely already expected.

 

[Avery]

Saturday is going to be an unpleasant day for many folks.

I would expect us to sign a few people from other teams and not keep some of our fringe guys.

 

[DeaconBlues]

Newsflash!!! Dallas sends message:

OT Andre Douglas has been cut.



Nope, I never heard of him either . . .